Slate Chocolate Marble
Slate Chocolate Marble

Led Zeppelin Official Forum

Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to contribute to this site by submitting your own content or replying to existing content. You'll be able to customize your profile, while also communicating with other members via your own private inbox, plus much more! This message will be removed once you have signed in.

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
DAS

2012 American Presidential Election

Cast your vote   84 members have voted

  1. 1. Who are you for?

    • Obama (US Citizen)
      25
    • Romney (US Citizen)
      25
    • Other Candidate (US Citizen)
      8
    • Not Voting (US Citizen)
      5
    • Obama (Non-US Citizen)
      15
    • Romney (Non-US Citizen)
      1
    • Other Candidate (Non-US Citizen)
      1
    • Don't Care (Non-US Citizen)
      4

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

852 posts in this topic

That reminds me....DAS said that Congress should be held accountable for treason for the ACA vote, what about Reagan for trading arms to Iran while they held our citizens hostage, and he was only president elect, so they would release them once he was sworn in? Imagine if Clinton or Obama had done that???

:blink:

As for Iran-Contra, your timetable is off. It had nothing to do with the hostages who were freed in January of '81, it happened in Reagan's second term and involved different hostages.

He confused the October Surprise conspiracy theory with Iran-Contra?

:hysterical:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Four years ago this topic and a similiar thread turned into a full scale war and land mine. Poor Hermit, if you are out there buddy, drop in sometime. Regardless of what side you are on, guys like him were political animals. And knew what they were talking about most of the time. I am not going to chose one of those choices just yet. There is strong divide in both of the major parties like I have never before seen. It makes for one of the most interesting and perhaps unpredictable elections ever. Having studied and completed statistics in college I am a believer of predicting the outcome of these things within a reasonable range, with X number of errors and using many pre election polls and data. But the sample this time could be very "off". We may not get a good random sample to draw conclusions from for several reasons that I will not ramble on about right now. This topic will gain momentum by the day. You know how they always say, "this is the most important election of your life?" Well this time I may actually believe it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really?

I have an acquaintance who does the same thing and has made millions upon millions doing it. It's legal, true. Just don't see how that translates to being a president in a political situation where you can't just write off a region of your business, err country.

Meant to post this earlier, knew I'd read it recently and couldn't find it. Jack Welch seems to think a background in private equity would be useful for a President:

...Let’s start with what private equity firms do, which is actually very simple. They buy troubled companies with the intention of fixing them up. In time, they hope, that will result in a big payday when the new-and-improved business goes public or gets sold to an eager strategic acquirer. Yes, sometimes these turnaround efforts fail, and companies and jobs are lost. And yes, on occasion PE firms have bought in and overleveraged a business’s assets. Then, as a result of an economic downturn, the company has tanked, while the PE firm has gotten out whole.

But the norm is different. Typically, that’s not what happens. It’s just not...

...Sophisticated negotiation skills, balance-sheet management, strategy development and implementation, talent selection and a global mindset sure seem like tools you’d want any president to carry, don’t they?

Only politics would say it ain’t so.

http://blogs.reuters.com/jack-and-suzy-welch/2012/05/30/mr-biden-here’s-the-truth-about-private-equity/

Edited by mstork

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Until term limits are established, Citizens United ruling is overturned, and until K Street is dismantled with all lobbying activity being deemed illegal the US will continue with the pantomime of side show politics. The unfortunate fact is this, even if an ideological candidate made it to the house or senate, much less the presidency, they would be excluded from "the club" until they played along. If they remained idealistic they would turn into another John Quincy Adams presidency, or if a congress person, get nothing done ( since no one would support you) and be voted out the next election.

Its all about the money, its a crime our country is sold to the highest bidder and all our leaders are whores in one way or another.

BTW, I read something interesting the other day. It turns out the Thomas Jefferson who wrote "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" in retrospect thought those were the most selfish words he ever wrote and if he could he never would have wrote them. Interesting perspective from a very interesting man, I don't think I agree with his assessment but I do understand his point.

There are reasons to oppose term limits. Term Limits simply shift power from the elected offices to the bureaucrats and lobbyists.

There's also the matter of legislative ignorance caused by term limits. The Washington Post's Ezra Klein writes that, during California's budget crisis, ex-actor Arnold Schwarzenegger was the most experienced person in the budget dispute.

"Term limits are one of those ideas that sound good in theory, but are madness in practice," Klein adds. "You wouldn't want to go to a hospital filled with medical residents or stock a sports team with an ever-changing cast of rookies. Legislating is hard. We need to give people time to learn how to do it."

Term limits allow us to feel a little tougher than politicians, like we're doing something right by supposedly limiting their power. But with term limits we are more likely to have ignorant legislators with less power than unelected officials, with evidence of more corruption than places without term limits. If you want to eliminate corruption, don't limit terms. Boost them, as in terms for financial penalties for misdeeds, or terms in prison for more serious offenses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Term limits will help move some of these career politicians out. So will age limits:

50 senators - 27 are age 70 or older, including 4 that are 80 and older. Do you think an 87 yr old senator that has been in office 49 years is really doing the best for his constituency?

435 reps - 59 of those Congressman are 70 or older, including 12 that are 80 or older.

Probably the most positive impact they have is they probably don't drive themselves to work and aren't creating more hazards on the road.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How is the US President and Vice-President are actually put into office:

The Electoral College

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_%28United_States%29

The Electoral College is an example of an indirect election, as opposed to a direct election by United States citizens (such as for members of the United States House of Representatives).

The voters of each state, and the District of Columbia, vote for electors to be the authorized constitutional participants in a presidential election. In early U.S. history, some state laws delegated the choice of electors to the state legislature. Electors are free to vote for anyone eligible to be President, but in practice pledge to vote for specific candidates and voters cast ballots for favored presidential and vice presidential candidates by voting for correspondingly pledged electors.

The Twelfth Amendment provides for each elector to cast one vote for President and one vote for Vice President. It also specifies how a President and Vice President are elected.

Each state's electors must complete six Certificates of Vote. Each Certificate of Vote must be signed by all of the electors and a Certificate of Ascertainment must be attached to each of the Certificates of Vote. Each Certificate of Vote must include the names of those who received an electoral vote for either the office of President or of Vice President. The electors certify the Certificates of Vote and copies of the Certificates are then sent in the following fashion:

A staff member of the President of the Senate collects the Certificates of Vote as they arrive and prepares them for the joint session of the Congress. The Certificates are arranged—unopened—in alphabetical order and placed in two special mahogany boxes. Alabama through Missouri (including Washington, D.C.) are placed in one box and Montana through Wyoming are placed in the other box.

Contingent presidential election by House

Pursuant to the Twelfth Amendment, the House of Representatives is required to go into session immediately to vote for President if no candidate for President receives a majority of the electoral votes (since 1964, 270 of the 538 electoral votes).

Contingent vice presidential election by Senate

If no candidate for Vice President receives an absolute majority of electoral votes, then the Senate must go into session to elect a Vice President.

Deadlocked chambers

If the House of Representatives has not chosen a President-elect in time for the inauguration (noon on January 20), then Section 3 of the Twentieth Amendment specifies that the Vice President-elect becomes Acting President until the House should select a President. If the winner of the vice presidential election is also not known by then, then under the Presidential Succession Act of 1947, the sitting Speaker of the House would become Acting President until either the House should select a President or the Senate should select a Vice President.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Almost everyone with a tax return as complicated as his files an extension.

He didn't last year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First of all those four years of Carter were a bitch, thank you!

This country had been in a tailspin for many years before Carter ever took office. Starting with Vietnam and the civil rights movement through watergate and ford's pardoning of Nixon. Did Carter do a good job getting us back on our feet, no, but he received a country that had been in turmoil for over a decade. That's what I'm saying, it wasn't ALL his doing even though it's popular to paint that picture...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He confused the October Surprise conspiracy theory with Iran-Contra?

:hysterical:

No confusion on my part. I was referring to Reagan's October Surprise, which was/is much more than a conspiracy theory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Meant to post this earlier, knew I'd read it recently and couldn't find it. Jack Welch seems to think a background in private equity would be useful for a President:

http://blogs.reuters.com/jack-and-suzy-welch/2012/05/30/mr-biden-here’s-the-truth-about-private-equity/

Don't see too many of the businesses being bought by Bain being turned around and sold when they were healthy and sustainable. They look like they were bought, milked, gutted and then sold when nothing else could be done with them.

This whole discussion doesn't really matter anyway...we're not gonna change each other's mind and end up getting pissed at each other. Everyone is taking their usual stances. Plus only a few of us are in states that are not already predetermined. Let the electoral votes fall however they may.

Edited by Walter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't see too many of the businesses being bought by Bain being turned around and sold when they were healthy and sustainable. They look like they were bought, milked, gutted and then sold when nothing else could be done with them.

This whole discussion doesn't really matter anyway...we're not gonna change each other's mind and end up getting pissed at each other. Everyone is taking their usual stances. Plus only a few of us are in states that are not already predetermined. Let the electoral votes fall however they may.

Speak for yourself brother, I'm not pissed at you or anyone. At the risk of pissing you off even more, there is no evidence to back the claim that most of the companies Bain worked with were "bought, milked, gutted and then sold." Unless your scientific sample is "Bain companies I saw in an Obama 2012 ad".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This country had been in a tailspin for many years before Carter ever took office. Starting with Vietnam and the civil rights movement through watergate and ford's pardoning of Nixon. Did Carter do a good job getting us back on our feet, no, but he received a country that had been in turmoil for over a decade. That's what I'm saying, it wasn't ALL his doing even though it's popular to paint that picture...

Well previously you pointed out something like "75% Republican Presidents", now you're pointing the finger straight at JFK and LBJ when you talk about Vietnam and Civil Rights related turmoil.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well previously you pointed out something like "75% Republican Presidents", now you're pointing the finger straight at JFK and LBJ when you talk about Vietnam and Civil Rights related turmoil.

At least read the post correctly....I was referring to the fact that 8 years prior to and the 4 years of Reagan's 1st term (we were discussing the unemployment rate issue) - which makes up 12 out of 16 years, or 75% of that time period being discussed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Speak for yourself brother, I'm not pissed at you or anyone. At the risk of pissing you off even more, there is no evidence to back the claim that most of the companies Bain worked with were "bought, milked, gutted and then sold." Unless your scientific sample is "Bain companies I saw in an Obama 2012 ad".

Again read correctly, we'll end up getting pissed at each other....I am not pissed at you in the least. Even with your misquoting! ;)

Edited by Walter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well previously you pointed out something like "75% Republican Presidents", now you're pointing the finger straight at JFK and LBJ when you talk about Vietnam and Civil Rights related turmoil.

The whole political climate at that time made Carter's 4 years look much worse than they were. There was the hangover associated with the mess in Vietnam, political backlash after watergate/ford's pardoning and a large part of caucasians being pissed at the democrats/LBJ for signing off on the civil rights laws. Wasn't it LBJ who said the democrats had lost the south for the next two generations after signing off on that law? He was pretty much spot on with that call.... Again, Carter didn't turn things around in 4 years and was out - but he was pretty much in a no win situation at the time - that's all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The whole political climate at that time made Carter's 4 years look much worse than they were. There was the hangover associated with the mess in Vietnam, political backlash after watergate/ford's pardoning and a large part of caucasians being pissed at the democrats/LBJ for signing off on the civil rights laws. Wasn't it LBJ who said the democrats had lost the south for the next two generations after signing off on that law? He was pretty much spot on with that call.... Again, Carter didn't turn things around in 4 years and was out - but he was pretty much in a no win situation at the time - that's all.

Agree to disagree. Or as Jimmy Page would say, "Do what thou wilt"!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This country had been in a tailspin for many years before Carter ever took office. Starting with Vietnam and the civil rights movement through watergate and ford's pardoning of Nixon. Did Carter do a good job getting us back on our feet, no, but he received a country that had been in turmoil for over a decade. That's what I'm saying, it wasn't ALL his doing even though it's popular to paint that picture...

No one (at least not me) suggests that Carter was the lone culprit any more than I suggest Obama is the lone culprit.

Almost any President inherits problems, some worse than others.

My only point is both Carter and Obama were poor administrators who made bad decisions that made things even worse.

And Obama actually RAN on the fact that he fully understood what a "mess" he was facing and assured the nation he had the answers to fix it.

Not even going to get into how he's now whining that they underestimated the mess.

Further proof he had no idea what he was doing to begin with, and was unqualified to make those claims.

And he has consistently put his partisan politics ahead of the best interests of the country, i.e., forcing Obamacare through instead of addressing the economy, even laughably suggesting Obamacare would actually HELP the economy.

This is analogous to a family who is deep in credit debt and whose income is becoming unstable deciding now would be a good time to take out a second mortgage to remodel the living room.

So it's not that these guys ALONE were the problem, it's how horribly they mismanaged their responsibilities.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree to disagree. Or as Jimmy Page would say, "Do what thou wilt"!

We always do....have a good one, my Zeppelin brother!

:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No confusion on my part. I was referring to Reagan's October Surprise, which was/is much more than a conspiracy theory.

Both houses of the US Congress held separate inquiries and concluded that the allegations lacked supporting documentation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw on the news last night that Romney is a mormon.

Doesn't that render him unelectable to most Americans? And if not, why not?

What's the problem with Mormons? Should we have one?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw on the news last night that Romney is a mormon.

Doesn't that render him unelectable to most Americans? And if not, why not?

It's a little whacky for sure but the current failure-and-chief's religion is to be a black supremacist America hater. His church was always screaming about the white devil and how evil America is. He claimed he never heard any of these things every single week. The only way you can get worse than that is if an al queda member ran for president.

muslim-obama.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw on the news last night that Romney is a mormon.

Doesn't that render him unelectable to most Americans? And if not, why not?

Well, MM, I guess you just got your answer above....:blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm serious MM, why would you even ask that question? I don't agree with the Mormon version of Christianity but I don't know anyone who has a problem with it per se. By and large Mormons are peaceful, family centered, and perhaps a bit bland if I can be indulged in a stereotype. A stereotype that has been lovingly lampooned by the South Park guys in the popular "Book of Mormon" on Broadway.

Seems like a strange question, it's not as if Mormons have been troublemakers over here for the most part. Just viewed as another religion in a land of many religions. Whatever religion you practice, somebody is going to view it as "weird".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0