Cultural impact

[wilsoncb420]

i think their culture is explained by Roberts many "Plantations". Their music was a "journey" away from reality. When the album is over, BACK TO REALITY.

Bands that did that before? none IMO. Tons of great music before Zep. None that really sent you on a journey of the mind/imagination with every album. Its like all their songs and albums are a picture or a story. John Lennon came a tiny bit close a few times, but Zeppelin defined this effective approach with music and ART.

[Geezer]

I don't think you understand what cultural impact means. It's about influencing the culture in different ways, not about entering some fantasy land.

[wilsoncb420]

Well, maybe I just don't know what you mean. I don't think you know what I meant by my statement either.

in a nutshell, Led Zeppelin defined a more creative type of pop music that went against the norm (for pop). One that is more imaginative. It was effective. An art.

if that doesn't make sense, maybe looking at pictures of their shows/the crowd/their following will better explain what I am trying to say.

[Geezer]

You have no idea what you're talking about.

[wilsoncb420]

with a mother who fought and fought and fought her father (my grandfather) to go see Zep in Tampa in '73 with no luck, I think they were taboo in a way. They weren't the first in this aspect.

[wilsoncb420]

You have no idea what you're talking about.

ok. thats fine. your thread. apologies.

[GeorgeC]

Maybe Wilson's referring to Zeppelin's long (for the era) concerts, and the way the band operated below the pop radar of the 1960s and 70s: they were a very successful act with a devoted following, but they weren't household names to the general public.

In that sense, LZ had a cultural impact of demonstrating how popular and commercial an artist could be, at least in those days, without being overly hyped. After Zeppelin there were quite a few bands that sold lots of records and tickets, but who otherwise weren't multimedia sensations - I'm thinking Skynyrd, Boston, Sabbath, Floyd, Kansas, the Doobie Brothers...pick a name.

It might have had something to do with the size of the Baby Boomer market, the influence of FM radio, and the nature of the music industry at the time. Zeppelin was kind of a best-kept secret for many years, overshadowed publicity-wise by the Stones, Wings, Elton John, Bowie, the Bee Gees, Queen, even the Osmonds, for Christ's sake. Other critics have referred to Zep's "underground" reputation for much of their active career. It really wasn't until some time after 1980 that they became the rock royalty they are now.

Am I making sense?

[kipper]

they didnt influence any culture just music. most of the cultural influence of rock music was from america to other countries

[nat431]

Maybe Wilson's referring to Zeppelin's long (for the era) concerts, and the way the band operated below the pop radar of the 1960s and 70s: they were a very successful act with a devoted following, but they weren't household names to the general public.

In that sense, LZ had a cultural impact of demonstrating how popular and commercial an artist could be, at least in those days, without being overly hyped. After Zeppelin there were quite a few bands that sold lots of records and tickets, but who otherwise weren't multimedia sensations - I'm thinking Skynyrd, Boston, Sabbath, Floyd, Kansas, the Doobie Brothers...pick a name.

It might have had something to do with the size of the Baby Boomer market, the influence of FM radio, and the nature of the music industry at the time. Zeppelin was kind of a best-kept secret for many years, overshadowed publicity-wise by the Stones, Wings, Elton John, Bowie, the Bee Gees, Queen, even the Osmonds, for Christ's sake. Other critics have referred to Zep's "underground" reputation for much of their active career. It really wasn't until some time after 1980 that they became the rock royalty they are now.

Am I making sense?

No, you are not making sense. STH is the most requested song in FM history! Their hits were over played on the radio at the time...millions of records sold world-wide prior to 1980. LZ IV was only out sold by Carole King's Tapestry...at the time. They were no "best kept secret" and were certainly known by radio listeners...at the time. "Publicity-wise" they chose to avoid television and only gave interviews to select journalists...at the time. Can you site what critics refer to their "underground reputation", since they were selling out huge stadiums...at the time? And as far as being "rock royalty" have you seen TSRTS with the footage of their caravan of limos and police escorts? And do you know anything about their record contract with Atlantic...they practically came out of the gate as "rock royalty". No, they were not some scrappy underground band. None of what you say is historically accurate or born out by any facts now or at the time. How old are you?

[nat431]

Maybe Wilson's referring to Zeppelin's long (for the era) concerts, and the way the band operated below the pop radar of the 1960s and 70s: they were a very successful act with a devoted following, but they weren't household names to the general public.

In that sense, LZ had a cultural impact of demonstrating how popular and commercial an artist could be, at least in those days, without being overly hyped. After Zeppelin there were quite a few bands that sold lots of records and tickets, but who otherwise weren't multimedia sensations - I'm thinking Skynyrd, Boston, Sabbath, Floyd, Kansas, the Doobie Brothers...pick a name.

It might have had something to do with the size of the Baby Boomer market, the influence of FM radio, and the nature of the music industry at the time. Zeppelin was kind of a best-kept secret for many years, overshadowed publicity-wise by the Stones, Wings, Elton John, Bowie, the Bee Gees, Queen, even the Osmonds, for Christ's sake. Other critics have referred to Zep's "underground" reputation for much of their active career. It really wasn't until some time after 1980 that they became the rock royalty they are now.

Am I making sense?

No you are not making sense., STH is the most requested song in FM history! Their hits were over played on the radio at the time...millions of records sold world-wide prior to 1980. LZ IV was only out sold by Carole King's Tapestry...at the time. They were no "best kept secret" and were certainly known by radio listeners...at the time. "Publicity-wise" they chose to avoid television and only gave interviews to select journalists...at the time. Can you site what critics refer to their "underground reputation", since they were selling out huge stadiums...at the time? And as far as being "rock royalty" have you seen TSRTS with the footage of their caravan of limos and police escorts? And do you know anything about their record contract with Atlantic...they practically came out of the gate as "rock royalty". No, they were not some scrappy underground band. None of what you say is historically accurate or born out by any facts now or at the time. How old are you?

[yialison]

I don't know exactly how they afftected culture in general

(In their heyday, Korea was under military dictatorship, so we couldn't actually experience Zeppelin)

but definitely one thing is for sure.

Led Zep has created music which sounds incredible(the first time I heard [Whole Lotta Love] I thought I was being electrocuted)

and will do after so many years making people think that human beings are capable of achieving so much and if you just try you can connect with people through time and space.

[Disco Duck]

Maybe Wilson's referring to Zeppelin's long (for the era) concerts, and the way the band operated below the pop radar of the 1960s and 70s: they were a very successful act with a devoted following, but they weren't household names to the general public.

In that sense, LZ had a cultural impact of demonstrating how popular and commercial an artist could be, at least in those days, without being overly hyped. After Zeppelin there were quite a few bands that sold lots of records and tickets, but who otherwise weren't multimedia sensations - I'm thinking Skynyrd, Boston, Sabbath, Floyd, Kansas, the Doobie Brothers...pick a name.

It might have had something to do with the size of the Baby Boomer market, the influence of FM radio, and the nature of the music industry at the time. Zeppelin was kind of a best-kept secret for many years, overshadowed publicity-wise by the Stones, Wings, Elton John, Bowie, the Bee Gees, Queen, even the Osmonds, for Christ's sake. Other critics have referred to Zep's "underground" reputation for much of their active career. It really wasn't until some time after 1980 that they became the rock royalty they are now.

Am I making sense?

Not really. Led Zeppelin was huge; ubiquitous even during the 70s. As other posters pointed out, their hit songs got a lot of play on FM radio. However, you are right about one thing: even though Zep had a huge fan base and got lots of radio air time, they did not have the respect of most music critics. From what I've read, this was partly due to their fan base consisting mostly of teenagers.

[Bayougal65]

IMHO one way Zeppelin had a major cultural impact was exposing and educating my generation to and about music that I really doubt we would have discovered on our own.

Early American Blues, 50's, Folk, Celtic, Arabic, Indian, even country and some classical (Bach's Bouree, anyone?)!

Zeppelin was fearless in taking flavors from many musical genres and cultures, then mixing it all up, putting a cool Zep spin on it and then hitting you between the eyes with it; either whisper subtle, or at earthquake volume!

I feel fortunate to have had an early exposure to Zeppelin and through them a greater appreciation of many flavors of music.

This band was passionate about music, all music!

I think Zeppelin's love of all music affected an entire generation and I can't think of another band with so broad a palette who has had this impact.

[ScarletMacaw]

I don't know if it counts as a broad "cultural" impact, but perhaps the ludicrosity of critics ragging on or ignoring Zeppelin while they were becoming a phenomenon, packing stadiums, etc. changed journalism because I remember when I became a journalist in the 80s there was a trend for reporters to need expertise in the area they were writing about. In the 70s, it seems to me a lot of writing was overly flamboyant and shooting from the hip and today feature journalism is more subdued and has been for some time.

[nat431]

Not really. Led Zeppelin was huge; ubiquitous even during the 70s. As other posters pointed out, their hit songs got a lot of play on FM radio. However, you are right about one thing: even though Zep had a huge fan base and got lots of radio air time, they did not have the respect of most music critics. From what I've read, this was partly due to their fan base consisting mostly of teenagers.

Initially, they were scorned by critics as a "hype" band...thought to be manufactured by the record company, due in part as I said, precisely because they didn't come up through the ranks in the eyes of critics. Of course each member had definitely paid his "dues", but the band as a whole were seen to have "already arrived", so to speak. And in reality they were anything but manufactured. As has been mentioned earlier in the thread, having sole control over the music that was produced, where and when they would play, what songs were put on albums and radio and how much money the band would retain was a huge impact on future artists who would follow their lead. Having a manger who guarded and maintained their artistry as opposed to milking the artist and taking huge profits and control of them was also huge in its impact on the way the music business was handled. This in turn influenced many artists who took greater control over their art...the publishing and production as well as the performing aspects of it.

[GeorgeC]

No you are not making sense., STH is the most requested song in FM history! Their hits were over played on the radio at the time...millions of records sold world-wide prior to 1980. LZ IV was only out sold by Carole King's Tapestry...at the time. They were no "best kept secret" and were certainly known by radio listeners...at the time. "Publicity-wise" they chose to avoid television and only gave interviews to select journalists...at the time. Can you site what critics refer to their "underground reputation", since they were selling out huge stadiums...at the time? And as far as being "rock royalty" have you seen TSRTS with the footage of their caravan of limos and police escorts? And do you know anything about their record contract with Atlantic...they practically came out of the gate as "rock royalty". No, they were not some scrappy underground band. None of what you say is historically accurate or born out by any facts now or at the time. How old are you?

A few points.

I never said LZ weren't hugely successful between 1968 and 1980 - they were. However, after "Whole Lotta Love" they never had an inescapable hit single. Yes, "Stairway" and other tracks were very popular on FM radio, but the average commuter or housewife wan't tuning in.

Second, most critics of the era (Lester Bangs, for example) lumped Zeppelin into the Heavy Metal category. Maybe they were thought of as the best Heavy Metal act, but they were still distinguished from the accepted rock mainstream. I can also quote Jim Miller's positive review of Physical Graffiti in Rolling Stone: "From Hamburg to Hong Kong, Led Zeppelin attract sellout crowds...But they have never made an impact beyond the relatively narrow confines of rock" (or words to that effect).

While Zeppelin was touring and making their timeless records, numerous other acts (who turned out to be less popular in the long run) were getting more press coverage. In the early 1970s there were singer-songwriters like Joni Mitchell, Neil Young, and Carole King; there was also the sensational shock rock of good ol' Alice Cooper. The Rolling Stones' 1972 North American tour overshadowed Zeppelin's in the media, which is why the band hired Danny Goldberg to do publicity for the following year's campaign. Then came the glam wave of Bowie, T-Rex, Sweet, Slade, et al. 1975 was the year of Springsteen's Born to Run, at least in the US, although by then Kiss was starting to get a lot of notice - that band was a four-man publicity stunt (I like Kiss, by the way). Punk and disco made headlines in '76, '77, and '78. And don't forget some of the other big sensations of the era which competed with Zeppelin albums and tickets for entertainment dollars: The Exorcist was a blockbuster in 1974, ditto Jaws in 1975, and during Zeppelin's final US tour people were lining up to see a new science-fiction fantasy movie featuring a couple of cute robots.

When Zeppelin disbanded in 1980 their best records and shows were well behind them. It was only during the next decade that their status became assured: their music continued to be deified on FM radio; they were an obvious influence on many current acts (e.g. Def Leppard); they were tarred with the "Satanic panic" allegations of backward masking and Devil-worship; the rise of the Compact Disc allowed listeners to really appreciate Page's production skills (especially when the remastered four-disc Box Set of 1990 came out); even the publication of Hammer of the Gods cemented the band's legend as the ultimate rock warriors. As much as anything, the rank of Led Zeppelin and other artists of their era rose just by comparison to the synthesized video crap that came out in the next few years. If you were having A Flock of Seagulls and Sigue Sigue Sputnik forced down your throat, you'd want to check out Led Zeppelin III.

So: sure, Zeppelin were a rich and famous rock group in the 1970s, no question. But in those days, stardom was not the same as saturation, and that counts as a cultural influence. And yeah, I think I know what I'm talking about.

[nat431]

A few points.

I never said LZ weren't hugely successful between 1968 and 1980 - they were. However, after "Whole Lotta Love" they never had an inescapable hit single. Yes, "Stairway" and other tracks were very popular on FM radio, but the average commuter or housewife wan't tuning in.

Second, most critics of the era (Lester Bangs, for example) lumped Zeppelin into the Heavy Metal category. Maybe they were thought of as the best Heavy Metal act, but they were still distinguished from the accepted rock mainstream. I can also quote Jim Miller's positive review of Physical Graffiti in Rolling Stone: "From Hamburg to Hong Kong, Led Zeppelin attract sellout crowds...But they have never made an impact beyond the relatively narrow confines of rock" (or words to that effect).

While Zeppelin was touring and making their timeless records, numerous other acts (who turned out to be less popular in the long run) were getting more press coverage. In the early 1970s there were singer-songwriters like Joni Mitchell, Neil Young, and Carole King; there was also the sensational shock rock of good ol' Alice Cooper. The Rolling Stones' 1972 North American tour overshadowed Zeppelin's in the media, which is why the band hired Danny Goldberg to do publicity for the following year's campaign. Then came the glam wave of Bowie, T-Rex, Sweet, Slade, et al. 1975 was the year of Springsteen's Born to Run, at least in the US, although by then Kiss was starting to get a lot of notice - that band was a four-man publicity stunt (I like Kiss, by the way). Punk and disco made headlines in '76, '77, and '78. And don't forget some of the other big sensations of the era which competed with Zeppelin albums and tickets for entertainment dollars: The Exorcist was a blockbuster in 1974, ditto Jaws in 1975, and during Zeppelin's final US tour people were lining up to see a new science-fiction fantasy movie featuring a couple of cute robots.

When Zeppelin disbanded in 1980 their best records and shows were well behind them. It was only during the next decade that their status became assured: their music continued to be deified on FM radio; they were an obvious influence on many current acts (e.g. Def Leppard); they were tarred with the "Satanic panic" allegations of backward masking and Devil-worship; the rise of the Compact Disc allowed listeners to really appreciate Page's production skills (especially when the remastered four-disc Box Set of 1990 came out); even the publication of Hammer of the Gods cemented the band's legend as the ultimate rock warriors. As much as anything, the rank of Led Zeppelin and other artists of their era rose just by comparison to the synthesized video crap that came out in the next few years. If you were having A Flock of Seagulls and Sigue Sigue Sputnik forced down your throat, you'd want to check out Led Zeppelin III.

So: sure, Zeppelin were a rich and famous rock group in the 1970s, no question. But in those days, stardom was not the same as saturation, and that counts as a cultural influence. And yeah, I think I know what I'm talking about.

What are the demographic ages of the people who were not tuning in...who exactly are these commuters and housewives you speak about? Sure, my parents who were married in 1945 and had 6 kids between 1946-1960 were not tuning in, but then they were either watching TV or listening to their "oldies stations" that played the likes of Dean Martin. You write with such sweeping generalities about a time when yes, there was a lot going on musically, but like I said, without knowing what age bracket you are talking about, it was really hard to miss Stairway to Heaven. I know none of my siblings missed it playing ad nausem on the radio. And are you coming at this from the point of view that LZ was a "heavy metal" band?

[Knebby]

George makes a lot of valid points. You seem to be approaching from a purely America-centric viewpoint. They were not household names in the whole world, nor even the whole of America.

[nat431]

George makes a lot of valid points. You seem to be approaching from a purely America-centric viewpoint. They were not household names in the whole world, nor even the whole of America.

Still I am a little confused by this notion of being a "household name". Who other than Elvis would have been household name? Assuming by household name you mean a group or someone whose recognition was very widespread. Even the Beatles were not really that known by the likes of my parents. Sure they knew of them, but were not listening to their music. And it wasn't until the late 70's that my parents had interest in Elvis and it was only their interest in him as an icon that they took us to see him in concert...still they were not active listeners. So in using the term "household" are we talking about the children of the house or the entire of the house and again, I would beg to differ on that depending on the demographics. And yes, I am speaking about the US as I thought that was what George was referring to in using American references to groups and movies, etc. But that their would even be a discussion of world-wide "household-ism" gives credence to the notion that they were far from an "underground" phenomenon, which assertion George has not substantiated in his comments.

And I have not read that a publicist was hired to counteract the publicity of another band's tour(s), but my understanding of that move was for the band to put out the publicity it wanted to, to counteract negative criticism by critics who did not understand what they were doing, and to further avoid the need to give interviews to those journalists that would be less likely to understand their musical intent. Again, I think George extrapolates here and puts meaning on events that may or may not be a direct result of something else. I have read numerous books none of them have made a direct one-to-one correlation based on interviews or statements that the hiring of a publicist was based another band's lead over them relating to a specific tour.

[mstork]

George makes a lot of valid points. You seem to be approaching from a purely America-centric viewpoint. They were not household names in the whole world, nor even the whole of America.

"Household name" is hard to quantify. I was a preteen kid in the 70's and there was absolutely no Zeppelin being played on my parents' radios, turntable, or 8 tracks. But I and all of my peers knew darn well who Led Zeppelin was, we knew Stairway, we knew Jimmy Page was the most far-out guitarist on the planet who played with a bow when he wasn't playing a double neck, etc. We even knew about the fabled deal with the devil, even before HOTG wrote about that stuff in the 80's! All word of mouth from the cool teens on our street.

I'd say in the 70's Zep was a household name in any household that had kids in it. In the states at least.

[Knebby]

Well that's part of my point. There's a huge world outside of the USA. ( I know you acknowledge this - many don't appear to. Cue Del )

[nat431]

Well that's part of my point. There's a huge world outside of the USA. ( I know you acknowledge this - many don't appear to. Cue Del )

I certainly don't discount their acclaim outside of the US, but doesn't the fact that they targeted US audiences speak for itself? And speaking of Elvis, wasn't it he who wanted to know who this band was that was out selling him?

"Household name" is hard to quantify. I was a preteen kid in the 70's and there was absolutely no Zeppelin being played on my parents' radios, turntable, or 8 tracks. But I and all of my peers knew darn well who Led Zeppelin was, we knew Stairway, we knew Jimmy Page was the most far-out guitarist on the planet who played with a bow when he wasn't playing a double neck, etc. We even knew about the fabled deal with the devil, even before HOTG wrote about that stuff in the 80's! All word of mouth from the cool teens on our street.

I'd say in the 70's Zep was a household name in any household that had kids in it. In the states at least.

My point exactly...I just don't get this notion of an underground, well-kept secret, because it just wasn't like that! My friend recently told me how she was at Disneyworld and the ride she was going on had to be evacuated so that the members of Led Zeppelin could ride on it by themselves...she saw them being escorted off the ride with lots of people ogling over them...that was in the 70's.

[nat431]

Well that's part of my point. There's a huge world outside of the USA. ( I know you acknowledge this - many don't appear to. Cue Del )

Excuse my ignorance, but what does "Cue Del" mean?

[Pagesbow]

It might have had something to do with the size of the Baby Boomer market, the influence of FM radio, and the nature of the music industry at the time. Zeppelin was kind of a best-kept secret for many years, overshadowed publicity-wise by the Stones, Wings, Elton John, Bowie, the Bee Gees, Queen, even the Osmonds, for Christ's sake. Other critics have referred to Zep's "underground" reputation for much of their active career. It really wasn't until some time after 1980 that they became the rock royalty they are now.

Am I making sense?

To put a U.K perspective on what you are saying there, I don't think they have ever been "rock royalty" here but maybe in the last decade they have started to get their dues and become more appreciated by the media.

Just the other day I was talking to some random person on the net aged around late 20's to early 30's, I mentioned Led Zeppelin and they had no idea who (or what) that was. I threw out, Black Sabbath? no idea. I knew what the answer would be, but I had to ask, Queen? or course they Know who Queen are - If I'd have asked them they would no doubt of listed me 30 songs of theirs. In the U.K, Queen have the biggest selling album of all time and Zeppelin don't have any in the top 40. That sadly, says it all.

Led Zeppelin, from what I gather, tended to be a band one would learn about through an older sibling or some such thing. I was an only child born in '77 and I am ashamed to say I never knew they existed until 1993 when I saw Led Zeppelin Four in the CD collection of a friend's father. Again, to my eternal shame, I didn't even play it, instead I picked up another CD (Bat Out of Hell) because I thought the cover looked interesting. I don't consider myself to have been sheltered during the years 77-93; I was interested in music, listened to the radio, and had cable T.V

I only saw Zep once on T.V - It was a one off event so I remember it well - a VH1 special featuring Ritchie Sambora where the artist gets to pick their ten favourite videos; he picked Dazed and Confused, the live Supershow version. That is when I first heard a single note of Led Zeppelin. I eventually got into Zep in 1998 when I saw Remasters in Woolworths (defunct U.K shop) and thought I'd take a chance on it - the rest is history.

Growing up I was of course aware of artists like The Beatles, The Stones, Queen and Elton John and, unless I am some rare isolated case, I can only come to the conclusion (from my own experience) that Zeppelin had little to no cultural impact in the U.K on the average man/woman in the street who wasn't a rock fan.

[Knebby]

Sorry, Del's just a banned member who is always here under other names (like now) - he doesn't like me to mention the USA at all.