Led Zeppelin Over Europe 1980

[Nutrocker]

Having done a search, this tour doesn't get discussed much on the forum. I was hoping to start this thread so's to stir up a bit of 1980 tour discussion.

As promised (threatened? ) I have put together a 1980 compilation in the tradition of my 1977 How The West Was Won II comp. Using 1st gen soundboard sources, I came up with this:

LED ZEPPELIN OVER EUROPE 1980

Train Kept A Rollin' (Cologne 18 June)

Nobody's Fault But Mine (Cologne 18 June)

Black Dog (Cologne 18 June)

In The Evening (Frankfurt 30 June)

The Rain Song (Frankfurt 30 June)

Hot Dog (Frankfurt 30 June)

All My Love (Frankfurt 30 June)

Trampled Under Foot (Berlin 7 July)

Since I've Been Loving You (Zurich 29 June)

Achilles Last Stand (Zurich 29 June)

White Summer/Black Mountain Side (Cologne 18 June)

Kashmir (Cologne 18 June)

Stairway To Heaven (Berlin 7 July)

Rock And Roll (Berlin 7 July)

Money (Frankfurt 30 June)

Heartbreaker (Zurich 29 June)

Communication Breakdown (Cologne 18 June)

Whole Lotta Love (Berlin 7 July)

(I concede I may have made some 'controversial' choices here, but I had my reasons, which we can also discuss. Also I noticed the Cologne soundboard had a much rougher sound than the others, which had a more uniform quality to them. Damn, some of these 1980 soundboards sound good!)

I have to be honest: I certainly don't have the enthusiasm for the 1980 tour that I have for, say, 1977 Some of the '80 gigs I find generally dreadful, some are just so-so, and then there are nights like Zurich and Frankfurt where the band could hit their old peak and were transcendent. Having said that, though, listening to these four shows in full over the last couple days gave me a new appreciation for the tour, and what Zeppelin was trying to do. Quite simply, they seemed to change their whole approach to performing, focusing more on playing songs than showing off with a lot of drawn out self indulgent improvisation. We all know the story about the band's 'cut the waffle' attitude towards these gigs, and quite frankly it did seem to be the right decision.

There are of course some drawbacks...first and foremost some of the 1980 shows feature Jimmy Page at his absolute worst. On the basis of his sloppy, erratic playing, I don't reckon Page looks back on a lot of these performances with fondness (he has expressed enthusiasm for the Zurich and Munich shows in the past.) Though there were still moments of the old brilliance from Pagey, but they seem to come from so out of left field it makes you appreciate them that much more. Robert Plant, consummate pro that he is, seemed to switch from enthusiastic to apathetic at the drop of a hat. Some nights it sounds like he simply did not want to be there; others he's just as impassioned in his vocals as ever (particularly on the newer material). His attitude towards the audience seems to have changed as well- gone is the witty charm in his Plantations; some nights (Rotterdam and Hannover immediately come to mind) there are times when Percy seems downright contemptuous towards the audience. Plant's mixed emotions make for an interesting listen at times. John Bonham could be erratic on this tour as well; he seems to have a more restrained approach to his playing in general, though that isn't necessarily a bad thing (some nights the whole band seems subdued) and it's hard to tell if Bonzo was rethinking his whole approach to drumming or if the booze and drugs were beginning to take their toll (though Bonham had a way to go before reaching the same level of substance induced decline of somebody like Keith Moon). Then there's John Paul Jones...there were some '77 shows where JPJ really rose to the occasion and carried the band. In 1980 that appeared to be the case in general. Considering Page's (and Bonham's) erraticism, and Plant's lack of enthusiasm, JPJ is the star here. He plays more keyboards than bass than ever at these shows, and though he may have made some questionable choices in regard to his keyboard sounds, his efforts towards 'modernizing' the band's sound were admirable.

As I've stated before, my biggest issue with the 1980 tour is the setlist. I admit I generally skip the whole "Rain Song"/"Hot Dog"/"All My Love" sequence; that kind of running order IMO poured saltpeter over the audience in much the same way that back to back drum and 'noise' solos did in 1977. I've no issue with them performing those songs, just that order. It's no wonder they had to pull the audience out of their stupor with "Trampled Under Foot" after that. Had Zeppelin made it to the States to tour later in the year, I could see the fluctuating momentum of the setlist causing some hostility with the punters.

Any, what are yer thoughts about the tour? I know the '80 gigs have their fans and supporters here. And if yer innarested in hearing the comp I made, well, you know the drill, shoot me a PM.

[TheLastSpartan]

I kind of liked their setlist, kind of a "return to the roots" type. Personally, I think had LZ gone on any longer they would of ended back up at the beginning, with (hopefully) sobering up and revisting old material, but it wouldn't of been too great in my opinion, since they had already been there, done that. But, back on the topic of 1980 tour, I really do think that it suffered from the setlist as you said. ITTOD just doesn't really do it for me, and really shows a bit of decline in Zeppelin. I really think that JPJ was on his way to being the more creative force in the band at this point. I think with him carrying Led Zeppelin through the 80s, more keyboards and synth would of been on the albums. Not something pretty really haha. Couldn't see Led Zeppelin doing the whole Synth pop thing, but hey, who knows. Okay, sorry for getting on the topic of future 80s zeppelin, I'll go back to Over Europe. I just wish there was pro-shot footage of this tour, even just some snippets or a song. I know we have 4 different sources of film, but still. Here is in my opinion, a more ideal setlist for 1980.

1. Train Kept A Rollin'

2. For Your Life

4. In The Evening

5. Trampled Under Foot

6. All My Love

7. Hot Dog

8. Since I've Been Loving You

9. The Song Remains The Same

10. The Rain Song

11. White Summer

12. Achilles Last Stand

13. Stairway To Heaven

14. Rock And Roll/Black Dog

15. Whole Lotta Love/Communication Breakdown

Sorry for my post being one huge clusterfuck of random 80s topics haha.

[SteveAJones]

Having done a search, this tour doesn't get discussed much on the forum. I was hoping to start this thread so's to stir up a bit of 1980 tour discussion.

(edit)

Any, what are yer thoughts about the tour? I know the '80 gigs have their fans and supporters here. And if yer innarested in hearing the comp I made, well, you know the drill, shoot me a PM.

Historically this tour, though brief, was very important; if it did not go well there was a real possibility Robert would have left the band. All in all it went as expected yet musically, in hindsight, they arguably did not revamp/scale down enough. White Summer/Black Mountain Side always seems to me a lowpoint in the gigs with Jimmy attempting to deliver a 1970 era showpiece to a 1980 audience. The frenzy of the encores seems vapid and predictable. Personally, I'd much rather have live renditions of more material from Presence & ITTOD than what ultimately comprised the nightly setlists.

[magerogue]

I'll go back to Over Europe. I just wish there was pro-shot footage of this tour, even just some snippets or a song. I know we have 4 different sources of film, but still.

I never know a thing, but I'm damn sure that there's a thread in this forum that has a list of "professionaly filmed performances by Led Zeppelin" and there's a 1980 show on the list. I think I even wrote something like "where did you get the ideia?" or something like that. But yes you're right it would have helped if we had a well filmed concert.

[Sagittarius Rising]

I had a friend in the Army at the time who saw them at several shows in Germany & Switzerland and loved the shows and the scaled down approach. I have heard several boots from the really good shows (Frankfurt, Vienna, Munich) and these are some of my favorite and most listened to shows I have. It seems when they were on for this tour THEY WERE ON!!! I also prefer the scaled down approach, no more boring 30 minute drum solo's or 45 min D&C (thank god). This was the 80's, not the early 70's when jam bands like the Dead, Yes, and Camel could do 30 min jams and people would groove. They knew (hell, even Yes knew) those days were long gone and if they were to remain relevant they needed to focus on the songs, not the ego trip solo's.

I find it such a shame, if Page & Bonham would have sobered up I think Plant would have regained his enthusiasm and the band would have come back stronger than ever. TBH, I cannot blame Plant one bit, if I were him I would have kicked both Page & Bonham's asses and quit the band after Karak died. How the hell he suffered on until Sept 25th 1980 is a mystery to me, just looking at Jimmy in particular at that time and I would have told him, go into rehab or find another singer.

[Dallas Knebs]

In regards to leaving the group, my impression looking back is that Plant was not leaving. He was however going to do at least two solo albums.

It is heresay, since I did not have a direct conversation and is unreliable info. In addition, Plant cut his hair and was wearing sleeveless t-shirts and was well on his way to the curly toe ali-babba outfits.

Back on topic though, Over Europe is my favorite tour. Mainly because it never occured to me to evaluate, compare, dissect and rate 1980 to previous tours. Further, see Led Zeppelin as a band (singular) rather than the moving parts of "how was Robert's voice compared to '75" and "how strung out or sloppy was Page" simply put I just listen and enjoy them.

Set list was as Steve indicates left wanting. Agreed they did not pare back near far enough. 1980 was the time to pull from Physical Graffiti and cut SIBLY, RS, WS, D&C, STH(?). Would have pulled less played numbers from all previous and pulled 1969 staples like HMMT and LS.

Great thread, thanks for posting.

Historically this tour, though brief, was very important; if it did not go well there was a real possibility Robert would have left the band.

[Strider]

I only have four 1980 shows: Cologne, Mannheim, Zurich and Frankfurt.

So when it comes to the 1980 tour and compiling a best of setlist, I defer to your knowledge Nutrocker. Good on ya for putting in the effort to make this list...and the 1977 one, too by the way. I'm too lazy to even think of that.

After finally listening to Zurich and Frankfurt, I did start to reappraise the 1980 tour and the possibilities for Led Zeppelin's future tours...if Bonham had lived.

There are moments I like(Hot Dog being one of them), and others not so much(both White Summer and Black Dog should have been retired).

Nobody's Fault But Mine(I miss the intro, tho), Trampled Under Foot, Kashmir, Achilles Last Stand, and In the Evening are the highlights for me...along with Hot Dog.

If they would have added For Your Life, Tea For One, Royal Orleans, Wearing and Tearing, Carouselambra, and a good PG number like The Rover or Ten Years Gone, they could have had a modern, streamlined set focused on the three most recent albums: ITTOD, Presence and PG.

Get rid of Black Dog, White Summer, SIBLY, Rain Song, maybe even Train Kept a Rolling. Think how effective Wearing and Tearing would have been as an opener...and it would have segued nicely into Nobody's Fault But Mine.

Save Rock n Roll and/or Whole Lotta Love for the encores. Maybe throw in The Ocean as a bonus instead of Heartbreaker or Communication Breakdown.

I would have even considered the extreme measure of jettisoning Stairway to Heaven and making Kashmir the regular set closer.

I kind of liked their setlist, kind of a "return to the roots" type. Personally, I think had LZ gone on any longer they would of ended back up at the beginning, with (hopefully) sobering up and revisting old material, but it wouldn't of been too great in my opinion, since they had already been there, done that. But, back on the topic of 1980 tour, I really do think that it suffered from the setlist as you said. ITTOD just doesn't really do it for me, and really shows a bit of decline in Zeppelin. I really think that JPJ was on his way to being the more creative force in the band at this point. I think with him carrying Led Zeppelin through the 80s, more keyboards and synth would of been on the albums. Not something pretty really haha. Couldn't see Led Zeppelin doing the whole Synth pop thing, but hey, who knows. Okay, sorry for getting on the topic of future 80s zeppelin, I'll go back to Over Europe. I just wish there was pro-shot footage of this tour, even just some snippets or a song. I know we have 4 different sources of film, but still. Here is in my opinion, a more ideal setlist for 1980.

1. Train Kept A Rollin'

2. For Your Life

4. In The Evening

5. Trampled Under Foot

6. All My Love

7. Hot Dog

8. Since I've Been Loving You

9. The Song Remains The Same

10. The Rain Song

11. White Summer

12. Achilles Last Stand

13. Stairway To Heaven

14. Rock And Roll/Black Dog

15. Whole Lotta Love/Communication Breakdown

Sorry for my post being one huge clusterfuck of random 80s topics haha.

Naw, that's okay. What you need to apologize for is leaving "Kashmir" off your setlist.

[TheLastSpartan]

I knew I was forgetting something! Time for a setlist revision.

1. Walters Walk/Wearing and tearing

2. Nobodies Fault But Mine

3. Trampled Under Foot

4. All my Love

5. For Your Life

6. Tea For One

7. Hot Dog

8. In The Evening

9. Kashmir

10. Achilles Last Stand

11. Communication Breakdown/Heartbreaker

12. Whole Lotta Love/The Ocean

[Dallas Knebs]

If I might indulge myself on what a dream (for me) setlist would have been on Over Europe...

1. The Rover

2. How Many More Times

3. Lemon Song/Bring it on Home

4. Walters Walk/Wearing and Tearing

5. In the Light

6. No Quarter

7. For Your Life

8. Tea For One

9. In The Evening

10. Achilles Last Stand

11.The Ocean/I Can't Quit You Baby

12. Kashmir

Encore(s)

13. Thank You/Tangerine

14. Four Sticks

15. Wanton Song/WLL/CB

[Sue Dounim]

My setlist:

Train Kept A Rollin'/Nobody's Fault But Mine

(Out on the Tiles) Black Dog

In the Evening

The Rain Song

Hot Dog

All My Love

Trampled Under Foot

Since I've Been Loving You

Achilles' Last Stand

White Summer/Black Mountain Side~Kashmir

Stairway to Heaven

Rock and Roll

Whole Lotta Love

[Nutrocker]

My issue with the setlist isn't so much the songs they chose, but rather the running order. As nice as it would have been to see something totally outta left field like "In The Light" or "Carouselambra" in the set, they should have just shuffled things around a bit, especially when it came the "Rain Song"/"Hot Dog"/"All My Love" sequence.

At least they saved the real warhorses for the encores. And "White Summer" had no business being in the set, prelude to "Kashmir" or not (and the audience seemed to voice their displeasure with Page's insistence on trying to play the piece more than once, the most extreme case being in Vienna with the "Firecracker Incident"). "Kashmir" IMO was most effective as a stand alone piece in 1975.

Historically this tour, though brief, was very important; if it did not go well there was a real possibility Robert would have left the band. All in all it went as expected yet musically, in hindsight, they arguably did not revamp/scale down enough. White Summer/Black Mountain Side always seems to me a lowpoint in the gigs with Jimmy attempting to deliver a 1970 era showpiece to a 1980 audience. The frenzy of the encores seems vapid and predictable. Personally, I'd much rather have live renditions of more material from Presence & ITTOD than what ultimately comprised the nightly setlists.

I addressed some of yer points above, Steve, but I'll take the bolded part separately...

I don't doubt that there were times during some of the 1980 concerts -especially if Page was really in fumble fingers mode- when Robert was undoubtedly thinking, "Why the hell did I agree to this? What the fuck am I doing up here?". Ultimately I think it was in the band's best interest to keep Plant happy during this period. I have to question how successful they were with that...I reckon that had Zeppelin made it to the other side of the pond in the fall of 1980 if the overall quality of the performances didn't improve that probably would have been all she wrote for the band. That is, if Jimmy didn't OD first...which I reckon would have been a real possibility.

[Nutrocker]

My setlist:

Train Kept A Rollin'/Nobody's Fault But Mine

(Out on the Tiles) Black Dog

In the Evening

The Rain Song

Hot Dog

All My Love

Trampled Under Foot

Since I've Been Loving You

Achilles' Last Stand

White Summer/Black Mountain Side~Kashmir

Stairway to Heaven

Rock and Roll

Whole Lotta Love

So in other words you wouldn't change a thing, Sue? Really?

[bluesunday]

Last gasp of a heavy rock band in decline.

Plant's voice is in good shape, circa '77 shape

Jones's playing is good but nothing special

Bonham's drumming is not terribly inspiring or as compelling as in years past.

Page - the biggest disappointment- while he could still play with excitement on some tunes, (some of those versions of Trampled are exhilirating) other times his playing is dreadful...I just don't see how the band could have thrived in the 80s without Page getting off of the smack entirely

This is a band not at all at their peak. They played their guts out and then some during their heyday and couldn't top it. They would have coasted on their 70's fame throughout the 80's if Bonham had lived.

[Sue Dounim]

So in other words you wouldn't change a thing, Sue? Really?

Yeah, I thought it was fine the way it was. Though I'm scared to think that Carouselambra might've made it's way into the setlist later on.

[TheLastSpartan]

Yeah, I thought it was fine the way it was. Though I'm scared to think that Carouselambra might've made it's way into the setlist later on.

Jut imagine a Carosuelmbra medley. That would of become the new "No Quarter" in my eyes.

[Sue Dounim]

Jut imagine a Carosuelmbra medley. That would of become the new "No Quarter" in my eyes.

Ugh, I really don't like the sound of that...btw, love the K-On! profile pic!

[TheLastSpartan]

Ugh, I really don't like the sound of that...btw, love the K-On! profile pic!

Thank you! Yeah, it's a new anime I'm getting into, don't really watch anime all that much, but I have my few that I like. And yeah, Carouselambra, THAT would be quite...interesting live, to say the least. But, we will never know what it would of been like.

[kingzoso]

For all of you 1980 Led Zeppelin Over Europe Tour "detractors", I all I can say is watch and listen to this:

http://youtu.be/jqiW4VnX_5k

and this:

http://youtu.be/5GsxFaWbXFU

and this:

http://youtu.be/tr6Km-3Efto

I defy Anyone to go on "Record" on this Website/Forum and tell me that LED ZEPPELIN had lost any of their MAGIC onstage during this Crucial, however, Brief Tour.

[SteveAJones]

In regards to leaving the group, my impression looking back is that Plant was not leaving.

Just to clarify, I'm not suggesting Robert had issued an ultimatum or anything like that. I am saying his return to the stage, if not the band, was a cautious one. As well as this tour went, he said to Peter immediately afterward (paraphrasing) "Alright G, I'll do it (USA tour), but for no more than a month. Sure enough, Peter Grant arranged a US tour that was to have gone for precisely one month. If the Over Europe tour had not gone well...

[Dallas Knebs]

you will get no such contention from me sir

in the limited experience I have with seeing Led Zeppelin live, the "experience" that many refer to as transcendent is not so much the note for note of their shows, rather, what went on around the audience participants with the vibrations, interplay of the audience to audience (this was huge) as well as the audible sound washing over- the "it" factor for me (speaking only for myself) is visually seeing how they did what they did both individually and as a unit. It was beyond physical, mental & emotional to finally see "how" they got the sounds out that I heard on the LPs. I have fond memories of many fantastic live performances of many artists- some very special. None are in the same league at overwhelming me with an "aha!" experience.

The first soundboard I received was a Knebworth show. I thought it was a fake- it sounded nothing like what I had heard live. It took me a long time to try and listen to it again. What was on the tape was not what I heard at all. I hope I am not alone in this experience.

The Over Europe tour is so special to me- posters in my dorm during college. Phone calls between friends that went to Rotterdam. Unused tickets to the American tour that was to follow. My wife still puzzles over the fact that so much of that time is packed and has moved with us over the years.

How many of us have played guitar to our children at bed time and played Led Zeppelin songs acoustically? My daughter who is 14 recognized All My Love when it was playing on my iPod. (yes I bought the remastered for iTunes setup). She said,"...that's the song you used to play me when I was little !!!! I didn't know it was a song and had words...it's beautiful."

Nutrocker has done another amazing effort. I don't words, hopefully appreciation is enough for now.

For all of you 1980 Led Zeppelin Over Europe Tour "detractors", I all I can say is watch and listen to this:

I defy Anyone to go on "Record" on this Website/Forum and tell me that LED ZEPPELIN had lost any of their MAGIC onstage during this Crucial, however, Brief Tour.

[And You Know How It Is?]

Nutrocker,

Am surprised you didn't include Brussels in your initial analysis. I have heard most of the 1980 shows, and this one is rock solid and IMHO, one of the better nights from Over Europe. Outside that, I agree with your analysis and I would slightly modify the set list:

Custard Pie

Nobody's Fault But Mine

Black Dog

In The Evening

Over the Hills and Far Away

Hot Dog

All My Love

Trampled Underfoot

I'm Gonna Crawl

Achilles Last Stand

Wearing and Tearing

Kashmir (no WS/BM preceeding)

Stairway To Heaven

Encores;

Rock and Roll

alternate nightly between Whole Lotta Love/Heartbereaker/Communication Breakdown

[Nutrocker]

For all of you 1980 Led Zeppelin Over Europe Tour "detractors", I all I can say is watch and listen to this:

I defy Anyone to go on "Record" on this Website/Forum and tell me that LED ZEPPELIN had lost any of their MAGIC onstage during this Crucial, however, Brief Tour.

Compare those 1980 clips with something from, say, 1972, then get back to us...

The first Zeppelin bootleg recording I ever heard was the Berlin '80 show, back in the late eighties. Until I'd heard that show, the only exposure to what Zeppelin sounded like live was The Song Remains The Same soundtrack. And my first thought upon hearing Berlin was, "Jesus Christ, they sound different here!" I couldn't decide even then if it was a good performance or not; obviously I've learned better since.

It seems that the 1980 tour divides fans big time. Some people love it, some people hate it, some are simply "meh" about it. Me, I try to remain objective about it. Some of the shows were great, others not so much. No, the MAGIC wasn't gone in 1980 but it had certainly been diminished somewhat. Although I reckon the cracks were already starting to show in '77, if not earlier...

[LedZebedee]

I remember the UK music press greeting this tour with complete apathy - the few headlines were along the lines of "the Dinosaur rises again" and they were called boring old farts which I considered sacriledge at the time! Can't see how they could have continued in the 80s without a spell in the Betty Ford clinic for Page first! His playing was shocking (with a few exceptions ie Zurich) on this tour and all in pristine soundboard quality too!

[Nutrocker]

I remember the UK music press greeting this tour with complete apathy - the few headlines were along the lines of "the Dinosaur rises again" and they were called boring old farts which I considered sacriledge at the time!

All the more shocking considering it was their first European tour in seven years...sure, the British music press may still have been licking Punk's ass in 1980 but you'd think the seven year layoff might have garnered some press.

Compare with the hype the 1975 Earls Court gigs got.

[LiveWire1979]

Well....for me the Over Europe tour had lost most of the magic that the previous ones had, even like 1977 tour...the vibe from the crowd isn't there and the band (without exceptions ) doesn't seem to enjoy being on stage.

Take for example Robert, who can be heard clearly saying "What a fuckin' horrible place" (!!) in Hannover's soundboard from 6-24-80. It might have been very tough for him touring at that particular time. Watching his bandmate (Jimmy) playing so sloppy must have been a very awkward moment too.

But, my biggest problem with Over Europe is the unbelievable dryness of the soundboards....even worse from what we have from 77 tour....I can't stand them. The only shows overall that i really enjoy are Zurich and the audience tape of Munich gig (which is actually a good show for the tour's standards)...

Anyway, what i like particulary for the setlist is that it doesn't include long drum solos of 35 minutes and the band decided to do something completely different.....If only Carouselambra was included too like Hot Dog and All Of My Love....

That tour was a teaser about the band's music approach during the 1980's that we never managed to see.....unfortunately...

P.S Any news about the rumoured pro-shot b/w footage from Zurich ? Do we have any new evidence or someone who knows about it ?