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pagemccartney95

Zep and the Beatles

340 posts in this topic

your place and my place are the same: pals across the pond!

Me too "beatbo!" I couldn't have said it better myself! ROCK ON my friend!

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How's it going "beatbo" my buddy? I hope all is well with you and your girlfriend. As someone said earlier here on this thread, THE BEATLES and LED ZEPPELIN are two different bands that were great during their time playing two different music styles. I'm willing to leave it at that and move on. THE BEATLES, in my heart, will always be my all-time favorite band with LED ZEPPELIN coming in a very close second. ROCK ON my friend!

hey, ZFF! i love how you always ask about miss vivi, like we are doomed to catch the measles!

is it safe to say that the beatles and zeppelin are one and two, and the order that they fall in is up to you? i better ask someone who was there....

edit to add: ROCK ON!!!!

Edited by beatbo

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hey, ZFF! i love how you always ask about miss vivi, like we are doomed to catch the measles!

is it safe to say that the beatles and zeppelin are one and two, and the order that they fall in is up to you? i better ask someone who was there....

edit to add: ROCK ON!!!!

Ah Ha! Ah those "M's," they always have a way of sneaking up on you if you know what I mean! Ha Ha! ROCK ON my friend!

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your place and my place are the same: pals across the pond!

Ok Yo Mo Fo, (WTF does that mean) :lol:

Hey Beatbo, i've studied many peoples likes and dislikes in music and the thing that keeps me thinking is this, do you like the Music, or do you like the Poetry/Lyrics side of it?

Now take me, i know my heart is in the Music, my Music collection streaches from The Blues and Blues Rock(My Favourite) through to Pro Rock, English Folk Music, Baroque, Medieval English Chant Music, Pure Classical, Dixie, Whale Song, African Drum Rhythms, Japaneese Trad and Folk and almosy anything instrumental. But i never get off on anything that, as Cosy Powell once said, is designed to make you dance by playing in a time signature that matches you bio rhythms or heart beats.

Music certainly crosses all bounderies hey?

Kind Regards, Danny

PS.

"Is there anything that you want?"

"Is there anything i can do?"

"Just call on me, and i'll send it along"

"With love, from me to you."

And I mean every word of it mate. :beer:

Edited by BIGDAN

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How's it going "Reggie29?" The reason why I call THE BEATLES THE GREATEST overall is because to add to what you've said earlier, had it not been for THE BEATLES, the doors would not have been opened for British acts to come to America and take the country over musically by storm. While THE BEATLES are the greatest Pop Rock band ever, THE BEATLES can also be called the GREATEST Rock n' Roll band ever! I'm sure that you have heard songs such as "Revolution," "Helter Skelter," "Everybody's Got Something To hide Except For Me And My Monkey," "Paperback Writer" and "Birthday" to name a few. THE BEATLES changed Rock n' Roll forever twice in their career, once in 1963 and the other in 1967. Just when everyone thought that no one could record any of THE BEATLES songs and immortalize them, JOE COCKER does the impossible with "A little Help From My Friends" in 1969. GREAT SONG! Jimmy did add some great guitar work on that song. ROCK ON!

Greatness is subjective.

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Greatness is subjective.

How's it going "Zoso2112?" It can be when you have an open mind and try to see everyone's point of view and not just your own. ROCK ON!

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Ok Yo Mo Fo, (WTF does that mean) :lol:

Hey Beatbo, i've studied many peoples likes and dislikes in music and the thing that keeps me thinking is this, do you like the Music, or do you like the Poetry/Lyrics side of it?

bigdan!

excellent question! i like both and the rivers that flow have widened as i've grown older. never cared for opera, but i saw aretha franklin stand in for one of the three tenors on an awards show, and i don't even know if she knew what she was singing, but it made me cry. no drums...

for years, i steered clear of classical music, until i saw yo yo ma at carnegie hall doing bach's suite. it was sweet...

when i was a kid, i used to play my dad's sandy nelson drum records. it gave me the birth of the beat...

my dad was born in '42. an original rocker. he gave me his 45 collection when i was 7. tons of great original rock and roll, with some of the most inane lyrics ever. i love it still! (wopbopaloobop!)

the words? you know i'm a word guy, too. books and records/music is what i own the most of. the words became heavy by listening to john lennon on the beatles cartoons here in the states. they would play "i'm a loser" and do the bouncing ball at the bottom of the screen. i would tap my foot and wonder why a man would write happy music and sing sad words. i was hooked, man....

bob dylan? i'll just quote him:

She lit a burner on the stove and offered me a pipe

"I thought you'd never say hello," she said

"You look like the silent type."

Then she opened up a book of poems

And handed it to me

Written by an Italian poet

From the thirteenth century.

And every one of them words rang true

And glowed like burnin' coal

Pourin' off of every page

Like it was written in my soul

...from me to you,

Tangled up in blue.

these days, i give everything a listen. there's a lot of junk but there always was, wasn't there? i've seen some of the greatest country performers ever and the people that played in their bands could tear up most of these kids today.

and i like reggae...

are song lyrics poems?

do poems make good songs?

when jimmy page slides a glass tube down the neck of his guitar, does it make words pop up in my head or the hair stand straight up on my arms?

hair today, gone tomorrow....

later, mofo. yo!

Edited by beatbo

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bigdan!

excellent question! i like both and the rivers that flow have widened as i've grown older. never cared for opera, but i saw aretha franklin stand in for one of the three tenors on an awards show, and i don't even know if she knew what she was singing, but it made me cry. no drums...

for years, i steered clear of classical music, until i saw yo yo ma at carnegie hall doing bach's suite. it was sweet...

when i was a kid, i used to play my dad's sandy nelson drum records. it gave me the birth of the beat...

my dad was born in '42. an original rocker. he gave me his 45 collection when i was 7. tons of great original rock and roll, with some of the most inane lyrics ever. i love it still! (wopbopaloobop!)

the words? you know i'm a word guy, too. books and records/music is what i own the most of. the words became heavy by listening to john lennon on the beatles cartoons here in the states. they would play "i'm a loser" and do the bouncing ball at the bottom of the screen. i would tap my foot and wonder why a man would write happy music and sing sad words. i was hooked, man....

bob dylan? i'll just quote him:

She lit a burner on the stove and offered me a pipe

"I thought you'd never say hello," she said

"You look like the silent type."

Then she opened up a book of poems

And handed it to me

Written by an Italian poet

From the thirteenth century.

And every one of them words rang true

And glowed like burnin' coal

Pourin' off of every page

Like it was written in my soul

...from me to you,

Tangled up in blue.

these days, i give everything a listen. there's a lot of junk but there always was, wasn't there? i've seen some of the greatest country performers ever and the people that played in their bands could tear up most of these kids today.

and i like reggae...

are song lyrics poems?

do poems make good songs?

when jimmy page slides a glass tube down the neck of his guitar, does it make words pop up in my head or the hair stand straight up on my arms?

hair today, gone tomorrow....

later, mofo. yo!

In my opinion "beatbo," the poetry/lyrics point of view tells the story of the music! ROCK ON!

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In my opinion "beatbo," the poetry/lyrics point of view tells the story of the music! ROCK ON!

here's yo yo ma:

now, ZFF, if you watched that (or better yet, closed your eyes and listened to it), did the music tell you a story or did it touch some primal emotions that are not articulated but still poignant? is the end result as good as a story?

maybe. perhaps not.

ROCK ON, MY FRIEND!

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Excuse me :blink:, but

here's my opine:

When the Beatles broke out in '64, POP music was POPular; ROCK didn't really exist yet.

There was definitely rock before The Beatles. Elvis cannot be left out of this equasion. He was influential on both The Beatles and Led Zeppelin. And in 1957 Elvis wasn't "Dancin to the Jailhouse POP"! :lol:

And you really can't have a discussion of British rock pioneers without Cliff Richard and The Rolling Stones. The transition from skiffle to "beat" music in Britain is rooted in American rock and roll, surf music, blues, and rhythm and blues.

Now "Hard Rock" is a different story. ;)

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There was definitely rock before The Beatles. Elvis cannot be left out of this equasion. He was influential on both The Beatles and Led Zeppelin. And in 1957 Elvis wasn't "Dancin to the Jailhouse POP"! :lol:

And you really can't have a discussion of British rock pioneers without Cliff Richard and The Rolling Stones. The transition from skiffle to "beat" music in Britain is rooted in American rock and roll, surf music, blues, and rhythm and blues.

Now "Hard Rock" is a different story. ;)

Plus people like Gene Vincent, Eddie Cochran etc. were touring Britain in the early 60s--and you've only got to look/listen to the Beatles in their Hamburg days to see their rock roots.

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Did I really spell equation with an s? I've really got to stop typing and watching Family Guy at the same time! :lol:

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There was definitely rock before The Beatles. Elvis cannot be left out of this equasion. He was influential on both The Beatles and Led Zeppelin. And in 1957 Elvis wasn't "Dancin to the Jailhouse POP"! :lol:

And you really can't have a discussion of British rock pioneers without Cliff Richard and The Rolling Stones. The transition from skiffle to "beat" music in Britain is rooted in American rock and roll, surf music, blues, and rhythm and blues.

Now "Hard Rock" is a different story. ;)

:yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod:

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The Beatles owe their sound, arrangements and overall production to George Martin.

Led Zeppelin was Jimmy who IMO is as good if not better than George in the studio and JPJ's arrangements were Zeppelins sound.

Jimmy and Jonesy were superior musicians than say McCartney, Lennon and Harrison.

Bonzo or Ringo (or Pete Best), you tell me.

Don't get me wrong they were good at what they did just not as polished as JP & JPJ.

Paul has a great voice but not the bluesy qualities of Robert.

All those years playing sessions perfected their craft, while The Beatles were growing in stature by playing Chuck Berry and the like until they started to release great Pop songs under George Martin and management of Brian Epstein.

1963 -1969 were owned by The Beatles.

During the same period Jimmy and Jonesy played on some of the most influential alternate pop (Rock?), in England.

Led Zeppelin also had Peter Grant who while worlds apart from Epstein were not dissimilar.

Both had an uncanny knack of doing and getting the best for and out of their band.

As mentioned before it's pointless comparing them to each other, compare them to their contemporaries of the same eras and arguably they would at the top of their respective lists.

Better or greater is subjective and purely matters of opinion.

To experience music by those two bands is a once in a lifetime thing, an event that may never be seen again.

Certainly not in mine or by me.

On an aside, it's interesting to note that the Beatles and Zeppelin were embraced by the US (and ultimately the rest of the world) while receiving instant recognition (The Beatles) to lukewarm response (Zep from the media) in the UK.

That Jimi Hendrix being an American was embraced by the British and elsewhere before his homeland finally realised what a fine talent he was.

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I can say that THE BEATLES were the greatest in America from an American standpoint while you can say that LED ZEPPELIN was the greatest from a British standpoint which is really unusual considering that the British never considered neither band very popular in their own homeland.

You couldn't be more wrong! Oh my God where do you think Beatlemania began?

That is absolute nonsense my friend.

*edit - just read Aqua's comments on this and her first hand evidence re this is great to have. ;) *

Edited by Knebby

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You couldn't be more wrong! Oh my God where do you think Beatlemania began?

That is absolute nonsense my friend.

*edit - just read Aqua's comments on this and her first hand evidence re this is great to have. ;) *

Hey "Knebby," before you jump the gun let me speak my peace here. I have heard your fellow Englishman today say that THE BEATLES are not as popular now in England as they were back then. Maybe I did not re phrase my statement correctly as I should have but I have heard this before. Please don't get me wrong, THE BEATLES are my all-time most favorite band in the whole wide world and they will always be but what I have heard from people in your country really disturbs me. Maybe you can clear that up for me as to why? ROCK ON!

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Hi Jo,

From what you just wrote i would surmise that you are more of a Beatle fan than a Zepp one, thats alright, i'm OK with being biased, i am too.

I stand by what i wrote, i believe i gave a good level opinion of what i believe is factual and true, not if's and but's .

I believe the Beatles should be classed as a Boy band of their time, because they attracted young Girls in there Millions who only wanted to see or touch there Hero's, and cared little for actually going to a concert to listen to the music, and the Beatles played up to this in writing mushy songs for years after, i have never experianced this at a Zeppelin Gig.

The Beatles were geniuses of the Pop song culture where Zeppelin were geniuses of the Rock culture, i dont regard Beatles as a Rock Band, but i do regard them as geniuses of their times. The only real difference between us is that i'm more concerned with the love of Music, whereas other have a love of Poetry and Lyrics.

I could listen to all Zepps stuff without the Lyrics and still be extreamly satisfied that i had heard something special, i could not say that about the Beatles songs, listening to just their music would bore me to tears.

But everyone to his own, we all need to express our opinions and i wouldnt have it any other way. :beer:

Regards, Danny

Let me elaborate for you, Danny:

Have every actually watched Beatles concert footage? Not every member of the audience was a young girl: there were guy fans in the audience, too! Also, Linda McCartney was a Beatles(and Yardbirds!) fan before she met Sir Paul(Happy Birthday to him, btw), but she was born in 1941, which would make her approximately 23 when the Beatles hit: now she was young, but not as young as you seem to be suggesting, that is, 10-16 age range. Not all young girls at that time were into the Beatles: some of them simply weren't interested. A "Boy Band" would be the Monkees, N'Sync, and Minuedo, who were specifically manufactured for teenage girls. The Beatles, conversely, were actually talented(i.e., wrote their own music, etc.) and although they were boys when they started recording(George was either 19 or 20), boy bands are today thought of little puppets manufactured by companies wanting to make money. The Beatles actually knew each other before they became famous; Brian Epstein didn't just pick cute talented guys from auditions. Not every Beatles song was "mushy": how can, say, "You Can't Do That", or, "Tomorrow Never Knows", be considered "mushy"?

The Beatles, although starting out as a POP band, were built on the roots of rock(i.e., Chuck Berry, Elvis Presley, etc.) and, like the rest of the music world, evolved into ROCK: looking at music charts at the time of "I Want to Hold Your Hand", most of the singles would'nt be considered CLASSIC ROCK; conversely, many singles on the charts at the time of "Help!", merely a year later, can be thought of as CLASSIC ROCK. They went from "Can't Buy Me Love" to "Get Back". They did manage to write poetry: Sir Paul wrote "And I Love Her" in '64 for his then-girlfriend, Jane Asher(she's aged really well! :) ) and, in '68, wrote "I Will" for future wife Linda(I miss her :( ). I will admit, though, they did possess the ability of sappiness, especially on Paul's part, but he could mange to write some rockers like "Get Back". John Lennon(who I think had something of an anger issue) wrote the majority of the band's most famous songs: "Help!", "Strawberry Fields Forever", "I am the Walrus", "Don't Let Me Down"(written for Yoko :) ), "Come Together", and "Dig a Pony" started at his pen.

Zeppelin were the Original Headbangers. I kind of agree with Aquamarine on this one, that we are sort of comparing "apples to oranges": Zep came after the Beatles, music had evolved quite a bit; if Aerosmith(thinking of, maybe, Toys in the Attic )tried to hit it big in '64, they probably would've gotten nowhere because the music was still pretty much POP then. Or suppose the Stones had tried, say, "Can't You Hear Me Knocking" even in '68: music hadn't reached that style yet. Bands become popular if their genre is whatever is popular. Zep was huge because their type of music was very popular in their time.

Beatles music needs lyrics, but so does most of Zeppelin's. If you wish to disagree, fine by me.

Let's agree to disagree!

That would be nice. B)

Jo

Edited by pagemccartney95

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Hey "Knebby," before you jump the gun let me speak my peace here. I have heard your fellow Englishman today say that THE BEATLES are not as popular now in England as they were back then. Maybe I did not re phrase my statement correctly as I should have but I have heard this before. Please don't get me wrong, THE BEATLES are my all-time most favorite band in the whole wide world and they will always be but what I have heard from people in your country really disturbs me. Maybe you can clear that up for me as to why? ROCK ON!

I know you weren't talking to me here, but anyway--to say they're not as popular NOW as they were back then is a different point--I don't think they could possibly be as popular anywhere as they were in England back then, let alone the US, especially as they now haven't existed for nearly forty years! Don't forget there were WAY fewer bands back then--no band could maintain that level of absolute national fanaticism.

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The word "better" makes no sense when comparing bands like Led Zeppelin and The Beatles. As has been pretty much already said in this thread, the two bands were of different eras and had to work within that frame, thus they cannot be compared. I don't think saying that Led Zep is better than The Beatles because The Beatles were a typical 'boy band' with 3 minute songs and screaming girls and such is fair. That is the frame the Beatles had to work with in that time. They then broke that mold a few years later. Led Zeppelin also broke the mold in the '70's, but in a different context.

I love the Beatles dearly. I love Led Zeppelin dearly. Led Zep may always be my favourite, for sentimental reasons, but that has nothing to do with one being 'better' than the other.

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I know you weren't talking to me here, but anyway--to say they're not as popular NOW as they were back then is a different point--I don't think they could possibly be as popular anywhere as they were in England back then, let alone the US, especially as they now haven't existed for nearly forty years! Don't forget there were WAY fewer bands back then--no band could maintain that level of absolute national fanaticism.

How's it going "Aquamarine?" Thank you for your comment. I apologize for not explaining myself the way I should have and that is why I rephrased it. Its just that when I have met numerous people from England and I have mentioned THE BEATLES or even LED ZEPPELIN, few of them have told me that neither THE BEATLES or LED ZEPPELIN are as popular in England anymore and that really puzzles me coming from people that are from England. I just find that hard to believe. THE BEATLES and LED ZEPPELIN here in the US are considered Rock Royalty, why is it that both of these bands are thought of differently in England? Its beyond me! For myself, personally, THE BEATLES and LED ZEPPELIN are like THE GODS of Rock n' Roll, ROCK ROYALTY! When I was talking with a fellow co-worker that is from England, this person admitted to me that British bands are more appreciated in the US than in England. I even find this hard to believe considering that the two greatest bands that ever lived are from England. I remember even reading something about this here on the forum a while back and I was puzzled even then. In the long run, it really doesn't matter because its how all of us feels inside that matters in the end. We can each chose THE BEATLES over ZEPPELIN or ZEPPELIN over tHE BEATLES but you are right about one thing "Aquamarine," these two bands are two completely different bands with two different styles of music and it wouldn't be fair to compare them both. I am more inclined to stick with how "beatbo" explained it which is THE BEATLES did it great, but LED ZEPPELIN did it better! (Something along those lines but you understand.) When you think about it, LED ZEPPELIN had to do better because the times and music were changing. I am glad that LED ZEPPELIN did it better because they took music as well as live performances to another level in the 1970's and beyond. ROCK ON my friend!

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I think being popular and being Rock Royality are two totally different thing.

And I think neither the Beatles nor Led Zeppelin are really "popular" nowadays in the US, mind you? Jonas Brothers and Miley Cyrus are. Would you call them rock royality? Surely not.

And I mean, you can't expect the bands from 70s to be as "popular" now as they were at the peak, when they were still bands and touring. They are now widely heard, well respected and dearly loved by a lot of fans, but it's not the common definition of "popular".

Edited by glicine

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I don't think the Beatles were any more of a "boy" band than Zeppelin was a "hair metal" band. I also believe the Beatles were a rock n' roll band from the beginning to the end. Where they "popular"? Yes. Did they play music that could be considered "pop"? Most definitely but not in the vacuous sense of the word. Just ask any one of the many power pop artists out there such as Cheap Trick, Nick Lowe, Elvis Costello, etc. who helped to influence that aspect of their sound and they will all mention the Beatles. And while I do agree it's pointless to compare the two, I'll take the majority of Lennon and McCartney's lyrics over those of Zeppelin any day of the fucking week but that may just be me.

As for the original question, isn't there an interview on the bonus portion of the Led Zeppelin DVD where they mention the Beatles? Been a while since I've watched it myself.

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I don't think the Beatles were any more of a "boy" band than Zeppelin was a "hair metal" band. I also believe the Beatles were a rock n' roll band from the beginning to the end. Where they "popular"? Yes. Did they play music that could be considered "pop"? Most definitely but not in the vacuous sense of the word. Just ask any one of the many power pop artists out there such as Cheap Trick, Nick Lowe, Elvis Costello, etc. who helped to influence that aspect of their sound and they will all mention the Beatles. And while I do agree it's pointless to compare the two, I'll take the majority of Lennon and McCartney's lyrics over those of Zeppelin any day of the fucking week but that may just be me.

As for the original question, isn't there an interview on the bonus portion of the Led Zeppelin DVD where they mention the Beatles? Been a while since I've watched it myself.[/color]

Yes, there was. Zeppelin had just overtaken them (in terms of sales? can't remember) and Jimmy and Robert were asked what they think of them, and Jimmy says they're great, describing them as (not in these words) the band who broke everything open.

On a different point, I don't know who all these Brits are who think the Beatles and Zeppelin aren't popular there, but I've never met one. However, as glicine points out, if you look at it from the point of view of sales, etc., obviously other active bands outsell them right now (though overall lifetime sales are a different matter), and there haven't been any Beatles or Zep gigs to go to for decades. So there's no way they would be on everyone's radar screen when Miley Cyrus or even Madonna is touring, but when you look at the big picture it's a completely different matter. If "rock royalty" applies to anyone, they're it.

Edited for terrible grammar

Edited by Aquamarine

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THE BEATLES and LED ZEPPELIN here in the US are considered Rock Royalty, why is it that both of these bands are thought of differently in England? Its beyond me! For myself, personally, THE BEATLES and LED ZEPPELIN are like THE GODS of Rock n' Roll, ROCK ROYALTY! When I was talking with a fellow co-worker that is from England, this person admitted to me that British bands are more appreciated in the US than in England. I even find this hard to believe considering that the two greatest bands that ever lived are from England.

were never appreciated in America! :D

I'm afraid, your fellow co-worker is talking bollocks. In fact, a lot of British bands find it very hard to make it in America. The Brit Pop movement in the 90s was not particularly big in America, and neither was British Glam Rock in the 70s and there's probably quite a few current British bands/artists that have had little success in America. As for The Beatles and Led Zeppelin, they are still massively popular here in Britain, both often regarded as the greatest bands of all time. I think The Beatles are probably still the biggest selling act in the UK and I imagine they always will be.

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I'm so not wanting to argue with anyone, but I can attest that we in America hear that all the time..."The Beatles knew they wouldn't be 'big' until they were big in America." "Led Zeppelin was never appreciated in their home country like they were in America."

If this isn't true, I am so glad to be educated. But please, people, don't get angry at us for posting something we have been taught as truth.

You catch more flies with honey... ^_^

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