Why did Robert decide to send so many digs to Jimmy?

[DropDown]

... Since I have finally got round to contributing to this thread I should say :

Pottedplant, I'm very much with you, very well put

and The Dark Lord, thanks for sharing a story which really underlines the point many people have made, and which, I think, is pretty true to others' experience too.

+1

[aen27]

Robert and Jimmy are and will always remain friends, I think, but their temperaments are extremely different. There are various interviews where Robert has said things that I don't particularly like, even apart from the ones that have been discussed here. And it is true that he sometimes makes unnecessary, somewhat nasty asides about other musicians (not talking about Jimmy here). Well, I don't really like that either. But hey, Robert is allowed to be himself ... and there was a rather lengthy period where he obviously felt a need to put some distance between himself and JP and the whole Zep legacy. You can criticize that if you're so inclined, but what's the point? He needed to go off at the time and record Shaken 'n' Stirred or whatever. That's what he's supposed to do, as an artist - what he is keen on doing and what he believes in.

Agreed.

It still doesn't mean Robert needs to be nasty to Jimmy at his every oppurtunity when Jimmy practically discovered him. It makes him look ungrateful.

[Disco Duck]

Robert and Jimmy are and will always remain friends, I think, but their temperaments are extremely different. There are various interviews where Robert has said things that I don't particularly like, even apart from the ones that have been discussed here. And it is true that he sometimes makes unnecessary, somewhat nasty asides about other musicians (not talking about Jimmy here). Well, I don't really like that either. But hey, Robert is allowed to be himself ... and there was a rather lengthy period where he obviously felt a need to put some distance between himself and JP and the whole Zep legacy. You can criticize that if you're so inclined, but what's the point? He needed to go off at the time and record Shaken 'n' Stirred or whatever. That's what he's supposed to do, as an artist - what he is keen on doing and what he believes in.

Where do you see John Paul Jones fitting in? He and Page go way back. They worked together as session musicians during the mid 1960's.

[Disco Duck]

It was only my observation after re looking at it more recently. It wasn't a matter of being a fan or not. If I am not wrong, she would have every right to be irritated by her husbands exclusion for Unledded. I was delighted that Jonsey was able to get that in his in Rock Hall speech. Jimmy even smiled. I agree that Maureen looks very good still. Charlotte does also, even though she and Jimmy aren't together, they share 2 grandchildren.

Speaking of Maureen Baldwin...according to Led Zeppelin lore, it was she who suggested JPJ give Jimmy Page a call and see if he needed a bass player for the new band he was putting together. JPJ once mentioned in an interview that she did his scheduling and kept track of his bookings when he was a session musician. That made me wonder if Maureen Baldwin had worked in the music industry before they married; perhaps as a receptionist or secretary. Does anyone know?

[Bayougal65]

Where do you see John Paul Jones fitting in? He and Page go way back. They worked together as session musicians during the mid 1960's.

From all I have read, JPJ has always been most respectful of Jimmy.

Below is one of my favorite interviews of his, he is respectful, yet very honest.

http://www.uncut.co.uk/led-zeppelin/john-paul-jones-on-jimmy-page-interview

I really do respect JPJ so much!

And I feel he should have been included in the recent Song Writer's HOF nomination right along with P&P, as his arranging was key to most of Zep's music and his contribution to most songs was essential!

Edited for clarity.

[Otto Masson]

Agreed.

It still doesn't mean Robert needs to be nasty to Jimmy at his every oppurtunity when Jimmy practically discovered him. It makes him look ungrateful.

Surely, if you think about it, you'll see that this is an exaggeration! Robert has also often spoken very highly indeed of Jimmy as a musician. There was a period when Robert needed to put some distance between himself and that Zep background, and as I see it, that need motivated the more sort of negative remarks. When it comes to personal relations between the two men, it's really more than a little risky to assess how it has developed. It does seem clear that Jimmy's problems in the late 1970's affected Robert, who I think tended to idolize Jimmy somewhat in the earlier years. Remember also that within the band Robert's role was mainly to come up with melodies and lyrics; musically he may have felt he still had a lot to prove after Led Zeppelin ended. In order to just get on with it, it may have been necessary to get some space to move in, you know what I mean? The legacy could be limiting in a way, because it had to be his own thing by then - no longer working on Jimmy's riffs and chord sequences, etc.

And there's another side to Jimmy's discovery of Robert. Yes, Robert does owe a lot to Led Zeppelin, but he had a lot of talent - which is why he got into the band in the first place. Sure, the band made him sound great; but you could say the same thing about all the others, including of course Jimmy himself. He had a vision for this band; but the personnel just worked together in a way that nobody could have ever predicted. There was a real magic in the chemistry of the band. One of the great things about Jimmy, in my view anyway, is that he realized that from the outset, and that giving the rest of the band a real opportunity to contribute to the music didn't work against his own vision.

[Otto Masson]

Bayougal, thank you so much for the link to that interview with Jonesy - wonderful to read.

Where do you see John Paul Jones fitting in? He and Page go way back. They worked together as session musicians during the mid 1960's.

Jonesy has answered this for me, hasn't he?The thing is they worked together in the sixties on sessions, as Jonesy talks about in the interview, but it was always mostly a professional relationship, whereas Jimmy and Robert became close friends in Led Zeppelin. If there are some real ideas to work on, they may still do it together - you never know - but that of course is not Led Zeppelin.

[aen27]

Surely, if you think about it, you'll see that this is an exaggeration! Robert has also often spoken very highly indeed of Jimmy as a musician. There was a period when Robert needed to put some distance between himself and that Zep background, and as I see it, that need motivated the more sort of negative remarks. When it comes to personal relations between the two men, it's really more than a little risky to assess how it has developed. It does seem clear that Jimmy's problems in the late 1970's affected Robert, who I think tended to idolize Jimmy somewhat in the earlier years. Remember also that within the band Robert's role was mainly to come up with melodies and lyrics; musically he may have felt he still had a lot to prove after Led Zeppelin ended. In order to just get on with it, it may have been necessary to get some space to move in, you know what I mean? The legacy could be limiting in a way, because it had to be his own thing by then - no longer working on Jimmy's riffs and chord sequences, etc.

And there's another side to Jimmy's discovery of Robert. Yes, Robert does owe a lot to Led Zeppelin, but he had a lot of talent - which is why he got into the band in the first place. Sure, the band made him sound great; but you could say the same thing about all the others, including of course Jimmy himself. He had a vision for this band; but the personnel just worked together in a way that nobody could have ever predicted. There was a real magic in the chemistry of the band. One of the great things about Jimmy, in my view anyway, is that he realized that from the outset, and that giving the rest of the band a real opportunity to contribute to the music didn't work against his own vision.

Very well explained. I agree he has said as many nice things as he has negitive.

[pottedplant]

I loved the Jonsey interview. Thank you Bayou Gal. I have grown to really love JPJ and his contribution to Zeppelin. Now, I always listen for his baseline or keyboard in every song. What stuck out to me in the interview is how much he loved playing with Jimmy and the band and how he still loves Zeppelin. They were all heartbroken when Bonzo died and Zeppelin ended. He would still love to play with Jimmy and I just know that Robert would too. You might have to hit him over the head with a frying pan to get him to admit it, but Robert would love to play with Jimmy again. They were all meant to be together. Now I am so sad.

[DropDown]

I loved the Jonsey interview. Thank you Bayou Gal. I have grown to really love JPJ and his contribution to Zeppelin. Now, I always listen for his baseline or keyboard in every song. What stuck out to me in the interview is how much he loved playing with Jimmy and the band and how he still loves Zeppelin. They were all heartbroken when Bonzo died and Zeppelin ended. He would still love to play with Jimmy and I just know that Robert would too. You might have to hit him over the head with a frying pan to get him to admit it, but Robert would love to play with Jimmy again. They were all meant to be together. Now I am so sad.

Sums it all up really...best rhythm section ever.

[Bayougal65]

I loved the Jonsey interview. Thank you Bayou Gal. I have grown to really love JPJ and his contribution to Zeppelin. Now, I always listen for his baseline or keyboard in every song. What stuck out to me in the interview is how much he loved playing with Jimmy and the band and how he still loves Zeppelin. They were all heartbroken when Bonzo died and Zeppelin ended. He would still love to play with Jimmy and I just know that Robert would too. You might have to hit him over the head with a frying pan to get him to admit it, but Robert would love to play with Jimmy again. They were all meant to be together. Now I am so sad.

Awwww m'cher, don't be sad!

I really think they are all very happy and at peace with their own musical legacies!

What a wonderful career each of them has, both together and apart!

Who knows what the future will bring from the 3 of them, but they sure had a positive effect on all of us who love their music!

There are very few bands that have the ability after 45 years to capture our attention or stir the emotion and conversation like they do!

[pottedplant]

Awwww m'cher, don't be sad!

I really think they are all very happy and at peace with their own musical legacies!

What a wonderful career each of them has, both together and apart!

Who knows what the future will bring from the 3 of them, but they sure had a positive effect on all of us who love their music!

There are very few bands that have the ability after 45 years to capture our attention or stir the emotion and conversation like they do!

But, you know cher, musical heaven for me would be for Jonsey and Pagey to get together. Just piano and guitar. Would we all love that, or what? No Zeppelin, just the two of them doing jazz or blues. What a wonderful sound that would be.

[Bayougal65]

But, you know cher, musical heaven for me would be for Jonsey and Pagey to get together. Just piano and guitar. Would we all love that, or what? No Zeppelin, just the two of them doing jazz or blues. What a wonderful sound that would be.

I agree

Maybe after the opera is complete?

[pottedplant]

Maybe Robert will sing in the Opera

[Bayougal65]

Maybe Robert will sing in the Opera

Now that would be something!

[Disco Duck]

But, you know cher, musical heaven for me would be for Jonsey and Pagey to get together. Just piano and guitar. Would we all love that, or what? No Zeppelin, just the two of them doing jazz or blues. What a wonderful sound that would be.

They tried it shortly after the O2 concert but it didn't work out for whatever reason. Still, as long as both men are alive we can hope they'll get together to make new music again.

[Bayougal65]

They tried it shortly after the O2 concert but it didn't work out for whatever reason. Still, as long as both men are alive we can hope they'll get together to make new music again.

From what I've read it was them jammin' with Jason after the o2 concert to see what might come and then everyone tried to force push a singer because RP had other commitments.

Jimmy commented (I think in the big RS interview) how it was pushed, hurried and didn't have time to develop so it fell apart or he put the kibosh on it.

Too bad Pagey and Jonesy couldn't jam privately at their leisure ... I am with Potted on this one...I think their combined genius would give birth to something really great!

[pottedplant]

From what I've read it was them jammin' with Jason after the o2 concert to see what might come and then everyone tried to force push a singer because RP had other commitments.

Jimmy commented (I think in the big RS interview) how it was pushed, hurried and didn't have time to develop so it fell apart or he put the kibosh on it.

Too bad Pagey and Jonesy couldn't jam privately at their leisure ... I am with Potted on this one...I think their combined genius would give birth to something really great!

You got what I meant, Bayou Gal; that is definitely what I meant - no drums or vocals, just the two of them. I think that it will only happen in our dreams LOL.

[Daniel]

Okay, I promise to stop boring you all with my "meeting" posts, but I wanted to share this as a final post on the topic: one of my mementos of the meeting. I would love to re-connect with Jimmy and discuss that day, as I am positive that there would be some funny memories and laughs shared, and believe it or not, he said that he was looking forward to meeting my wife the next day, but unfortunately that never happened, despite the "all access" passes. I can tell you that he has an impeccable memory, and would remember this meeting, as he shared some "Vancouver" stories with me from his Yardbirds days, and I was shocked at how he recalled the most mundane things with such vivid detail. Good Great guy that Jimmy!

Thank you for sharing the details of your meeting with Jimmy and Robert, must have been a wonderful day! If you should ever become tired of the autographs, I know a guy that would be happy to take them off of your hands!

[aen27]

Okay, I promise to stop boring you all with my "meeting" posts, but I wanted to share this as a final post on the topic: one of my mementos of the meeting. I would love to re-connect with Jimmy and discuss that day, as I am positive that there would be some funny memories and laughs shared, and believe it or not, he said that he was looking forward to meeting my wife the next day, but unfortunately that never happened, despite the "all access" passes. I can tell you that he has an impeccable memory, and would remember this meeting, as he shared some "Vancouver" stories with me from his Yardbirds days, and I was shocked at how he recalled the most mundane things with such vivid detail. Good Great guy that Jimmy!

Thank you so much for sharing this!!! I hope you can reconnect with Jimmy one day!

[The Dark Lord]

Thanks Daniel and aen27! Yes, it was a very amazing day. Its unfortunate, but a lot of the minutia of our meeting are fading from my memory, but it was a day that I shall always treasure, nonetheless.