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Everything posted by tmtomh
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Unless you have two accounts here or the admins deleted the original first post in this thread, you're not the OP; Flares has the first post here. Your Titanic and happy meal jokes don't make any sense in this context. Your "tamborine slightly louder in the mix" comment is silly, and doesn't acknowledge that right at the outset of my comment I agreed that many of the tracks are indeed of little value. And so your claim, via the WIC analogy, that I actually know the companion material is lame but am trying to rationalize that it's better, is both inaccurate and condescending. I get that it's easier to argue against the view you would prefer others have, than to argue against what they actually write. You are welcome to your opinion, but you are not welcome to mine.
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Good point about IS and GP - agree, especially about GP.
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I disagree. Yes, the casual fan is not going to be interested in many of the companion tracks. And I agree some tracks are fairly pointless, providing very minor variations (e.g. Rock and Roll, Kashmir). And I agree that the companion-disc versions of Fool in the Rain, All My Love, and I'm Gonna Crawl on ITTOD sound terrible and it's an embarrassment that Page included them. But having revisited all 67 of the companion tracks (excluding the live Paris show companion to Zep I), my argument is that about half of them - just over 30 - are very worthwhile. I'm sympathetic to the argument that they could have released the best companion tracks on a single 3-CD set - and if they had, I am confident many naysayers would've changed their tune. But even so, these tracks are available inexpensively on CD - when they came out the Deluxe CDs could be had for as little as $1 or $2 more than the album-only CDs. Not to mention the companion tracks always have been available a la carte for $1.29 or so from the online music download sites. So I don't think how they organized them or priced them is a problem. At any rate, here are the tracks I think are valuable, and here's a key to my reasons for each one. Would be very interested in others' perspectives. Key to Reasons for Inclusion on the List: Previously unreleased (either totally unreleased, or never officially released) Significantly or totally different version, take, or mix Better sound than prior masterings Instrumental version that's interesting and/or benefits from removal of vocal Similar to album version but with better or interestingly different sonics or mix Zep II Ramble On (rough mix with cold ending) (2) (totally different feel from the album version) La La (1) Zep III Since I've Been Loving You (first take) (2) (totally different take) Bathroom Sound (4) That's the Way (rough mix with dulcimer) (2) (totally different version, and at original speed/pitch Jennings Farm Blues (1) Key to the Highway/Trouble in Mind (1) Zep IV The Battle of Evermore (4) Stairway to Heaven (5) Going to California (4) Houses of the Holy The Song Remains the Same (instrumental with guitar overdubs) (2, 4) (this has been a grail for many hardcore fans for years, and great to have without the sped-up helium vocals) The Rain Song (rough mix) (5, and also necessary to pair with TSRTS) Over the Hills and Far Away (4) No Quarter (4) (great to have without the slowed-down quaalude vocals) Physical Graffiti Brandy and Coke (Trampled Under Foot) (2 or 5) Sick Again (early version) (2) (a revelation) Houses of the Holy (rough mix) (5) Presence 10 Ribs & all/Carrot Pod Pod (Pod) (1) (Could include the alt. vocal version of Royal Orleans too, but it's horrid so I didn't ) In Through the Out Door In the Evening (rough mix) (2) The Epic (Carouselambra) (5) Coda If It Keeps on Raining (When the Levee Breaks) (2) Bonzo's Montreux (mix in progress) (2, 5) (better than the album version) Baby Come on Home (3) Sugar Mama (1) (different mix and better sound than the bootleg version too) Hey, Hey, What Can I Do (3) Four Hands (Four Sticks) (Bombay) (1) (grail for many hardcore fans) Friends (Bombay) (1) (grail for many hardcore fans) St. Tristan's Sword (1) (epic grail) Desire (The Wanton Song) (2) Bring It On Home (rough mix) (2) (totally different than album versions; a revelation) Walter's Walk (instrumental) (4) (great to have without the 1982 vocals) Everybody Makes It Through (In the Light) (2)
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BBC sessions deluxe out September 16!!!!
tmtomh replied to achillestand's topic in Led Zeppelin Reissues
Do you mean the "It's Your Thing" vocal snippet from the final 1969 performance? If so, yes, still missing. -
BBC sessions deluxe out September 16!!!!
tmtomh replied to achillestand's topic in Led Zeppelin Reissues
It's all subjective of course, but the EVSD generally gets praise for the '69 sets, but not the '71 sets. So I would say sound quality wise, this new release certainly is better than EVSD for the '71 show. However, Whole Lotta Love is edited, losing three bits from the melody, a total of 6 minutes (same edits as on the original 1997 official release). The best combo of good sound and a (nearly) complete Whole Lotta Love is the Japanese FM/pre-FM source that circulates here and there. It's got one minute cut but otherwise is complete. Edited, same as with the original 1997 official release. -
BBC sessions deluxe out September 16!!!!
tmtomh replied to achillestand's topic in Led Zeppelin Reissues
My booklet is fine too (purchased from Amazon US). RE the store display - or lack thereof - my understanding is that digital physical media, i.e. CDs, SACDs, etc., are still very popular in Japan, moreso than in the US and Europe. So I don't think you're going to find anything like that HMV Japan display in the West. As for the sound, I have gone from mildly pleased to overjoyed as I've listened to this new mastering. The clarity is unparalleled, and all the sonic problems with the original 1997 John Astley mastering have are gone - no screechy, piercing high end, no noise reduction, more bass, and much better definition and instrumental separation, particularly of Bonham's drums. For me, the album is now so much fun to listen to, whereas before I never could get into it. I thought maybe the early '69 performances were too rough for me, or perhaps the BBC tapes were just engineered strangely. But no, it turns out it was just sucky mastering that was standing in the way. Finally, when I first saw the bonus disc track listing, I though, "Geez, do we really need a 4th and 5th version of Communication Breakdown?!?" But I must admit, these are my two favorite bonus tracks. When you put all the tracks in their true chronological session order, it turns out the newly released versions of this song are the first and last songs Zep ever played for the BBC. The first one starts things out much better than You Shook Me does IMHO. And the last one is a scorching encore that ends things for the '71 show on a very different note than Thank You does. I've ripped all the tracks and renumbered them in iTunes so they play in their true order (excluding the 3 shortwave radio-based tracks - too disruptive sonically for me), and I've listened to them that way several times, all the way through. Phenomenal. EDIT: I agree with sixpense - the feedback so far on the vinyl version has been universally positive - flat, centered, quiet pressings. I also agree about the BBC engineers playing with the levels. It's especially apparent, and irritating on How Many More Times. That said, I think they did a great job overall, especially considering that Zep was by all accounts the loudest band they'd ever had to accommodate at the time. By comparison, look at how the engineers handled the October 10 '69 Paris show that's on the Zep I reissue companion disc - the levels and mix are up and down and all over the place throughout most of the show. -
Are you referring to the 09 14 1971 Berkeley show? If so, it is indeed one of the best.
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BBC sessions deluxe out September 16!!!!
tmtomh replied to achillestand's topic in Led Zeppelin Reissues
Great news - I've already pre-ordered the CD version at Amazon. Some things to be aware of, however: New material all is grouped on CD 3 (and I guess LP 4) - that likely means the previously released tracks will not have their edits restored, for example probably still will be several minutes cut out of the 1971 Whole Lotta Love, and probably still will have that 10 seconds of "It's Your Thing" cut out of one of the 1969 versions of Communication Breakdown One web site says the three "lost songs," from '69, including Sunshine Woman, have been restored from the AM radio recording that circulates among collectors. In other words, these three tracks will be in mono, and the sound quality will be noticeably inferior to the other tracks (which is likely why they not only are on CD 3, but at the end of it). I am a little concerned that, so far, there's been no specific info about the remastering process. Are these new digital transfers from the original BBC tapes? Or are these new masterings from the raw 1997 digital files? Or are these merely tweaked/EQ'd versions of the previously mastered 1997 version? -
They jury found that Zep "had access" to Taurus. The elements of the case did not require the plaintiff to prove that Page or Plant definitely heard Taurus; nor was the jury required to say if they actually think P&P heard Taurus, and if so, how or where they heard it. So the jury's ruling simply says that Page and/or Plant reasonably could have heard Taurus. I believe the reason for this is that cases like this do not focus on whether the defendants actually heard the song, because that's nearly impossible to prove or disprove in most cases. So all that matters is if they did or did not "have access" to it. If they didn't have access, then even if the songs sounded the same, the defendants would win because the similarity would be purely accidental. If on the other hand they did have access, then the question becomes whether or not the songs sound the same. If the songs sound the same, and the defendant had access to the song, then the defendant loses, regardless of any evidence or lack of evidence about exactly where or when the defendant heard the song. I believe that's why George Harrison lost the My Sweet Lord case - the song was found to be substantially similar, and even though he maintained he didn't consciously rip it off, he was found to have "unconsciously" copied it because it was determined that he had access to it - that he reasonably could have heard it.
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Lots of great suggestions in this thread, especially 6-11-77 which is (mostly) available in nice soundboard quality. But for me it's TSRTS original version, hands-down. I also think that soundtrack has the best live versions of The Song Remains the Same and The Rain Song, and one of the best live Stairways too. For such a maligned performance, it certainly has it's fair share of excellent versions!
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the "BLAST OFF" solo in "IN THE EVENING"
tmtomh replied to z1inspector's topic in Led Zeppelin Master Forum
The Detroit/Auburn Hills one from April '95 is great - and it sounds among the best because it's a multitrack mixdown that was originally considered for a CD-single/EP release - there are 4 or 5 tracks from that show available in great sound quality (slightly light on the bass, but that's easily fixed with a little EQ). What I love about the original studio version, though, is that it's not a simple "blast off" like these live versions (which also are great). Page is sort of hit-hit-hitting the whammy bar in the studio version, so there's the sound of multiple impacts, like the whole thing is about to fall apart, but doesn't. It's inspired.- 79 replies
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I'm much better versed on the audio than the video. Some recommendations for audio: 1995 04 01 Auburn Hills (Detroit) - great-sounding multitrack mixdown exists of about five of the songs from this show1995 05 19/20 Oakland/San Jose - very nice 1995 performances. 5 19 is thought to be a slightly better performance and exists in a fantastic sounding audience recording. 5 20 exists in a similarly good-sounding AUD, as well as a mono soundboard - but by far the best is a Westwood One source for an FM broadcast. Only covers 11 of the songs, but by far the best-sounding, fantastic1995 06 25 Glastonbury - a shorter, festival set, but sounds great, and kicks ass. Either a professional mix or a soundboard, I forget which. The best-sounding version I've heard is from a DVD that includes video.1995 09 29 Albuquerque/10 03 Irvine Meadows - Two great shows in the Western US. I think many fans prefer 9 29, but I favor 10 03, partially because of the sound.1996 02 13, 15 and 17 Japan - Fantastic Japan run, these are the three shows that exist in SBD quality. These shows include the aforementioned Tea for One performance, as well as a stupendous version of The Rain Song. My favorite is the final show on the 17th, but all three are great. They are available in excellent, though very slightly dry, soundboard quality - but my favorites are fan-made soundboard-audience matrix versions. You can't go wrong with these three dates in virtually any format.1998 03 25 Shepherd's Bush Empire (London) - opening show of the 1998 tour. Most folks feel the later shows on this tour are better, and it's true that Page was in his best form since 1973 during the later '98 shows. But this one is still great IMHO, and available in very good sound quality. In fact, three tracks are available in full official-release quality on the Japanese CD max-single of "Shining in the Light." The sound quality is phenemonal.1998 03 30 Paris - an FM radio source of a very energetic show. Source is a bit compressed (because it's an off the air recording and FM stations always use compressors), but IMHO well worth it.1998 08 23 Cologne - a festival performance but pretty much a full-length set. Also available in video. Great sounding soundboard - not official release quality but close. Fantastic performance - this is the show most folks point to when they argue that late 1998 saw Page playing his best guitar in 25 years.1998 09 23 Las Vegas - I would rank this just below Cologne in performance and sound quality, but still excellent.1998 10 01 New Orleans - I can't remember if this is an FM broadcast recording or a pre-FM soundboard. But it's a great, and somewhat overlooked, show. There are a couple of versions of this (based on different FM recordings I guess), and some are much duller sounding than others. The best-sounding one is very good indeed.1998 12 10 Paris - a very brief set as part of an Amnesty International benefit show, and P & P's last show. There's an official DVD, and the soundtrack is excellent sonically. I think their mini-set from this show is great. If I had to pick the top one from each year, I guess I'd choose 1995 10 03 Irvine Meadows; 1996 02 17 Japan; and 1998 8 23 Cologne. Hope this helps!
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I love the companion material, but I too can see how some folks wouldn't find it very interesting. I would note that Page and Plant actually are in agreement on the factual level: they seem to agree these are bits and pieces of what they were doing at the time. The difference is that Page views this as "a portal" into the process of Led Zeppelin, while Plant views it as "not particularly relevant." That's just a reflection of each man's level of interest in revisiting Zep at this time. The reason I think the companion material is great is this: For $1 to $3 extra per album. you get a companion CD. So at the end of the day, for a grand total of about $20, you get at least 3 full CDs' worth of great stuff - including never before released alt. takes of Since I've Been Loving You, Sick Again, Bring It on Home and The Wanton Song; St. Tristan's Sword; the Bombay tracks; an instrumental The Song Remains the Same with never before heard guitar parts; a completely unexpected additional track from the Zep I sessions and one from the Presence sessions; and a never before released blues track from the Zep III sessions. And you get a 4th CD with a live 1969 show on it. If Zep had released such a set - a 4-CD set with those outtakes, plus the Paris concert - for $20, every Zep fan would be throwing $20 bills at their computer screens to buy it, and would be saying, "This is the most amazing thing ever!"
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I listened again today, and I think I finally heard an intonation/word pronunciation I associate with Plant, near the end of the track. So I've moved into the "I think it is indeed Plant" camp.
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Thanks for this - I saw mention of this somewhere in the last day or two. It would be cool to hear those tapes in proper sound quality.
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Walking Into Clarksdale - Rediscovered
tmtomh replied to One Symbol's topic in Pre / Post-Zeppelin Forum
I agree Burning Up is a problem track. I also don't like Upon a Golden Horse. But for me, the biggest issue is that the track order just doesn't work. I recently made my own version, removing the above two songs, adding in Whiskey from the Glass (Japan edition bonus track) and The Window (b-side to Most High single), and rearranging everything as follows: Sons of Freedom House of Love When the World Was Young Heart in Your Hand Most High Please Read the Letter Shining in the Light Blue Train Walking into Clarksdale The Window When I Was a Child Whiskey from the Glass It works so much better than the album as released. The first time I tried it this way, I ended up listening to it all the way through, twice. And since then I've listened to it more times than I did from 1998-2014 combined. -
What show or live song are you listening to now?
tmtomh replied to Misfit's topic in Led Zeppelin Live
Hope this isn't out of order for this thread, but I figure it's close enough: http://www.discogs.com/Jimmy-Page-Robert-Plant-Shining-In-The-Light/release/5792582 Japan-only version of this single from the "Walking into Clarksdale" era, includes three professionally mixed tracks from their excellent March 25, 1998 Shepherd's Bush show - the album title track, plus How Many More Times and No Quarter. The sound is spectacular, and the performance is just as good! -
What show or live song are you listening to now?
tmtomh replied to Misfit's topic in Led Zeppelin Live
The Song Remains the Same, original 1976 mix/tracks, Classic Records 45rpm version. Sounds fantastic. -
1977 Soundboards...which do you do you think is the best?
tmtomh replied to Nutrocker's topic in Led Zeppelin Live
I have a similar view to most here so far - but based on folks' comments, I would say I rank 5/30 a closer 2nd to Fort Worth than some others. At any rate, I guess I'd rank them 5/22, followed closely by 5/30, then 4/27 then 5/25 - and I agree 5/28 would be last. If what we have of 6/11 is a fair representation of the whole show (which of course is NEVER a safe bet when it comes to '77 shows), then it would probably become #2 or #3 in my book. If we throw Seattle in, though, that would probably become last. Yuk. Fort Worth's performance is very good - but it also doesn't hurt that it's the best-sounding '77 soundboard to date as well. Of course, if 4/28 or any of the June NYC or LA-area shows surface as soundboards, almost all of them will vault to the top of the list. -
Agreed - it's an honorable profession filled with dedicated people. It has its bad apples just like the rest of humanity - but probably fewer than many other professions.
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What show or live song are you listening to now?
tmtomh replied to Misfit's topic in Led Zeppelin Live
Disc 2 of the DVD-Audio version of How the West Was Won. -
What Are You Listening To At This Moment?
tmtomh replied to The Pagemeister's topic in Other Bands / Music
Beck - Morning Phase -
REMASTERED LED ZEPPELIN III: Post Your Reactions/Reviews Here
tmtomh replied to Strider's topic in Led Zeppelin Reissues
I've always loved the Paris Olympia show, so I'm thrilled to have it on the LZ I bonus disc. But that said, I've gotta agree with you - LZ III's bonus disc is basically a really good album in and of itself. Unlike the Zep II bonus disc, very little on the Zep III bonus disc is merely "interesting" - most of these versions are really great and worth repeated listening.- 76 replies
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