Dallas Knebs Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Have heard a great deal about Page having shows where he was sloppy and not sharp. Have not heard the same about JPJ. Did he have any shows where he was either sloppy or not on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Off the top of my head: 25/4/77, Louisville, during "No Quarter", as soon as they finish playing "The Nutrocker" boogie jam JPJ jumps back to the Rhodes from the piano and starts playing the main theme, forgetting for a moment that Page still has a ten minute solo to play Maybe they toured the Jack Daniel's factory before the show... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave2007 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Kashmir was a problem at times for Jonesey. If memory serves I remember an interview when he said he had a handwriitten reminder note taped onto the keyboards for kashmir which said "remember the bridge" or something similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabe Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 DK, check out Rock and Roll, July15, 1973. During Jimmy's solo, JPJ' bass is on a somewhat different plain. Not sloppy, but a wtf kind of moment. I've gone back to that song a lot lately, and laugh my ass off. I wonder what Page was thinking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MINI_Zoso Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Good question! I'm often amazed at his musicianship. The man has skills. The focus seem always to be on Jimmy's playing, so Jones had his moments too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Good question! I'm often amazed at his musicianship. The man has skills. The focus seem always to be on Jimmy's playing, so Jones had his moments too! I think it's safe to say that starting with the In Through The Out Door sessions in 1978, for all intents and purposes John Paul Jones took over the band. Page clearly abdicated his role as 'band leader' in favour of smack, Plant wasn't interested in playing the rock and roll game at all anymore after 26 July 1977, and Bonham probably would have rather stayed at home at on the farm if he had his druthers. The band presented a united front, as it were, for the Knebworth shows, but I think it's safe to say by the 1980 shows JPJ's influence was most prominent, especially with the emphasis on keyboards over bass during the performances. I wouldn't be surprised if, had Zeppelin stayed together (whether Bonham died or not), there ultimately would have been major power struggles between Jones and Page over -at the very least- the musical direction of the band. John Paul Jones strikes me as being the kinda guy who likely would have just said fuck it if he was unhappy (as he nearly did in late '73) and that would have left a helluva gap to fill. How the hell could you replace somebody with the talent and abilities of John Paul Jones? They would have needed a new bass player and a keyboardist, for one thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazedjeffy Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 4/24/1969 ALAIHY. In some of those bass runs, Jones' brain is moving faster than his fingers. He's trying to play too much and doesn't execute completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glyn Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 ^ One of the more erratic performances from JPJ. I'd be curious to see the looks they were giving Jones when the bass rig started messing up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magerogue Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 ^ One of the more erratic performances from JPJ. I'd be curious to see the looks they were giving Jones when the bass rig started messing up Specially because him and Bonzo never f*cked up. It's almost impossible with all the partying and nights of no sleep to not mess up at least once. And I am well aware about what jpj said in an interview (he probably did more "stuff" than the others), so if people cut Jimmy Page some slack for 1980/77, Jones was completly off the hook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Knebs Posted February 3, 2013 Author Share Posted February 3, 2013 Thanks for the replies I am steadily working through listening to the shows you mention. Heard an account that the monitors blew and played the entire show with no monitors. He had many people tell him that was the best they heard him play. He was dialed in super tight at the O2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzamatt Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 It´s either irritating or interesting to play without monitors Like, you still know what you´re playing (well, should at least) but can´t hear yourself properly. Or worse; not at all... That can lead to some surprised faces... I think that Zeppelin managed to make even some of their mock-ups sound interesting. Jimmy´s playing might have been sloppy at times, but it was still him playing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb126 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 And I am well aware about what jpj said in an interview (he probably did more "stuff" than the others), so if people cut Jimmy Page some slack for 1980/77, Jones was completly off the hook. I don't understand your meaning. What "stuff" did JPJ do more than the others? JPJ was off the hook for..? Thanks. Kashmir was a problem at times for Jonesey. If memory serves I remember an interview when he said he had a handwriitten reminder note taped onto the keyboards for kashmir which said "remember the bridge" or something similar. Yes, "Kashmir" was a problem for him, I think his note was "remember the coda". Off the top of my head: 25/4/77, Louisville, during "No Quarter", as soon as they finish playing "The Nutrocker" boogie jam JPJ jumps back to the Rhodes from the piano and starts playing the main theme, forgetting for a moment that Page still has a ten minute solo to play Going to try to find this. Interesting thread Dallas Knebs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledzepfilm Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I believe Tempe he came in slugglishly with Kashmir. Well, that was an off night anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 It´s either irritating or interesting to play without monitors Like, you still know what you´re playing (well, should at least) but can´t hear yourself properly. Or worse; not at all... That can lead to some surprised faces... I played a time or two without monitors back when I still indulged in that sort of thing, all you have is this wall of noise behind you from the amps and drums, it's not fun, but on the night you just sort of have to go with it. Monitors can be just as annoying when they are not working properly, too. Feedbacky microphones, etc...and I've never played to the size audiences Zeppelin did so I can't imagine how they'd put up with the malfunctions... I think that Zeppelin managed to make even some of their mock-ups sound interesting. Jimmy´s playing might have been sloppy at times, but it was still him playing! It's called 'sloppy with feel' On the other hand the nights when Page looked like a corpse, whether he was playing beautifully or fucking up all over the place, you still gotta look at the guy and say, "Jesus Christ, why'd ya wanna do that to yerself?" Going to try to find this. Jonesy's "No Quarter" mix up in Louisville is funny...I laughed the first time I heard it. There were definitely some innaresting vibes going on at that show, but ultimately it's not a really great performance overall- but based on eyewitness accounts and whatnot, the audience was pretty rowdy (such as lobbing a bottle at Jimmy Page after "Ten Years Gone") and that sorta distracted the band. Now that I think of it, JPJ is actually pretty sloppy at times during "In My Time Of Dying" in Louisville too, I remember thinking when I heard the tape, "You know it's can be an 'off' night when even Jonesy is making mistakes!" I believe Tempe he came in slugglishly with Kashmir. Well, that was an off night anyways. Indeed, JPJ actually apologized to an Arizona interviewer years later about the Tempe '77 show when discussing a gig Jonesy was playing with Dimanda Galas (?)there...he admitted Page was "not well" that night, and promised his upcoming gig in Tempe would be better. Sluggish "Kashmir" in Tempe, sure (Page probably threw them off by not playing "White Summer") but as I recall they don't miscue the thing ala 23/6/77 or 29/6/80 and manage to make it through the song unscathed. It's Plant and Page that were the real problems in Tempe, Jones and Bonham appeared to acquit themselves nicely under the circumstances... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb126 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Jonesy's "No Quarter" mix up in Louisville is funny...I laughed the first time I heard it. There were definitely some innaresting vibes going on at that show, but ultimately it's not a really great performance overall- but based on eyewitness accounts and whatnot, the audience was pretty rowdy (such as lobbing a bottle at Jimmy Page after "Ten Years Gone") and that sorta distracted the band. Now that I think of it, JPJ is actually pretty sloppy at times during "In My Time Of Dying" in Louisville too, I remember thinking when I heard the tape, "You know it's can be an 'off' night when even Jonesy is making mistakes!" Found it! Just listened to "No Quarter" so far from 4/25/77, but I thank you for sending me on this adventure because now I have a source for some shows I have never heard....not a good recording, but it's all I have at present. Your are so right - all four are mess at times, no matter, Jimmy and JPJ's playing still sound beautiful to me. Love the "Nutcracker" piece. Oh Jonesy..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melcórë Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Jonesy's "No Quarter" mix up in Louisville is funny...I laughed the first time I heard it. A funnier "No Quarter" mess up is to be found during the first Knebworth show - Percy came in way too early, and Jonesy looked pissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedZebedee Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 JPJ sloppy? Never! The reason he was consistently good is because he had a session player's mentally to performing drummed into him from an early age ie turn up on time, learn your parts and don't fuck up as time is money! He was earning £100 a week in the mid 60s and you did'nt earn that kind of dosh by being sloppy! Shame Page could'nt follow JPJ's example and be as professional as he used to be in his own session days post '75! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazedjeffy Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I believe Tempe he came in slugglishly with Kashmir. Well, that was an off night anyways. That's because Page came in WAY too early for Kashmir. They were probably all enjoying their spliffs at that moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Knebs Posted February 5, 2013 Author Share Posted February 5, 2013 Last night I listened to some TCV live and he was pushing the songs aggressively in places... didn't hear nary a ef-up nor did I see any wtf? looks from the band toward him. Revisted TSRTS from Celebration Day and he is stepping out pretty far in places and it was nice. I did look at the first Knebworth show and JPJ definitely gave Plant the stink eye about crowding in early- had never noticed it before. Thank you Melcórë. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzamatt Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I should be practising for weekend´s studio-sessions, but now I´m gonna watch that Knebworth-segment first!!! Maybe those little "mistakes" can be called creativity, at least in Zeppelins case!!! Well, I tend to think so- keeps me happy while listening!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magerogue Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I don't understand your meaning. What "stuff" did JPJ do more than the others? JPJ was off the hook for..? He said in an interview that he probably did more stuff then the others, meaning drugs and all of that, exept he was very discrete about it so nobody knew what he had taken or how high he was something like that. I meant that he was off the hook beetwen the band members if he had been sloppy on a show because of Jimmy's "condition" during 1977-80, so if he fucked up, I don't thing nobody would have cared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Maybe those little "mistakes" can be called creativity, at least in Zeppelins case!!! "Honour thy mistake as hidden intention." - Brian Eno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Knebs Posted February 6, 2013 Author Share Posted February 6, 2013 Well if the other band members were ok with his backing vocals on Battle of Evermore..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Well if the other band members were ok with his backing vocals on Battle of Evermore..... As JPJ said himself, "It was always a case of, 'Well, Jonesy can do it...'" John Paul Jones is one of rock music's ultimate multitaskers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 His flub during "Good Times Bad Times" at the rehearsal on December 6th 2007, was strange. This thread is funny, because his "sloppy" play was rarely noticed and/or identified, even though he pushed the limits as much as the others. Jonesy Rules! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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