Mercurious
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Little Things You Don't Like About Led Zeppelin?
Mercurious replied to MortSahlFan's topic in Led Zeppelin Newbies
White Summer's not LOng enough!!! Seriously, the two Willie Dixon covers on the first album are everything the critics said they were. I can enjoy "I Can't Quit You" live but cringe through "You Shook Me." There. I said it. Why put two Dixon covers on the first album? One can only speculate, and no one (journalists, etc) has ever asked why? Was there a business arrangement between Grant/Page and Chess records, where Dixon worked as studio manager? Did the Yardbirds owe Chess money? THere had to be a reason, unless Page simply wanted to showcase Plant's over-the-top wailing in two different keys. I don't understand, probably better off not knowing. -
Hey, Bobby was Kenneth Anger's Lucifer well before Bobby became Manson's pal. Biggest mistake Bobby Beausoleil ever made was ditching Kenneth Anger, and no doubt that goes through his head every day he's looking at another lousy tray of San Quentin cuisine. Just sayin'. Great to hear that Jimmy's counter-suing over this frivolous lawsuit. The damage to his reputation through all this was immense, and there's so much bullshit out in the world now because of it, right down to the "Stairway" written at Bron-yr-aur misinformation that all started in Malofiy's ridiculously flawed brief. It was just a big ball of shit that kept spinning around in the web-o-sphere for months, most of it aimed at the guitar player who is the greatest composer of his generation. So things like this aren't supposed to happen - some judge at some point in the legal system usually puts a stop to frivolous lawsuits brought by ethically vacant lawyers, but not in this case. Don't know how successful the counter-suit might be, but Jimmy should make every effort in the aftermath to at least get some headlines spinning his way.
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I was really surprised recently to find out that Kenneth Anger is still a live. 89 years old.
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Sammy Hagar & The Circle (Anthony/Johnson/Bonham)
Mercurious replied to The Pagemeister's topic in Pre / Post-Zeppelin Forum
Yuck. Jason can do better, much much better. Cripes, eye need a drummer. Noise band - heavy psyche/skronk, experimental. Jason, if you're out there, the gig is yours if you want it. -
It's so pathetic. four $@% notes that aren't played the same way, don't sound very similar and go off in different directions. This whole thing is an unholy farce, except maybe for this great discussion we've been having. I just re-read through, and this thread has been quite a good read. Thank you everyone!!
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Well, the jury also ruled that access was possible, then asked to hear the music again, and ruled that Page didn't steal anything from Spirit. Everyone arrived at the same place, except maybe the Wolfe trust and their money-grubbing, attention seeking lawyer.
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The details of the jury ruling were reported as the facts at hand by the LA TImes, the newspaper of record involved here. As it was the news story that went out on the the LA Times/NY Times wire service (not an opinion piece or editorial, not something appearing in Rolling Stone or on TV) there should not have been conjecture in the reported facts of the verdict. http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-led-zeppelin-copyright-20160623-snap-story.html And - this from our favorite reporter at the trial: Pamela Chelin @PamelaChelin Jun 15 Jimmy Page has testified that he owns 4329 records and 5882 CDs. Pamela Chelin @PamelaChelin Jun 15 Page says on the stand that he has said before that he likes the band Spirit but "I mean I've liked a lot of bands to be honest with you."
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Just playing Devil's Advocate, here - Some points to why members are sticky about Page and Plant's recollections: 1) The jury "didn't buy" Led Zep's arguments that they did not have access, according to LA Times. 2) In an interview from the early years, Page was quoted talking about how much he liked Spirit. 3) Jimmy doesn't just own the debut Spirit, but 3 or 4 other spirit records. No proof was submitted as to when he obtained the records, though, as you mentioned. But none of that is relevant. A jury of eight has decided that "Taurus" isn't similar to "Stairway", and prior to that the judge ruled that those common notes could not be the basis of copyright infringement. "Taurus" is an insignificant and incomplete piece of album filler, nothing more. Page may have heard it some point or other, he can't remember, but he certainly didn't steal it.
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I really don't think he's being less than truthful about the music. However, he is a genius in so many respects and I suspect he knows where every book and record he owns came from, including the Spirit record, which he probably listened to at some point, but maybe not. "Taurus" just isn't a very interesting piece (it's so incomplete), and there was nothing to learn from "Fresh Garbage", based on what he's playing in those live shows. When he's quoting Jeff Beck in the "Bolero" section of HMMT, he doesn't even play the lick the same way Beck does. Jimmy can't help but be original, it seems to me, which is one reason he's so fascinating. And in the end, isn't this was what burns the Wolfe trust? What Jimmy Page plays throughout the history of Zep just doesn't sound like it owes much of anything to any music that came before. And cheers to that
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Nahh, they didn't believe him (LA Times reported that) yet still ruled that the music he wrote was untouchable. We all know he had access -- he owns five Spirit records and the "Fresh Garbage" connection sealed it. But these eight beautiful people on the jury decided that Jimmy Page's work was unique and wonderful and that no one in their right mind should have any claim on it. Music won yesterday, and one can only hope that the world will be better because of it. We cannot underestimate the importance of the precedence set yesterday with this decision. Amazing really, how much this means for all musicians moving forward.
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LA Times report: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-led-zeppelin-copyright-20160623-snap-story.html 'Jurors rejected the claim of infringement. But they believed the plaintiffs’ argument that the estate of Wolfe, a.k.a. Randy California, was the rightful holder of the copyright on “Taurus,” a claim that Zeppelin’s team disputed. They also did not buy the defense team’s argument that Page and Plant had not had reasonable opportunity to have heard “Taurus” before they wrote “Stairway to Heaven.” Michael Skidmore, a trustee of Wolfe’s estate who brought the case, said they lost on the issue of the “extrinsic test” of similarity: whether the two musical compositions share enough of the same elements for one song to be judged “substantially similar” to another.'
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Another ugly article in Rolling Stone, including a post to some damning vid on youtube, much of it ill-informed BS. Given the length of the article, much of it had to be written before the verdict, which does not seem to be the one they expected. (I say "they" because it's now a different writer than Matt Diehl on the case.) It goes quickly from a straight news tone up top to a lengthy retrying of the case from the plaintiff's perspective. - Where is David Fricke when we need him? http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/led-zeppelin-prevail-in-stairway-to-heaven-lawsuit-20160623?page=2
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Yeah that was really confusing, and the bad writing in Rolling Stone by Matt Diehl mashed that up even further. I can kinda remember thinking long ago that it might have been started or inspired at Bron-Yr-Aur, but that was just romantic imagery on my part -- I don't remember ever reading that, not even from Stephen Davis. "There's a feeling I get when I look to the west, and my spirit is crying for leaving" was said by Plant to be inspired by Wales, but the fact that Page brought the music in and introduced it to the band at Headley Grange was made pretty clear in the many books about Led Zep and Page. It goes hand in hand with the legend of Plant's "automatic writing" experience while Page was teaching the arrangement to Jones -- so how did the story get moved from Headley Grange to Wales? Information, it seems, just isn't what it used to be, not in today's media culture.
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Eggzellent!!!
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I agree 100%. To think otherwise is to say that a formula 1 race car and a beat up Pinto are one and the same because they both contain a certain ignition technology. Jake Holmes is the only person who ever had a reasonable claim against Jimmy Page, and even Holmes agreed that his claim is extremely limited from an artistic perspective.
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Wait a minute. You're the poster that suggested I was being naive last week for expressing similar doubts about any connection between "Fresh Garbage" and "Taurus". I've never thought this suit was anything but frivolous and should have been tossed by Klausner before this massive waste of time of a trial, but we all know the jury is wondering why Page can't remember ever saying how much he liked Spirit, or why in the world he owns four or five Spirit records. "Fresh Garbage" is not "Taurus", but it's no a red herring. if we're wondering what there is for the jury to talk about, this question of access via "Fresh Garbage" is certainly it -- but I'm far too biased in favor of Jimmy Page to be a proper devil's advocate.
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My bad, I should have been a little less fuzzy
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Invert the meaning, or flip it -- Proximity was the whole "they played with us, we toured US together, they went to our shows," that sort of thing. They didn't even establish that they were ever in the same room together in Denver in 1968, so ... proximity is out. Similarity is out, too, because the judge ruled that those notes can't be copyrighted. So there were three issues at start -- two of those are out, leaving only the access issue, which Led Zep labelled "speculative" in the motion to dismiss filed on Monday.
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Same thing we've been discussing since last week - access via their use of the killer "Fresh Garbage" baseline in the "As Long As I Have You" medley. A lengthy deliberation is definitely not good for Led Zep. There were three issues when the trial started, right? Proximity, Access and Similarity. Now there is only one -- Access, but one would have to make a speculative leap to get there because "Fresh Garbage", while on the same side of the record as "Taurus", is not "Taurus". From a jury perspective I think it's worth discussing for at least a little while before make a decision, yes? -- though after an hour or so, I can't imagine that being good for Zep. On another note: Doesn't the name Malofiy mean "bad seed" or "bad spirit" or something like that?
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Well, it's 4:30 pm in LA - time for the court to close and the jury to start thinking about what they're going to eat for dinner. Having sat through all of this, I doubt any of them will want to decide anything before getting their last supper. Eat first decide later, get home in time to catch most of the Dodgers game.
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I think you nailed it. And the answers to those questions are: 1) Never confirmed, 2) Yes, 3) No and 4) Hell no. Many LA Latinos don't even speak Spanish all that great, and those folks are certainly in the demographic that would be voting consistently and in the pool to be called for jury duty.
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Does anybody know what Magic Mike looks like?
Mercurious replied to Eman the Epic's topic in Led Zeppelin Live
True. The vast majority -- read nearly all -- suicides and ODs are not reported and the circumstances of the persons demise are almost NEVEr posted in the obit, if there is one. "Died unexpectedly" is often the preferred language. If anyone has Lexis-Nexus you might be able to find something, if you know where the alleged "Magic Mike" and his mom lived. -
Cool. I hadn't seen his name brought up to this point. It sounds like he didn't help the plaintiffs very much. Found a good clean link without all the flash crap on Rolling Stone's webpages at Courthouse News Service - very objective writing and tone as well. http://www.courthousenews.com/2016/06/15/led-zeppelin-copyright-trial-hinges-on-access.htm
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"Fresh Garbage" and "Taurus" are both on Side 1 of the eponymous Spirit debut album. "Fresh Garbage" is track one; "Taurus" is track #4. I can believe Jimmy never heard "Taurus" or did and just doesn't remember it -- but imagine the look on his face as he's standing there with his son-in-law, looking at the label as he moves toward the turntable; it had to be something along the lines of "aww shit". I can believe 100%, however, that whomever in Led Zeppelin knew "Fresh Garbage" and introduced it to the rest of the band, may have only listened to the one track, and then maybe only as far as the middle section where Spirit goes into the Coltrane-esque thing. I can see lifting the needle there and putting it back to the beginning, doing that a few times, getting the bass line down and then reaching for the James Brown record. Led Zep is only interested in the bass line, nothing more on the track. But imagine explaining that to the jury, then having to sit there and wait for their verdict, knowing in your gut that they probably didn't buy it.
