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DogsoverLava

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Everything posted by DogsoverLava

  1. Here's the arrangement leading into the breakdown at the first coda section.... still scratch tracks as we build the arrangement and tweak the time grid.
  2. You guys do such nice work. This is really good. The deeper you dig, the more Zeppelin yield the gold!
  3. Thanks - I'm interested in where you got the info about the guitars used on the recording.... I've been listening pretty close trying to "hear" the Fender 12 on there - I have not picked it out of the mix yet but I'm deconstructing and rebuilding it now. I'm in the middle of recording a N4N recreation of the song --- here's some early sketches of me working out the orchestration I beat mapped the drums from the original zeppelin tune to create my time grid then programmed my own drums in (but kept Bonzo's time drift). I've just been adding instruments and tweaking the sound trying to zero in on the mix and production secrets as I build the arrangement. Here's where I'm at now.... still a long way to go.
  4. Can you confirm where this came from? --- It does sound very much like the actual track (drum bass and one guitar) and it does indeed sound like this cycle continues through the early bridges (that feature brass and violins) underneath what we normally "hear" as the bridge... my only question is the tempos are different from the original (but the tuning isn't different) which would seem to not make sense unless this has been manipulated digitally to preserve the pitch.... otherwise this would have to be an alternate take? If you've ever tried to play the bass part with the bridge section overlay it is very very hard to do --- and this answer the question to me why JPJ's bass only changes on some bridge parts and stays the same as the verses on others..... because the initial arrangement before brass and strings didn't have the bridge inserts/overlays....
  5. Cool -- We decided to do both Seaside and Kashmir -- two at the same time.... Hoping these won't take 18 months! The general process is basically to live with the song(s) - endless plays on repeat for weeks and weeks while studying drums scores, transcriptions, tutorials... any available resources that are out there and audit the track - literally note for note trying to find out what people get right and wrong... slow things down - isolate certain instruments using selective EQ settings etc... And we start recording scratch tracks, basically building the arrangement and the mix (while learning all the parts) as we go..... dialing in the sounds, working out all the mix and production trickery.... We may recording 50 or even 100 takes of any particular part as the project evolves and we get closer to figuring it out.... and when we're done we have a complete working arrangement of the song and mix that we sometimes will abandon (but use as a template) to re-record an entirely new version of the song yet again - sometimes with dozens of new takes per track.... Seaside is going to be really cool - there are not a lot of N4N covers out there - and nobody tries to N4N the piano when they play it..... (lots of the Seaside covers are "blocked" on YouTube.) Getting the Fx right will be tough... that's the biggest challenge I think. Totally excited to pull that off....
  6. Thanks man. We got really lucky with the vocals (last thing that was done). Clay has a really syrupy quality to his voice here just like Plant does... You gotta be fearless to tackle Robert's vocalizations because they are always pretty raw and very naked.... It's why I'm not singing this one - I just don't have that ability to let it hang out there like that. We really appreciate the support. Our next project is in discussion right now -- I'm leaning towards Down by The Seaside - others (including my wife) keep pushing for Kashmir.... I just like the challenge of "Seaside" because of that fantastic electric piano part. No quarter is another favorite of mine as well (also a great Electric Piano part).....
  7. At The Stairway Project we have completed another N4N Zeppelin cover - this time it's Ten Years Gone. The cover was recorded over a period of 18 months and we recently completed it after finding a really good volunteer vocalist who could bring out that Plant vocal vibe..... here it is. This was all done in a home studio. Hope you all enjoy. For more information about the cover or The Stairway Project you can visit the site here: http://www.thestairwayproject.com/the-stairway-project-presents-ten-years-gone/
  8. try the delay pedal with a super short delay time (and feedback). You'll hear it simulated. Jimmy I think used an out of phase pickup selection on his tele - I have a fender guitar that is wired for an out of phase tone and you can hear it immediately.
  9. I think, from what I've read, that the general consensus is that Taurus was not played live at any of the specific Zeppelin related dates - and that it is not officially alleged otherwise.
  10. Jimmy is known as "Led Wallet"... very tight fisted with his money. I once read (and it may be bullshit) that Jimmy actually asked the band to pitch in some money for drinks/snacks at their first jam. Not sure if that is myth or known truth but the fact that he's very very tight with his money is pretty well known.
  11. How about this as a corrected point then: It is NOT ALLEGED that Spirit played Taurus Live at any event or venue that Zeppelin attended. That it seems to be a matter of record that at the events (just a few) that both bands presences can be verified, Spirit did not play "Taurus". What's important here (as was later posted) is that it was suggested previously through the oral history or popular myth that Zeppelin watched Spirit perform "Taurus" night after night and that this was the circumstances that preceded this monumental theft. I still think that there is no evidence of misrepresentation or deception on the part of Zeppelin in their testimony.
  12. The LA times is little more than a rag - but even if we take these statements as true fact (which I do) - I'm not seeing deception or lies. Why are some of you concluding that Zeppelin lied on the stand? I find it reasonable that access was possible - I find it "possible" the song was heard in some way shape or form -- in no way do I find that probable, nor do I find Zep's claims to the contrary necessarily untruthful and their claims of not remembering in any way a practice of deception.
  13. I suspect Jimmy owns pretty much every record from the era as a collector and that most of them were sent to him gratis by record companies. That the jury didn't "buy" some of Zeppelin's testimony is conjecture yes? I'm still trying to get a sense of what are agreed on facts or undisputed or proven facts.
  14. Well I'm asking specifically what you think they said or was said as testimony that was lies?
  15. Well -- I'll say again -- what fibbery? And how do you draw that conclusion? In what way do you allow yourself to conclude that Zeppelin lied about anything here? What do you base that on? Are you disagreeing with what are now established facts? You can't just make a statement about lies without compelling evidence thereof. You shouldn't allow yourself the belief that there were lies without something compelling to support that belief. This isn't religion where you just get to believe whatever you want because of "feels"... Doing so is akin to being one of the long standing guys who have repeated ad nauseum over the years that Zeppelin watched Spirit perform "Taurus" live night after night --- turns out that was complete fiction - not only did they not really tour together, nor did Zeppelin ever really watch anyone who opened for them from the side of the stage, nor did Spirit ever play Taurus live ------- so give us something that we can either accept or argue against that has led you to believe there were lies from the Zeppelin camp.
  16. Why does there still seem to be confusion among the members here with respect to access and the possibility that Zep hadn't heard the song prior to writing STH? Am I wrong in my understanding that: Robert was at least passingly familiar with the "Fresh Garbage" cut and his influence brought the riff to the band to work up during a jam? Robert's familiarity was knowing the song from a compilation album. That "Fresh Garbage" is also on Spirit's album that contains "Taurus", but that there's no suggestion or evidence that Robert's access to "Fresh Garbage" equates to access to "Taurus". Further: That although the band shared a bill with Spirit on two occasions, and there's evidence that points to Robert having attended a concert where Spirit played, that "Taurus" was not played at those concerts. That it is further established that Spirit did not play "Taurus" live until after STH was written - at least a decade after. And That Jimmy Page has in his collection the Spirit album that contains "Taurus". That there is evidence to suggest that this album was acquired by Jimmy after STH was written -- decades after. That Jimmy's album collection is essentially a music archive and possessing an album among 1000's of others does not constitute access. And to conclude That there is no evidence proving access within the critical time period, only the suggestion that access wasn't an impossibility. That the myth that Zeppelin watched Spirit perform "Taurus" night after night from the stage is completely busted. I'm still very confused why members here insist that Page and Plant's denial of or recollection of even knowing or remembering much of anything about Spirit is somehow selective on their part or strategic with respect to this case. Can you imagine their lives? The demands on their time? The amount of people clamoring for a piece of them? The drugs and alcohol? The fallibility of memory? I bet Jimmy doesn't remember how to play half the Zeppelin catalog - that he'd have to woodshed for a long time to do so. I just don't see anything nefarious here at all. Am I missing something or are the facts above as I stated in the bullets correct?
  17. Sorry Guys (and Strider) -- I just had to post this one last one in case you'd never heard of "Wallet Boy" and Chris Eliot's "Get a Life". from back in the day.
  18. Unless of course it's true -- "running away" isn't running away if you are not running away.... I'm fully willing to believe the testimony and the facts as they are being established. If Jones says "no", and because I know how Jams work, I'm fully willing to believe it. And it is also very very common that musicians get totally isolated and hear little or listen to little other music. Eddie Van Halen is famous for this -- he's hardly listened to anyone since the mid eighties and is virtually ignorant on contemporary musicians and guitar players. I get that you have your skepticism -- you weigh the facts and hold a belief -- your belief here is that you have doubts about their truthfulness. You base that belief off of premises -- one of your premises was a certain disbelief that something played in a Jam that was similar to Fresh Garbage could happen without JPJ having heard that song before. I attacked (or attempted to explain) your premise - telling you how possible and actually how often that kind of thing can happen -- and that the premise therefore should be rejected from your argument that supports your belief that the Zep boys are being untruthful.... because it doesn't stand up -- it's not a compelling a argument - it doesn't stand up and is a very weak premise. That doesn't mean the Zep boys are NOT Lying.... JPJ might be --- but in order to hold a valid belief there or conclude as such you have to have an argument with premises that support it. The argument that Fresh Garbage's similarity to a Jam proves prior knowledge because you can't wrap your head around the idea that these kinds of similarities happen all the time is just wrong - factually wrong - experientially wrong..... Someone else mentioned a spy movie sounding bassline ---- and suggested that it could be possible that Fresh Garbage and the Zep Jam were inspired by the same source ergo have similar roots but are not a product of each other. I'll suggest that that argument is most likely key to understanding this whole case. Small Example: You and I are sitting at a pub for drinks with friends -- talking about having a pot-luck BBQ. In the midst of the discussion the pub owner's wife pulls a fresh apple cobbler out of the oven that carries itself into the pub. Later on we are both at home - and we both have been told that each of us must bring a dessert to the BBQ ----- and while we are each sitting in our own kitchens miles apart from each other wondering what to cook - we both think "apple pie".... and the next day at the BBQ we both show up with apple pies. Now neither of us copied the other (though one of us might think the other did - especially since one pie looks nicer and is preferred by the group). And neither of us is aware or associates the genesis of our idea to bake pies to our experience smelling the cobbler in the pub. We end up having a great time at the BBQ anyway because pie is awesome and there's a shit ton of it for everyone! Musical ideas and expressions are just like the idea to bake a pie. You might argue that in this case we are talking about the first pie --- that it's the pie itself which is a unique creative expression of a baked apple dessert. And I say that the idea to encrust apples in pastry could spontaneously happen simultaneously as well. It's not hard to conceive - you just have to understand the nature of creativity and the nature of ideas ---- in "words" this relates to theories and discussions of Mikhail Bakhtin idea of the dialogic. That every discussion is related to the history of every other discussion (a gross simplification). Music is the same way -- it's all inter-related. So I guess to reiterate - it comes back to this Strider --- What do YOU BELIEVE? And what are the premises that support that belief? Because right now your premises don't validly support your doubts ---- so where do your doubts come from? If it's just something that you "feel" that give you cause to doubt then I'd argue you need to reject that way of thinking and believing. There is an old narrative that's being dismantled in this case (the prior exposure one that has dominated the historical discussion of this issue between Zep and Sprit). As established facts get presented to counter the old narrative that said Jimmy used to watch Spirit play Taurus from the side stage night after night, we realize two things -- that narratives are stories - and beliefs based on stories are dangerous because a good story just "feels true" but that doesn't make it "True". Anyway -- nothing personal here -- but I just see you adding to the narrative with statements of belief that suggest facts that are themselves already disproved or that are unsupported by the evidence as it gets established.
  19. This just tells me that your opinion here is of very little value. If you've ever been in a band, or a touring band - you'd have the experience of having worked out all kinds of Jams and riffs that turned out to be existing songs --- A jam based on a riff is very easy to spontaneously create without knowing it already existed --- almost every single musician can tell you about the experience of working up things only to find out after the fact that there's a very similar or at times almost exactly the same song/riff/groove already out there. It's so common that I know world famous musicians that have had to scrap whole recordings after someone walked into a session and said - "hey - this song sounds like ______" -- I've literally seen them walk away from completed master tapes of finished material. It happens in music - it happens in comedy with jokes -- it happens in art/photography..... it happens -- it's the very nature of the creative process. That liability is always present in the creative process. It is true that our brains absorbs stuff unconsciously -- sometimes we hear stuff without knowing we've heard it so when it comes out in a jam (and you get that rush of excitement of having spontaneously created something cool) we are not aware that what we thought was a spontaneous creation actually was influenced by something rattling around in the unconscious. But isn't that the nature of creativity itself? Isn't that the nature of all creativity? --- That it's a derivative in some way of our experience in the world? That's why the implications of this case are so wide ranging and fraught with real jeopardy -- because almost everything is a tiny bit derivative. Knowing that this motif has been used time and time again doesn't diminish Stairway or make it less creative -- it makes it part of a creative tradition -- in some ways it proves and validates it's originality because it is precisely a product of the creative process itself -- which is fully dialogic. Anyway -- just some thoughts and maybe something to help you get beyond the idea that JPJ's claims or Jimmy's claims are far fetched here.
  20. I know this is an old thread but I can confirm specifically that there are 4 recorders on this track - A Bass recorder, and Alto recorder, a soprano, and a treble (or two sopranos). It's not too hard figuring this stuff out but it helps if you are familiar with Bach. Try following one part at a time. And yes live it was played with a Melotron. If you really listen you can hear JPJ's breath and vibrato as he lowers the intensity of his breath... you'll also note how this causes slight tuning issues.
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