Barney Hoskyns book

[Deborah J]

^^Knebby and Shadecatcher are absolutely correct. The riders are part of a contract and are completely confidential..as we sign confidential agreements. They (whether it be Rock Stars, Movie Stars, Athletic Stars, etc.) are entitled to their privacy while staying at certain venues (in my case a hotel). I stated this somewhere before, we are not allowed to contact them unless it is business related. PERIOD! No Exceptions. We are not allowed to say that they are staying with us or leak anything out about them, not even to our family. You can lose your job, as it should be!

So I will live with many great memories that will be forever confidential:-)

[Glyn]

Thanks for the info. I know they are not generally accessible, but tour riders do leak out from time to time as viewable here http://www.thesmokin....com/backstage.

Strider's comment about brown M&Ms is a specific in Van Halen's 1982 tour rider which got me to thinking about a LZ one. I should have known that one hasn't surfaced, I would have heard about it already. All ethics/legal issues aside, I still feel they are a fascinating read.

[Knebby]

I have about 200 in a file, and I have to say I never had to sign any confidentially agreements, nor is it stated anywhere on them that they have to remain confidential - I guess rules are different in the UK maybe? Anyway, I think that if you have access to them as part of your job you do tend to keep them to yourself anyway, just in case.

Iggy Pop's ( which is online) is one of the funniest I've ever read.

[Deborah J]

Thanks for the info. I know they are not generally accessible, but tour riders do leak out from time to time as viewable here http://www.thesmokin....com/backstage.

Strider's comment about brown M&Ms is a specific in Van Halen's 1982 tour rider which got me to thinking about a LZ one. I should have known that one hasn't surfaced, I would have heard about it already. All ethics/legal issues aside, I still feel they are a fascinating read.

Some are interesting some are not:-) You should see the rider if you host a sitting President!! It compares to nothing from anyone else famous (at least here in the US). I hope I shed a little light on this from the perspective of my job, and understand that these people deserve their privacy just as anyone does

Sorry to go off topic to the thread host.

[Knebby]

Some are interesting some are not:-) You should see the rider if you host a sitting President!! It compares to nothing from anyone else famous (at least here in the US). I hope I shed a little light on this from the perspective of my job, and understand that these people deserve their privacy just as anyone does

Too right!

Sorry to go off topic to the thread host.

Ditto

[Shadecatcher]

Deborah J and Knebby:

I worked for about 15 years as a PR director which meant I was responsible for a wide range of personalities, quite a few high profile book authors like JK Rowling, and worked a couple of times with Bill Wyman who is a lovely man. There were other musicians too and I wrote for a while for a couple of music related magazines. Have to say some of the most wonderful people I've met are artistically terrific but not necessarily headliners. Now I work mostly in film and as a book to film agent. Music has always been a big part of my life as I was married to a musician for 25 years. I empathize with the need for a division between private and public life and the toll it takes on any artist. When you work closely with someone over a period of time you do get to know them, some more than others, and it is natural that you keep that interaction private. Any PR person who talks about what goes on and who said what is not going to working in that field very long either. Above all it's business, and I guess because I've worked as I have, I am sort of jaded - I don't see that having a high profile life is necessarily interesting or exciting given what you give up. My real interest has always been working with like-minded creative people and I've been lucky to have had that.

Re the rider situation - there are legal riders that attach to contracts and those would or should be locked away as any contract would be. Riders for venue set up or media interviews will be much more accessible as you'll sometimes even see media inject some of the points in their writing. Some are over the top but really the point is to make sure your talent is comfortable so they can concentrate on their work and give a great show. If that means no one in the green room except the performer and silence pre show then you do it, etc.

Deborah it sounds like we might have worked in similar circles.

[Magic Fills the Air]

I've just ordered this book. The reviews look good so far. The material seems to be more substantial than Tolinski's book which I'm finding quite disappointing. I'm looking forward to reading it over Christmas.

[Texas Melanie]

It is an enjoyable read and very informative. I am glad you feel the same way as I do about Tolinski's book. It seemed that he was appeasing Jimmy by not revealing much about him which makes for a very uninteresting read. I don't need to know about mudsharks but what makes the man tick? What are his thoughts and feelings concerning his career and the world around him?

[Strider]

Thanks Magic and Melanie...I've been on the fence about getting Brad's book; mainly because I already have all the interviews in the original Guitar World issues. Your takes on the book confirmed my doubts, so I'll take a pass.

If Barney Hoskyn's book isn't under the tree Christmas morning then I'll get it at the bookshop.

[Kiwi_Zep_Fan87]

I initially placed an order for Tolinski's book but after reading all the rather negative reviews about it and after coming across this book by Barney Hoskyns and all the positive reviews with regard to what an informative read it actually is, I took the plunge and changed my mind and ordered Barney Hoskyns' book instead and cancelled my order for Tolinski's book!

And honestly, Strider, Magic and Miss Melanie, if you guys think that Barney Hoskyns' book is a good read then I really don't think I am going to regret my decision of ordering that instead because I firmly believe that you guys always make the right call! Thanks for the warning on Tolinski's book! Much appreciated!

[Old Shep]

I don't need to know about mudsharks but what makes the man tick?

good as the book is i dont think we really find out what makes him tick, plenty though about what made him almost stop ticking

[FireOpal]

The debauchery angle has been exhaustively covered - I don't need to hear any more o' that, thank you. "Never mind the mudsharks" says I, but bring on the music.

Hoskyns is a good writer - I read his book on the Laurel Canyon scene, or meant to. Anyway, he's well regarded.

[Shadecatcher]

It is an enjoyable read and very informative. I am glad you feel the same way as I do about Tolinski's book. It seemed that he was appeasing Jimmy by not revealing much about him which makes for a very uninteresting read. I don't need to know about mudsharks but what makes the man tick? What are his thoughts and feelings concerning his career and the world around him?

Brad's book strikes me exactly as you say, "appeasing Jimmy," Melanie. I know way less about the guy than anyone here by a long mile I am sure, and Brad's book didn't exactly change that. But, he's a very capable writer so it is readable and general enough for someone who just wants to know the broad strokes about the kingpin of the band.

[jabe]

"For Jimmy, Zeppelin is like a love affair that he's never gotten over and he wants to go back there, it's the great fact of his life - as it would be for you or I. But it isn't to Robert." - Barney Hoskyns

[Shadecatcher]

"For Jimmy, Zeppelin is like a love affair that he's never gotten over and he wants to go back there, it's the great fact of his life - as it would be for you or I. But it isn't to Robert." - Barney Hoskyns

That is very sad.

[Reggie29]

This should be an interesting read.

Whether or not it is just covering the same old worn out stuff available in most books, remains to be seen.

Of all the passages to quote from the book, why was the one that is by and large a veiled swipe at Robert Plant chosen?

Anyone who has seen Jason Bonham's interview will know why he doesn't want "to go there" and to rational people that should be enough, but, it isn't.

Regardless, I'll no doubt get it sooner or later.

I purchased Wall's book and it really wasn't much different to what I'd read before.

Also, what is all this negativity toward Brad Tolinski's book?

So what if it's only a collection of Guitar World interviews, at least they're all captured in one tome.

I for one don't have all those magazines.

I want a book that gives me credible information about the music, how it was made etc, not crap about the occult and other second-hand bullshit.

Only a biography written by Jimmy or any other survivng member would do that, with a bit of luck this will come close.

[Percys_Plant]

So far so good with the book. Almost has a documentary feel to it while reading.

[scythe]

"For Jimmy, Zeppelin is like a love affair that he's never gotten over and he wants to go back there, it's the great fact of his life - as it would be for you or I. But it isn't to Robert." - Barney Hoskyns

That is very sad.

Yes it is sad. But Zeppelin can live on, through Mr. Page, it just needs to evolve, make the next step of growth.

[DE12]

That is very sad.

I agree. His This Day post yesterday was sad, too. (or maybe wistful is a better word.)

Of all the passages to quote from the book, why was the one that is by and large a veiled swipe at Robert Plant chosen? Also, what is all this negativity toward Brad Tolinski's book? So what if it's only a collection of Guitar World interviews, at least they're all captured in one tome. I for one don't have all those magazines. I want a book that gives me credible information about the music, how it was made etc, not crap about the occult and other second-hand bullshit.Only a biography written by Jimmy or any other survivng member would do that, with a bit of luck this will come close.

I didn't interpret that quotation as a swipe at Robert Plant - just the truth about the situation. Robert has been vocal about not wanting to do it just as Jimmy has been about wanting to do it. Hoskyn's book is by and large very favorable to Robert. There were some things I'd read before from the usual suspects but others were new including from new sources.

Tolinski's book would be fine if it was marketed as all the Guitar World interviews in one tome but it was not - it was implied there was new information from years of interviews. As I've said earlier, I'm a new fan and only a few paragraphs were new to me. Everything else I'd already read online in the space of a few months. I don't have any of the magazines. I also don't think the book gave that much information about how the music was made.

I've read a lot of biographies and always find what inspires/interests a creator is fascinating including their personal life. That's the genre of biography!

Sometimes an artists' inspiration has introduced me to new things- art, ideas,history,books,music, etc. I don't have any issues with Jimmy's occult beliefs or how he led/leads his personal life but to suggest these are things separate from the music is not an accurate assessment of anyone's life. Of course, the music can be appreciated, recognized, loved, outside of knowing all that information but it is who he is (or was.) Just as the negative perspective in Hoskyn's book doesn't change my opinion that he's a musical genius or a fascinating man. Most creative (or powerful) people I've known or read about have had fairly messy personal lives - but I think their life taken in its entirety is what makes biography interesting.

Somehow I don't think we'd learn much more from a Jimmy bio unless it was posthumous.

[Reggie29]

I agree. His This Day post yesterday was sad, too. (or maybe wistful is a better word.)

I didn't interpret that quotation as a swipe at Robert Plant - just the truth about the situation. Robert has been vocal about not wanting to do it just as Jimmy has been about wanting to do it. Hoskyn's book is by and large very favorable to Robert. There were some things I'd read before from the usual suspects but others were new including from new sources.

Tolinski's book would be fine if it was marketed as all the Guitar World interviews in one tome but it was not - it was implied there was new information from years of interviews. As I've said earlier, I'm a new fan and only a few paragraphs were new to me. Everything else I'd already read online in the space of a few months. I don't have any of the magazines. I also don't think the book gave that much information about how the music was made.

I've read a lot of biographies and always find what inspires/interests a creator is fascinating including their personal life. That's the genre of biography!

Sometimes an artists' inspiration has introduced me to new things- art, ideas,history,books,music, etc. I don't have any issues with Jimmy's occult beliefs or how he led/leads his personal life but to suggest these are things separate from the music is not an accurate assessment of anyone's life. Of course, the music can be appreciated, recognized, loved, outside of knowing all that information but it is who he is (or was.) Just as the negative perspective in Hoskyn's book doesn't change my opinion that he's a musical genius or a fascinating man. Most creative (or powerful) people I've known or read about have had fairly messy personal lives - but I think their life taken in its entirety is what makes biography interesting.

Somehow I don't think we'd learn much more from a Jimmy bio unless it was posthumous.

If it came across that I was suggesting that Hoskyn's book was anti Plant, then that was not my intent.

I was curious as to why the poster chose that quote out of so many others.

It was revealed long before it was published that is was a collection of one-on-one interviews over the years from their association.

Brad Tolinski is not an author of note and no disrespect to him. Most of us who have read Guitar World know who he is, so had he released a book, an auto-biography if you will, it would've received more publicity from the publisher to promote it.

It wasn't so no big deal, collectors and some others will buy it too.

To complain about the content is a moot point.

Biographies are my favourite read, how much of the subjects private life do we need to know and to what end?

I'd be surprised if Jimmy would go to any great lengths about his "beliefs", as it were.

To quote any of them, especially Jimmy Page, Led Zeppelin was only ever about the music.

Light and Shade not, Grey and Dark.

[DE12]

If it came across that I was suggesting that Hoskyn's book was anti Plant, then that was not my intent.

I was curious as to why the poster chose that quote out of so many others.

It was revealed long before it was published that is was a collection of one-on-one interviews over the years from their association.

Brad Tolinski is not an author of note and no disrespect to him. Most of us who have read Guitar World know who he is, so had he released a book, an auto-biography if you will, it would've received more publicity from the publisher to promote it.

It wasn't so no big deal, collectors and some others will buy it too.

To complain about the content is a moot point.

Biographies are my favourite read, how much of the subjects private life do we need to know and to what end?

I'd be surprised if Jimmy would go to any great lengths about his "beliefs", as it were.

To quote any of them, especially Jimmy Page, Led Zeppelin was only ever about the music.

Light and Shade not, Grey and Dark.

Got it, re: the Plant quote. My interest is of course about the music but that kind of music comes from some source or inspiration or muse and that's where the personal life comes in.. That's what I like to read about.. If it's just about the music - why would read about it -we'd just want to listen to it ! I don't think he ever goes into that much detail about his creative process anyway - a bit in those interviews. Jimmy (or all of them) might say it's just about the music- but his costumes, the hair, the gestures with the bow, the dancing, the low-slung Les Paul, the lifestyle- it's much more than the music - it's the show, too.

I think most biographies (that I read anyway - which are mostly political figures) go into great depth about a person's private life. We can agree to disagree but to talk just about a person's work doesn't give a full picture. Maybe by today's standards (i.e., overexposure; fame for fame's sake; and the confessional-then-redemption-makeover-cycle) our definition of "personal life" is different.

In my experience, you don't get to light and shade without understanding/experiencing the grey and dark between. And I think flaws make people interesting and not just their genius. But good discussion all the same! (p.s. just to add - I think Keith Richard's was a great example of a well-done auto-bio that gives a bit of all of it - the childhood, the music, the history, the lifestyle, etc.)

[jabe]

The quote comes not from Hoskyns' book, but from an interview Hoskyns gave to dangerousminds.net.

The poster chose that quote because he found the imagery in two simple sentences made a lot more sense than dry, boring paragraphs posted in the pages of countless threads he has read in the past, and surely will continue to read in the future.

[Reggie29]

Got it, re: the Plant quote. My interest is of course about the music but that kind of music comes from some source or inspiration or muse and that's where the personal life comes in.. That's what I like to read about.. If it's just about the music - why would read about it -we'd just want to listen to it ! I don't think he ever goes into that much detail about his creative process anyway - a bit in those interviews. Jimmy (or all of them) might say it's just about the music- but his costumes, the hair, the gestures with the bow, the dancing, the low-slung Les Paul, the lifestyle- it's much more than the music - it's the show, too.

I think most biographies (that I read anyway - which are mostly political figures) go into great depth about a person's private life. We can agree to disagree but to talk just about a person's work doesn't give a full picture. Maybe by today's standards (i.e., overexposure; fame for fame's sake; and the confessional-then-redemption-makeover-cycle) our definition of "personal life" is different.

In my experience, you don't get to light and shade without understanding/experiencing the grey and dark between. And I think flaws make people interesting and not just their genius. But good discussion all the same! (p.s. just to add - I think Keith Richard's was a great example of a well-done auto-bio that gives a bit of all of it - the childhood, the music, the history, the lifestyle, etc.)

Of course history is important and as long as it is accurate, good and bad and not just some writers perception or interpretation of what actually happened and more importantly how they dealt with those situations and events.

In other words, a balanced, objective insight into the band without sensationalism.

Inspiration of and for the songs is always interesting because most songwriters relate peronal experiences interwoven with their lyrics.

The same goes for writing music, what inspired Page to create an unique tuning for The Rain Song and how they wrote as a team. Surely, that sort of thing would be good for everyone to know, not just musicians?

I'd love to know why they chose the "costumes" and all the other wonderful details that made the shows and the records what they were / are.

I'd be surprised if anyone on here would not know of all the "dark" things, they are discussed enough on this forum in many threads, ad nauseum.

[Reggie29]

The quote comes not from Hoskyns' book, but from an interview Hoskyns gave to dangerousminds.net.

The poster chose that quote because he found the imagery in two simple sentences made a lot more sense than dry, boring paragraphs posted in the pages of countless threads he has read in the past, and surely will continue to read in the future.

There was no mention that, that quote was not from his book, just Hoskyn's opinion?

If you don't like them, don't read them.

Peace.

[SweetLittleBaby]

I hate to hear that Jimmy is portrayed negatively in this book. Is it in regards to his substance abuse or something else? It sounds like an interesting book, but if it's too negative towards Jimmy I don't think I'd be brave enough to read it.