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kingzoso

Star Wars or the Godfather?

118 posts in this topic

Regarding Fredo, yes, he was the child that was deathly ill as shown in "Godfather II", so that probably affected his development. But many of you have forgotten something else: In the beginning of "Godfather II", when we see how Vito was secreted out of Sicily and to America, in pleading for her son's life, his mother makes the observation that Vito is slow, not right in the head. Whatever Fredo had he inherited from his father, Coppola seems to be suggesting.

As to who cut off the horse's head, maybe it was a paid-off stable-hand, maybe it was Luca Brasi; it's never made clear because Coppola obviously didn't think it was important. What I do know and can state unequivocably is that there is NO WAY in fucking hell that Tom Hagen was the one who did the deed. Vito Corleone didn't put Tom Hagen thru law school for nothing. No way does Tom Hagen do something stupid and commit an act that the cops could directly trace to him and the Family. No fucking way.

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Too bad Luca's bullet-proof vest couldn't prevent his hand from from being pinned to the bar by the knife...

The dining scene between Hagen and Woltz is some crazy shit. Woltz probably had syphilis eating his brain.

I've always hoped the maid during the dining scene helped orchestrate the logistics of Woltz waking up beside the head of his horse.

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The dining scene between Hagen and Woltz is some crazy shit. Woltz probably had syphilis eating his brain.

I've always hoped the maid during the dining scene helped orchestrate the logistics of Woltz waking up beside the head of his horse.

As intimated in the novel (and a scene cut from the film, can't remember if Coppola added it back into to his Godfather Saga TV version) Woltz was a paedophile who screwed his child actresses, so it's safe to say the son of a bitch got what was coming to him. Even though I know cutting off Khartoum's head was designed to send Woltz a message, he deserved a lot worse...

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Here is an interesting fact about Robert De Niro and the "Godfather".

Robert De Niro was still a pretty much unknown actor when the casting for the GF was being done. He auditioned for the parts of Santino, Michael and even Paulie Gatto (the turncoat who set up the 'hit' on the "Don", "Leave the Gun, take the cannoli" scene).

If Bobby D. would have been cast in either of those two major roles (Sonny or Michael) or the minor role (Paulie), he would have not have been considered or even chosen by Francis Ford Coppola to play the young Vito Corleone in the second installment of the "Godfather", which won De Niro the Academy Award for Best Supporting Actor.

Call that decision, not to cast Bobby in the first GF, luck, fate, destiny, etc... Can you imagine or picture anyone else playing Vito Corleone in the "Godfather, Part II?" I know I cannot.

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Like I said, films get edited down for many reasons. Between the Godfather 1 & Godfather 2 re-edited for television multi-night mini-series (The Godfather Saga); about 75 minutes of previously deleted scenes were added back to the final product, including the Woltz paedophillia reference. I believe it was added in just so they could cover 4 nights for the re-edited 7 hour version for television.

Godfather fanatic that I am, I have never seen the Saga version...it's still a must see for me. I can't even find it online...

If you ever get the chance, check out the director's commentary on the Godfather DVDs. Coppola said that Paramount Studios gave him fits with the different parts about who they wanted to see cast. Among the studio's choices for Michael were: Ryan O'Neal, Warren Beatty, Jack Nickolson, Robert Redford and Martin Sheen. Coppola wanted Pacino from the start, and lucky for us he got his way. Seriously, Ryan O'Neil as Michael?

I can't see any of those actors playing Michael...they don't even look Italian, fer chrissakes...Pacino totally made the part his own, and appropriately enough it's the part that made his career. I'd be brazen to say that if Al Pacino had died in 1975 his reputation as an actor would have remained intact simply based on the first two Godfather movies...I don't think it's much of an exaggeration that film-career wise it's sorta been downhill for Pacino since 1974.

As for De Niro, I think he managed to out-Brando Brando with his performance of Vito in Part II...he completely nailed Vito's mannerisms and voice inflections playing the character; De Niro makes the film for me. He totally earned and deserved that Oscar, even more than the Best Actor award he got for Raging Bull IMO.

Edited by Nutrocker

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Godfather Artwork for the Re-Releases May 9, 2017

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I would rather watch Godfather III than any of the Star Wars movies. I like Star Wars but IMO only one movie in the whole series made it beyond B movie category and that was Empire, the rest were middling at best.

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2 hours ago, IpMan said:

I would rather watch Godfather III than any of the Star Wars movies. I like Star Wars but IMO only one movie in the whole series made it beyond B movie category and that was Empire, the rest were middling at best.

I wouldn't put Rogue One in that category.

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10 hours ago, FL6 said:

I wouldn't put Rogue One in that category.

I would. In regard to Star Wars, we (me and Star Wars) are in a semi-abusive relationship. Every damn movie I have seen except for Empire has disappointed me to one degree on another yet I keep coming back, like some long suffering abused spouse...expecting things to change.

Oh well, nobody's fault but mine.

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I saw a good video that mentioned both of these trilogies and said that Godfather was like a fine wine and Star Wars was like water. With Star Wars, you can put it on for just about anyone and even if they don't like it, they'll more than likely get the appeal (especially for those who saw it when it came out or those who saw it as little kids).

But with The Godfather, you need to think deeper. When I first saw Star Wars when I was seven years old, I immediately loved it. When I first saw Godfather as a teen, I liked it, but thought it was slow in some parts and couldn't quite understand why it was the "greatest film of all time". But then I thought more about it. I read discussions on various forums and interpretations of scenes and realized that it was a whole lot more than I was giving it credit for. When I watched it again, I noticed that scenes I thought were slow and too long (ie. the wedding scene) seemed perfectly paced and did a great job at moving the story along. Every scene in the film is essential. Not one minute is wasted. Take any scene out and something would be missing.

On the other hand, Star Wars may be the perfect blockbuster. It's got a tried and true story formula (the hero's journey) updated for modern audiences and expertly blends many different film genres (sci-fi, fantasy, adventure, action, romance) into one. It's got iconic characters and was a revolution in special effects.

Interestingly, both trilogies follow a similar pattern. The first film broke box office records and became a pop culture phenomenon. The second surpassed all expectations and is even seen as superior to the original film. The third film is seen as underwhelming with lots of problems and wasted potential.

Ultimately, I'd say the Godfather is superior. The characters are more complex and "real", the story is more engaging, and, unlike Star Wars, nobody is safe from death.

I will say, though, that I prefer Return of the Jedi over Godfather III. Even though it has its fair share of problems (the LONG scenes in Jabba's palace, the Ewoks, the more child-friendly tone), it is still an ultimately satisfying conclusion, imo. Plus, it needed to be made since Empire ended on a cliffhanger. Godfather III was just totally unnecessary and just reinforced the themes in Godfather II (Michael's desire to protect his family ultimately proves to be his undoing). The ending to Godfather II wrapped the story up perfectly and there was no reason to produce a sequel. Even though it has some redeeming qualities, it's ultimately pointless.

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I have to go with The Godfather. The Godfather is my third favorite movie of all time and Star Wars is my fourth favorite movie of all time. I became a fan of The Godfather the first time I saw it when I was ten years old in 77. I saw Star Wars when it first came out in the summer of 77 but, I really didn't become a big fan until 1985 I've been hooked ever since. The downfall of Michael Corleone is better by far than the downfall of Anakin Skywalker.

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Gotta go wid da' Godfodda. Capiche?

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OMG.  As much as I love astronomy, if you want to know my side of these movies, its The Godfather all day.  I never liked Star Wars.  But I loved Star Trek

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As much as I love Star Wars, I pick The Godfather, though part three sucked big time.

 

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Star Wars for me, but I'm biased. :D

Robert

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21 hours ago, BledZabbath said:

As much as I love Star Wars, I pick The Godfather, though part three sucked big time.

 

I am sure Pacino would agree. 

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Posted (edited)

Godfather III could have been an excellent movie about the Vatican banking scandal but no, they use the Godfather story as a vehicle instead which completely convoluted both main plots. Furthermore, Michael's greatest ambition was to legitimize the "business." Just as he is doing so along comes his nephew, Vincent, who does everything in his power to tank that idea while simultaneously ignoring every damn order Michael gives him AND screwing his daughter. Michael had both his brother and brother in law murdered but he allows this jackass to keep on keeping on? 

If this movie would have stayed true to Michael's character it would have been about 20 minutes long. As soon as Joey Zaza showed up to explain to Michael what Vince was up to that would have been that, no more Vince, movie over.

The whole damn movie I am thinking... what the hell is Michael doing? This makes no sense.

Edited by IpMan

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