mielazul Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Hey JP78 - I said I wouldn't beat it to death anymore, but to answer your question, it seems that Jimmy started smoking and then the guy was quite clear that he didn't like it. As ridiculous as the smoking thing might seem, I thought it was an instructive example to bring up. In some of the other things in the book that I objected to, I felt there was another side to the stories that readers possibly weren't thinking about due to the spin of the people being quoted (there was at least one incident that I thought was patently untrue, but I won't beat that to death either). But I thought the smoking thing was different, because it was simple, everybody seemed to agree on the details in question...and I thought people would agree with me that Jimmy was being portrayed in a bad light when he wasn't being bad at all. To my surprise, the people that chimed in - just a few so far it should be said - did not agree with me. When presented with a scenario where JImmy is being picked up in a car by a record company guy in the middle of a very intense stressful gig...and Jimmy, being a smoker and super-agitated to boot, naturally wants a cigarette....and this guy (who is being paid to take care of Jimmy, and acknowledges that he has mental problems) is ready to "knock Jimmy out" because he doesn't want him to smoke...and Jimmy got "ugly" about it, etc.... Well, like I said above, I thought for sure people would think like me and go "Let Jimmy smoke for god's sake," and certainly not think he was an asshole for getting upset that his driver was ready to "knock him out" to keep him from smoking. But I was wrong. People thought Jimmy was being a diva and a jerk, apparently. And that's that. Everybody understands the scenario, and there's nothing to argue about, I guess. People just look at it differently. I'm surprised...but I'm surprised by a lot of things here. Oh, and to answer your question about Jones and Bonham, I'd say there were some interesting observations about Jones, but not as much as about the other three (no surprise there) and with Bonzo, it was fleshed out a bit more...maybe a lot more...but it was the picture we've been getting for years...he was a loving family man and also a loose cannon...who by the later era was capable of sudden, shocking acts of violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Shep Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 WTF, you won't let it go, will you? Listen up. If you are driving a car that you consider to be 'yours', and if you are a non-smoker, then it is your prerogative to insist that people don't smoke in it - and you have a right to expect them to accept your request. Doesn't matter if it's Jimmy Page, the Queen Of England or some cheap hooker. If JP wanted to carry on smoking, he should've either stayed outside until he'd finished, or got the fuck out. Manners maketh man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTM Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 ^^ F***ing hell mielazul, How many more times are you going to mention the smoking incident. Just try and get it into your head Page was in a privately owned vehicle that was not his nor did it belong to the record company. Page is just a Guitar player in a reasonably successful rock band he is nobody special. David Bates was well within his rights to tell Page not to smoke. If it had been me i'd have told the arrogant prick to get the fuck out of my car and walk. Like Bates said he was'nt Page's chauffer he was just giving him a lift as a favour back to his hotel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Shep Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 ^^ Furthermore, the fact that JP appears to have borne a grudge about such a trivial matter speaks volumes of his arrogance and sheer pettiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTM Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 ^^ Furthermore, the fact that JP appears to have borne a grudge about such a trivial matter speaks volumes of his arrogance and sheer pettiness. Indeed. Seems to me Page suffers from a bad case of SBS (spoilt brat syndrome). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mielazul Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Old Shep and JTM have quite the tag team going on me right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mielazul Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Is this the manners you're talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Be it the 12 string/6 string thing or the smoking issue Mielazu has a total hard on for it for someone who wasn't there as well as saying that Levfre said that Page's main interest with the 02 was the merchandising which is not what Levfre said at all. I could care less about Levfre but when I see someone accusing another of character assassination & then does it themselves all I can say is that it's totally hypocritical. Was misquoting Levfre by Mielazu intentional to serve his biased view of Lefvre or an accident by not remembering the quote on merchandising for what is was? If Levfre has a biased axe to grind with Page then Levfre has a biased admirer in Mielazu from Mielazu's venomous attacks against Levfre's recollections of his personal encounters with the band members. Mielazu is a huge fan of the 77 tour he has admitted & he has stated the he is tired of hearing negative things about Page's playing on that tour, that's when personal bias sets in against Levfre & the character assassination begins despite that Levfre was actually there to give an account, something Mielazu cannot claim but nitpick on because it doesn't fit his view. And some people resent the term "fanboy" when it's applied... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Melanie Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Sometimes former employees and associates actually tell the truth because they have nothing to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melcórë Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Sometimes former employees and associates actually tell the truth because they have nothing to lose. ...Or, you know, they embellish their stories or only highlight the negative ones. Or they make things up, being desperate - not unlike the lies one will tell when tortured. Again, my problem with the majority of the posts in this thread: There is no healthy skepticism, just outright belief in whatever has been read. It reminds me of the people who bought into - and continue to buy into - the false stories told by John Bannister, the doctor who pronounced Hendrix dead. I'll not post anymore about this book until I've actually read it. I have it on order, and should receive it by the beginning of next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Shep Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I'll not post anymore about this book until I've actually read it. That sounds like a pretty good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 ...Or, you know, they embellish their stories or only highlight the negative ones. Or they make things up, being desperate - not unlike the lies one will tell when tortured. Again, my problem with the majority of the posts in this thread: There is no healthy skepticism, just outright belief in whatever has been read. It reminds me of the people who bought into - and continue to buy into - the false stories told by John Bannister, the doctor who pronounced Hendrix dead. I'll not post anymore about this book until I've actually read it. I have it on order, and should receive it by the beginning of next week. I haven't seen one instance here of anyone outright believing anyone's personal accounts in Hoskyn's book, however I see numerous instances of personal accounts in the book being called outright lies by a segment of people who simply don't like what was said in the book. Not liking what was said does not make what was said a lie so that accusation is only that, an accusation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Melanie Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 ...Or, you know, they embellish their stories or only highlight the negative ones. Or they make things up, being desperate - not unlike the lies one will tell when tortured. Again, my problem with the majority of the posts in this thread: There is no healthy skepticism, just outright belief in whatever has been read. It reminds me of the people who bought into - and continue to buy into - the false stories told by John Bannister, the doctor who pronounced Hendrix dead. I'll not post anymore about this book until I've actually read it. I have it on order, and should receive it by the beginning of next week. Wait! What?! You haven't read the book?! Read the freakimg book, then share your opinion. What you have done is talk out of your rear end. EDIT: for grammatical error Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mielazul Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 This is getting like a farcical exorcism now..."We must cleanse the thread of the evil Mielazul who dares to disagree with us and defends the Satanic Jimmy Page." Come on guys, come out and say it together: "THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU!!! THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU!!!" How's all this for manners now Shep? You happy with how this has turned? Maybe it's okay when people agree with you. Somebody ASKED me about the smoking thing by the way. I had already agreed it was a dead horse, but I thought I should answer the guy. I suppose you think I got too wordy and reopened things unnecessarily, and maybe you're right. But I'm not really a "Three words followed by LOL" kind of guy. A bit of a dinosaur, I guess. Happy New Year..again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Shep Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 But I'm not really a "Three words followed by LOL" kind of guy. That's good, because we already have one of those. And that's one too many. However, you do appear to be a 'Look At Me' type of guy. Nothing wrong with that. But when you've said something once, why say it again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mielazul Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Like I said, somebody asked me about the smoking. And I suppose I got too wordy in my reply, as I also said. I don't think I've been a "look at me" type except in the Landover Soundboard thread, when I was going for some laughs...probably unsuccessfully. Kind of feeling the forum out, you know? And I was kind of making fun of myself, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth and beauty Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 There is no healthy skepticism, just outright belief in whatever has been read. I'm not sure why we have to see Jimmy, Bonzo, whoever, either in black or white. Surely all human nature is, to some degree, malleable, corruptible, easily affected by extreme experiences : war, abuse, poverty, narcotics... even rock and roll. Politeness, morality, decency aren't fixed things : sure, we value people who can retain them, but most of the time we recognise they can get compromised. I'm not sure why that's a difficult concept ? Isn't the simple point that Jimmy is - probably - both a spoilt brat , AND a complete sweetheart ? And that one person's description of one or other incident is a small piece in a huge jigsaw? Can't we appreciate their contribution, but add in a bit of perspective and a pinch of salt ? Complexity is normal - I don't want two-dimensional angels or devils, nor would I expect to make an absolute judgement about anyone - Led Zeppelin member or other - unless I knew them, myself, really well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
335N54 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Can't imagine what it is like to have someone write in detail about parts of your professional and personal life. It is certainly part of the package of being an successful entertainer. I mean in the process of running a business (or in this case a super group) you have employees and relationships that range from lifelong friendships to ugly separations. So you take these guys in their 20's or early 30's over a grueling 12 year period of travel, creative pressure, hard work, lack of sleep and a good number of employees involved. Then mix in some drugs and alcohol? You are going to get a few pissed off people no matter what. Considering the exposure these guys had to others out on the road and making records this book should be about the size of War and Peace with accounts and shear BS from disgruntle employees or associates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mielazul Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Not sure what just happened here, but if this is a hint for everyone to cool it, I'm happy to comply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mielazul Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Has anyone noticed that some pages seem to have disappeared? That's what I meant by cooling it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadecatcher Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Actually, I was just reminded by a personal message about something I posted earlier on this thread. But my post is not here now. Does someone monitor what is being said and edit according to some rule? In my case I was posing a question and an idea, not tearing anyone apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie29 Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Actually, I was just reminded by a personal message about something I posted earlier on this thread. But my post is not here now. Does someone monitor what is being said and edit according to some rule? In my case I was posing a question and an idea, not tearing anyone apart. Yes they are monitored (I wonder if PM's are too?) and there are rules regarding content, criticism of the band / members and forum behaviour among others. Someone must've posted something deemed as inappropriate although I didn't see anything too bad (there is at least one dodgy post still up IMO), the most recent posts have been deleted and I have seen / read worse. Remember this is a forum not a democracy, so freedom of speech along with an explanation as to why they were deleted isn't always given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Shep Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I can't spot anything that's been excised. I don't think any of my posts have been pulled. I wonder if Hoskyns had to pass this by the lawyers first? Never mind the imminent re-releases - I'd just love to see the out-takes from this book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Self-deception anyone? Glad to see the removal of the psychological rot that had been spewed about Jimmy Page by the arbiters of social morality. Talk about disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrybonzo Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 shouldn't there be 9 pages of posts about the corruption of government and illegal wars and how the people are going to reclaim their freedoms, rather than what jimmy did in 1994? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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