Slate Chocolate Marble
Slate Chocolate Marble

Led Zeppelin Official Forum

Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to contribute to this site by submitting your own content or replying to existing content. You'll be able to customize your profile, while also communicating with other members via your own private inbox, plus much more! This message will be removed once you have signed in.

jpenzabene

Pontiac Silverdome 1977

227 posts in this topic

But they do, that's why they hoard the tapes.

Say, I was just perusing some of my archive posts, and I was wondering why yer name looked so familiar to me, ledhed...we've danced before on this forum...

So, speaking of hoarding tapes, ledhed, whatever became of the Houston '77 video you claimed to have seen back in May :lol: :

(go to post #88 in that discussion for a look at more of ledhed's bullshit claims...some things never change, I see...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I do remember that. Good one Nutrocker! :yesnod:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh yeah, because you can just tell the 'traders' who own all these 1975 and 1977 soundboards we've seen pop up over the years were in so much of a hurry to distribute them to the masses without the help of EVSD, etc :lol::rolleyes:

I'd suggest you read Bootleg: The Secret History Of The Other Recording Industry by Clinton Heylin some time (if you haven't already)...the original tapers who started this little cottage industry over fourty years ago weren't exactly doing it to, like, 'share the tooonz, maaaaan'...they were taping them shows because they knew there was money in it! And you better believe some of those guys were fuckin' rolling in it before too long.

Sure, traders have shared out a lot of previously uncirculated audience recordings over they years without the assistance of bootleg companies (and more often than not ended up having their tapes bootlegged eventually anyway), but I'd be brazen to say that for every recording that is being shared out there's one being hoarded...don't hold any illusions that tapers and so-called traders can't be as greedy as bootleg labels. Ask yerself: how often do you see a new previously uncirculated soundboard recording come out through kindhearted 'traders'? Answer: hardly ever.

I can guarantee you that if the Pontiac '77 pro shot exists (or any of the other pro shot concerts we've seen mentioned in this discussion) it's ain't gonna make it out to the masses through kind, well meaning tape traders. No, we'll see it come out through EVSD or Godfather or some bootleg label because the people who actually possess these films know goddamn well what they are worth, and fuckin' A, they're gonna get whatever they can for them. And ya know, ya can't really fault them for that. These guys aren't schmucks; they're not dumb by any stretch of the imagination.

As much as I'd love to believe that the music trading community (online or otherwise) is all about sharing, friendliness and kindness to their fellow man/woman, the harsh reality has been that that usually isn't the case. The amount of backstabbing, double dealing, and misrepresentation that goes on is actually pretty sick. As 'evil' as bootleg companies can be, the worst tape trading stories I've heard of over the years had nothing to do with bootleggers. As I said earlier, bootleggers are a necessary evil when it comes to unofficial live music, they're a business like any other, and run off of supply and demand like any other business.

:goodpost:

Spot on, Nutrocker! You pretty much encapsulated my felings about the 'trading community' vs. 'bootleg companies' debate perfectly.

I've always felt the bootleggers, whether TMoQ and Rubber Dubber in the old days or Godfatherecords and EVSD today, were a necessary evil.

This idea that all tapers/traders are benevolent peace and love hippies that want to share the music and the bootleggers are evil is simplistic poppycock.

All you got to do is think about the Freezer Fiasco and the hissy fit that Freezer threw and refused to share his New Orleans audience tape, and you can see that the taping community is not as Pollyanna-ish as they would like you to believe.

There are some real psychos you have to deal with sometimes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This idea that all tapers/traders are benevolent peace and love hippies that want to share the music and the bootleggers are evil is simplistic poppycock.

All you got to do is think about the Freezer Fiasco and the hissy fit that Freezer threw and refused to share his New Orleans audience tape, and you can see that the taping community is not as Pollyanna-ish as they would like you to believe.

There are some real psychos you have to deal with sometimes.

Strider, reading the huge ass "Freezer's Revenge" discussion over at the site where the NOLA '73 audience tape was first uploaded was the single most revealing document I have ever read regarding tape trading and bootleggers. Some of the shitty double dealing and outright betrayal discussed in that thread had a lot to do with forming my basic opinions not only about how low Zeppelin collectors can go but the hobby in general. I admit I'm pretty cynical at the best of times, but you can't help but become a bit of a cynic after reading about that 'fiasco' as you put it (and it's as good of a description as any). And, as I've said before, Freezer wasn't the bad guy in that scenario that so many people wanted to make him out to be; he knew exactly what he was doing :lol: and I must admit that I salute the man for bringing it all out into the open (I miss that guy!)

I think "psycho" is too harsh a word, though...although I will concede that it sounds like some of these so-called collectors do have some mental issues to work out. As I've said before, these tapes only hold value to maybe 0.00001% of the population. Anybody who uses tape trading/collecting as some kind of a status symbol in their lives clearly has some inadequacy issues they need to get sorted out pronto. Why people insist on lying, spreading bullshit rumours or outright cheating other collectors is something I'll never figure out for the life of me. They're just concert recordings, y'all. The fate of the world doesn't rest on these things...

Edited by Nutrocker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Soooo, who else wants to talk about Pontiac? :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Soooo, who else wants to talk about Pontiac? :D

I'd love to...but until I see the video or hear a tape from the show, I'm not qualified to say anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Soooo, who else wants to talk about Pontiac? :D

Do you have the audience recording, Sue?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Naturally, it's my favorite '77 show!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Naturally, it's my favorite '77 show!

You're favourite, really? Since there's no OTHAFA in the setlist, and that was one of the high points of the concerts for me, I'm skeptical of calling any '77 show lacking OTHAFA the best.

What's the sound quality like on your audience tape?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're favourite, really? Since there's no OTHAFA in the setlist, and that was one of the high points of the concerts for me, I'm skeptical of calling any '77 show lacking OTHAFA the best.

+1!!! OTHAFA improved the '77 setlist big time!

But Strider, you did also attend 6/25/77, right? IMHO, the strongest IMTOD from the '77 tour, especially with Robert ripping into Little Richard "Rip It Up" towards the end so vocally powerful! And I did love the only CB performed that tour that night...but I digress, back to Pontiac!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I listen to the audience recording once a year. What's interesting is that it's not the music that jogs my memories, but the firecrackers and M-80s during the show. There were bombs going off in that place, and I especially remember the screaming bottle rocket during Stairway. Like LTTE, the best part of this show is probably the opener because of the audience going absolutely insane. I'm proud to say the spirit of the crowd comes thru this terrible recording, as Robert pleads several times for people to maintain up front. I Also like Robert's spirited ending to NFBM....he nails it. Although it doesn't come thru on the recording, the acoustic set had a special vibe. Once it began, most of the floor crowd suddenly sat down indian-style....like they were sitting around a campfire with Led Zeppelin. A couple minutes earlier, you would have sworn that was impossible.

It was always our theory that the distant audience recording came from one of the private suites above the third level. It sounded distant because it was.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd love to...but until I see the video or hear a tape from the show, I'm not qualified to say anything.

You don't have the Pontiac audience recording, Strider? We should talk...it's not the greatest tape by any stretch of the imagination, but it's definitely worth hearing...

Bong Man's firsthand description of the atmosphere of the gig is spot on, BTW- the audience tape certainly captures it in all its rockets red glare style glory!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Naturally, it's my favorite '77 show!

Might I ask, outta curiosity, why Pontiac is yer favourite?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're favourite, really? Since there's no OTHAFA in the setlist, and that was one of the high points of the concerts for me, I'm skeptical of calling any '77 show lacking OTHAFA the best.

+1!!! OTHAFA improved the '77 setlist big time!

But Strider, you did also attend 6/25/77, right? IMHO, the strongest IMTOD from the '77 tour, especially with Robert ripping into Little Richard "Rip It Up" towards the end so vocally powerful! And I did love the only CB performed that tour that night...but I digress, back to Pontiac!

Yes, that is correct. And it was because the Saturday 6-25 gig was so good and they played a couple different songs(IMTOD and CB) that I didn't sell my tix for 6-26 and 6-27 and went ahead and attended the shows even though it was exhausting.

But it is also precisely why I it is double the pain that I didn't go to the 6-22 concert...of all the ones I went to, I missed the ONE night of the six that they played both OTHAFA and IMTOD!!!

Yes, I realize it may seem bad form and a trifle greedy to complain about missing one Led Zeppelin concert when I still was able to see the other five that week, but there it is. I can't help it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But Strider, you did also attend 6/25/77, right? IMHO, the strongest IMTOD from the '77 tour, especially with Robert ripping into Little Richard "Rip It Up" towards the end so vocally powerful! And I did love the only CB performed that tour that night...but I digress, back to Pontiac!

That "Rip It Up" bit is just so fantastic. Really love it - esp. since it'd be the last-ever IMTOD (well, until 2007 anyway).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Might I ask, outta curiosity, why Pontiac is yer favourite?

A few reasons, actually. I've liked this show alot for a long while now, even before I ever heard it. At first, it was the reputation that the show carried that interested me. The fact that it had an attendance record of 76,229 people, was the finale of the first leg of their "big comeback" tour, and it is legendary (sorry about using EVSD promotion words) for being professionally filmed, and from what I read it was a pretty decent performance, all picqued (is that how you spell it?) my curiosity. I couldn't find any way to listen to it, until someone uploaded it to YouTube, and I fell in love with it almost instantly. Weirdly enough, I like the way the audience source sounds, despite being somewhat distant. The performance is great to me. TSRTS sounds pretty strong, I love the brief 'stop and start' break in The Rover intro, and Sick Again is pretty good too. NBFBM is also very strong. IMToD and SIBLY are full of feeling from Plant. Although to be honest, the No Quarter from this show isn't exactly one of my favourites, the jam is a little subpar compared to other versions from this tour. TYG is as excellent if not better than either of the Cleveland versions. The acoustic set is very good, aside from the barrage of firecrackers during GtC.

White Summer is short but sweet as it leads into an extremely heavy and powerful Kashmir. This particular Over the Top is one of my favourites, it's a shame that it's cut short. The Noise Solo should've been a little longer, as it leads into the pinnacle of the entire show, my very favourite version of Achilles' Last Stand ever! Everyone is firing off on all cylinders, every part is perfect, and the tape makes it sound just so heavy! I love how softly Jimmy plays the opening medley, especially compared to the way it was played through most of the May performances. It really belies how strong the rest of the song is going to be.

Stairway is good, though I feel the solo could've been a minute longer. The encores are as decent as usual, though they could've done another number since it was the end of the first leg. All in all a great performance that I (like many others) can't wait to see someday.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A few reasons, actually. I've liked this show alot for a long while now, even before I ever heard it. At first, it was the reputation that the show carried that interested me. The fact that it had an attendance record of 76,229 people, was the finale of the first leg of their "big comeback" tour, and it is legendary (sorry about using EVSD promotion words) for being professionally filmed, and from what I read it was a pretty decent performance, all picqued (is that how you spell it?) my curiosity. I couldn't find any way to listen to it, until someone uploaded it to YouTube, and I fell in love with it almost instantly. Weirdly enough, I like the way the audience source sounds, despite being somewhat distant. The performance is great to me. TSRTS sounds pretty strong, I love the brief 'stop and start' break in The Rover intro, and Sick Again is pretty good too. NBFBM is also very strong. IMToD and SIBLY are full of feeling from Plant. Although to be honest, the No Quarter from this show isn't exactly one of my favourites, the jam is a little subpar compared to other versions from this tour. TYG is as excellent if not better than either of the Cleveland versions. The acoustic set is very good, aside from the barrage of firecrackers during GtC.

White Summer is short but sweet as it leads into an extremely heavy and powerful Kashmir. This particular Over the Top is one of my favourites, it's a shame that it's cut short. The Noise Solo should've been a little longer, as it leads into the pinnacle of the entire show, my very favourite version of Achilles' Last Stand ever! Everyone is firing off on all cylinders, every part is perfect, and the tape makes it sound just so heavy! I love how softly Jimmy plays the opening medley, especially compared to the way it was played through most of the May performances. It really belies how strong the rest of the song is going to be.

Stairway is good, though I feel the solo could've been a minute longer. The encores are as decent as usual, though they could've done another number since it was the end of the first leg. All in all a great performance that I (like many others) can't wait to see someday.

+1 on Achilles, but I think that the No Quarter from this show is fantastic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A few reasons, actually. I've liked this show alot for a long while now, even before I ever heard it. At first, it was the reputation that the show carried that interested me. The fact that it had an attendance record of 76,229 people, was the finale of the first leg of their "big comeback" tour, and it is legendary (sorry about using EVSD promotion words) for being professionally filmed, and from what I read it was a pretty decent performance, all picqued (is that how you spell it?) my curiosity. I couldn't find any way to listen to it, until someone uploaded it to YouTube, and I fell in love with it almost instantly. Weirdly enough, I like the way the audience source sounds, despite being somewhat distant. The performance is great to me. TSRTS sounds pretty strong, I love the brief 'stop and start' break in The Rover intro, and Sick Again is pretty good too. NBFBM is also very strong. IMToD and SIBLY are full of feeling from Plant. Although to be honest, the No Quarter from this show isn't exactly one of my favourites, the jam is a little subpar compared to other versions from this tour. TYG is as excellent if not better than either of the Cleveland versions. The acoustic set is very good, aside from the barrage of firecrackers during GtC.

White Summer is short but sweet as it leads into an extremely heavy and powerful Kashmir. This particular Over the Top is one of my favourites, it's a shame that it's cut short. The Noise Solo should've been a little longer, as it leads into the pinnacle of the entire show, my very favourite version of Achilles' Last Stand ever! Everyone is firing off on all cylinders, every part is perfect, and the tape makes it sound just so heavy! I love how softly Jimmy plays the opening medley, especially compared to the way it was played through most of the May performances. It really belies how strong the rest of the song is going to be.

Stairway is good, though I feel the solo could've been a minute longer. The encores are as decent as usual, though they could've done another number since it was the end of the first leg. All in all a great performance that I (like many others) can't wait to see someday.

:goodpost::bravo::yourock:

I've been intrigued by the Pontiac show ever since the news was announced in 1977 that it set another attendance record and from seeing photos of the gig in Creem magazine. I was fascinated by the big bulky cameras on stage. But hearing some of the other lackluster April '77 shows lessened my desire to hear Pontiac after awhile.

But Sue, dear Sue...your wonderful and well-stated post has renewed my interest in Pontiac even higher. There haven't been too many April-May '77 shows that I consider essential listening...even the Cleveland shows suffer in comparison to the June shows. But after reading your post, Sue, I'm going to put Pontiac on my to-do list.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A few reasons, actually...

Ah, yer a true '77 fan thru and thru, Sue...I remember some guy ranting on me something along the lines of, "How can you judge the Pontiac show based on that recording??!!" :lol::rolleyes: I mean, it's not that bad...

Are there any '77 shows you haven't heard, Sue?

There haven't been too many April-May '77 shows that I consider essential listening...even the Cleveland shows suffer in comparison to the June shows. But after reading your post, Sue, I'm going to put Pontiac on my to-do list.

Didja get the PM I sent ya, Strider?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, yer a true '77 fan thru and thru, Sue...I remember some guy ranting on me something along the lines of, "How can you judge the Pontiac show based on that recording??!!" :lol::rolleyes: I mean, it's not that bad...

Are there any '77 shows you haven't heard, Sue?

Didja get the PM I sent ya, Strider?

Sorry Nutrocker...I get so busy sometimes I forget to keep track of my PMs...I just checked and yes, I did get your PMs. Thank you very much!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:goodpost::bravo::yourock:

I've been intrigued by the Pontiac show ever since the news was announced in 1977 that it set another attendance record and from seeing photos of the gig in Creem magazine. I was fascinated by the big bulky cameras on stage. But hearing some of the other lackluster April '77 shows lessened my desire to hear Pontiac after awhile.

But Sue, dear Sue...your wonderful and well-stated post has renewed my interest in Pontiac even higher. There haven't been too many April-May '77 shows that I consider essential listening...even the Cleveland shows suffer in comparison to the June shows. But after reading your post, Sue, I'm going to put Pontiac on my to-do list.

Ah, yer a true '77 fan thru and thru, Sue...I remember some guy ranting on me something along the lines of, "How can you judge the Pontiac show based on that recording??!!" :lol::rolleyes: I mean, it's not that bad...

Are there any '77 shows you haven't heard, Sue?

Aah, such high praise! It means a lot to hear that from two of the most famous members of this site! Most definitely the highlight of day! :)

The audience source sounds fine to me, it isn't nearly as bad as 1977/04/23. That's a show I rarely listen to, only because of the tape quality. I do find it unbelieveable that there's only one audience tape out of 76,229 people. We have shows like 1970/09/04 where there are 6 sources and not even 1/2 that many people are there. For all we know, there could be a tape that sounds as good as a Milard tape somewhere out there. Hell, if I wanna make some really wild accusations, I bet somebody has the multitracks of this show. And to answer your question, Nutrocker, I have heard every '77 show, it's definitely my favourite tour. I've been really getting into the '75 tour lately, but '77 will always be my #1.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aah, such high praise! It means a lot to hear that from two of the most famous members of this site! Most definitely the highlight of day! :)

The audience source sounds fine to me, it isn't nearly as bad as 1977/04/23. That's a show I rarely listen to, only because of the tape quality. I do find it unbelieveable that there's only one audience tape out of 76,229 people. We have shows like 1970/09/04 where there are 6 sources and not even 1/2 that many people are there. For all we know, there could be a tape that sounds as good as a Milard tape somewhere out there. Hell, if I wanna make some really wild accusations, I bet somebody has the multitracks of this show. And to answer your question, Nutrocker, I have heard every '77 show, it's definitely my favourite tour. I've been really getting into the '75 tour lately, but '77 will always be my #1.

Haha yeah...the 23/4 tape from Atlanta is quite unlistenable....From what i know, the dude that taped the show had placed the tape recorder under his seat (!!) so tha'ts why the tracks sound so boomy and muddy.When i had to upload the particular gig on a bootleg site i gave it only 5/10 but i still think i have overrated it :lol: .....(Anyway, Bloomington 1970 or Wembley Empire Pool 1971 must be the worst recordings EVER)

As for the Silverdome, i have the same feeling with Sue: I can't understand how is it possible among 76,229 people having ONLY ONE dinstant, moderate and not so enjoyable recording.I mean, nobody else felt like keeping a record from that epic show ? As far as the Pro-shot footage is concerned, i would like to give some hope among the forum's commuinty by saying that Who's new dvd release with footage from The Summit in Houston, Texas on November 20th 1975 was found recently (circa 2010) in a very old box in the venue's office by someone from the Summit's staff and given to a collector who finally sold it to Who.....What if something like that happened with the Pontiac footage ? I know that Jimmy maybe wouldn't have officially released it but i am sure that EVSD would have something done about it....Personally i give about 10 more years for the video to come out....We 'll see people....

Edited by LiveWire1979

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aah, such high praise! It means a lot to hear that from two of the most famous members of this site! Most definitely the highlight of day! :)

I reckon I'm probably more infamous than famous... :lol:

Haha yeah...the 23/4 tape from Atlanta is quite unlistenable....From what i know, the dude that taped the show had placed the tape recorder under his seat (!!) so tha'ts why the tracks sound so boomy and muddy.When i had to upload the particular gig on a bootleg site i gave it only 5/10 but i still think i have overrated it :lol: .....(Anyway, Bloomington 1970 or Wembley Empire Pool 1971 must be the worst recordings EVER)

Correct about the guy keeping the recorder under his seat on 23/4/77...notice how the sound on the recording clears up when he's checking how much tape he has left; the dummy shoulda just kept the damn recorder in his lap or something. Underneath all that distortion is the first really good 1977 show!

As for the Silverdome, i have the same feeling with Sue: I can't understand how is it possible among 76,229 people having ONLY ONE dinstant, moderate and not so enjoyable recording.I mean, nobody else felt like keeping a record from that epic show ?

Yeah...like I said earlier, there's at least three audience recordings for the Seattle show, which was almost as big as Pontiac. I know there were some good tapers in the Detroit area in those days...it is indeed hard to believe that only one recording has ever surfaced for the Pontiac show, but that's all we've got so far...at least a 1st gen copy popped up a couple years back, it's a damnsight better than the old Hot Rods In Pontiac boot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still believe that this show was filmed.

Duh. That's never been questioned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now