L.A Forum vs Madison Square Garden

[chapita]

I wanna know what you think guys, for me these stadiums have seen the best of zeppelin.. What do you like more? Performances on LA forum or Madison Square Garden?

Examples

LA Forum

21/8/71

25/6/72 How the West Was Won

31/5/73 Bonzo´s Birthday Party

25/3/75 Last concert in American 75 tour

21/6/77 Listen to this, eddie

Madison Square Garden

27/7/1973 The song remains the same

12/2/1975 Four Blocks in the Snow

7/6/1977 Magical Sound Boogie

[ledzepfilm]

Just wanna make few small corrections: "Listen to This, Eddie" is 6/21/1977, 3/25/1975 was the second to last date of the 1975 US tour and The Song Remains the Same wasn't only 7/27/1973.

[chapita]

Just wanna make a small correction that "Listen to This, Eddie" is 6/21/1977.

[Walter]

You actually need to go back to the September '70 shows to begin the comparison....it's tough because Mike Millard almost single-handily tips it in LA's favor, IMO. Both venues brought the best out of the band, it just seems like the overall vibe was better at LA shows than NYC shows.

[kingzoso]

You actually need to go back to the September '70 shows to begin the comparison....it's tough because Mike Millard almost single-handily tips it in LA's favor, IMO. Both venues brought the best out of the band, it just seems like the overall vibe was better at LA shows than NYC shows.

I think that Los Angeles brought out the best of Led Zeppelin for numerous and various reasons:

better environment (smoggy but warmer)

better groupies (Pamela, Lori, etc...)

better drugs

better decadence

Hollywood - (actors and actresses)

the Riot House

the Rainbow

the Whiskey

Malibu

etc...

In My opinion, Los Angeles was Led Zeppelin's Second Home (away from HOME) and NYC was Their Third Home (away from home).

[chillumpuffer]

I think that Los Angeles brought out the best of Led Zeppelin for numerous and various reasons:

better environment (smoggy but warmer)

better groupies (Pamela, Lori, etc...)

better drugs

better decadence

Hollywood - (actors and actresses)

the Riot House

the Rainbow

the Whiskey

Malibu

etc...

In My opinion, Los Angeles was Led Zeppelin's Second Home (away from HOME) and NYC was Their Third Home (away from home).

I reckon LA and the west coast in general was Zeppelin's first home. Although the UK was the birthplace, the amount of gigs in the UK pales into insignificance the amount the band played in the US

As far as a comparison, LA does it for me. From the Blueberry Hill show at the forum through to the 77 shows. Though I reckon the Berkeley shows from 71 are the band at their best

[Strider]

Well, it's pretty obvious which venue I'm going to pick, hehe.

Yes, Los Angeles was like a home away from home for them it seemed at the time. But while NY was also a place they played often, I wish to point out that New Orleans was a city they loved and spent a lot of time in. Enough so that if I were to rank the American cities that seemed to bring out the best in Led Zeppelin, it would go like this:

1. Los Angeles

2. Seattle

3. San Francisco

4. New Orleans

5. New York

6. Dallas

[tomloge]

Well when I compare the sound quality and the performance quality between How the West Was Won and Song remains the same, LA wins by a mile. Not even close, to me. The LA shows to my ears were far better than the NY shows. And I live in New York!

[ledzepfilm]

Probably because HTWWW wasn't poorly edited together like TSRTS was.

[riffsofpage]

LA forum

Best stairway solo ever

plus I thought song remains same was doctored by JP -quite a bit

millard?

[bluecongo]

I think if we had Millard level MSG recordings, we might be singing a different tune. The MSG 77 performances are devastating. I think Zep played heavier with more business like attitude in NY to impress the cogniscenti and critics, whereas in LA it was more of a celebretory party.

[Bonzo_fan]

Well, it's pretty obvious which venue I'm going to pick, hehe.

Yes, Los Angeles was like a home away from home for them it seemed at the time. But while NY was also a place they played often, I wish to point out that New Orleans was a city they loved and spent a lot of time in. Enough so that if I were to rank the American cities that seemed to bring out the best in Led Zeppelin, it would go like this:

1. Los Angeles

2. Seattle

3. San Francisco

4. New Orleans

5. New York

6. Dallas

+1

I've actually given this topic a lot of thought but never thought to start a topic about it. It always surprises me how low Chicago would be on that list. Do you think the sub-par performances in Chicago are purely the result of poor timing ('73 maybe rusty after the layoff, '75 Plant with the flu & Jimmy's broken finger (the 22nd is pretty good though), '77 I guess the 10th is pretty good aside from the sound quality) or had a bit to do with them not being fond of Chicago? It seems like a place they would be interested in with all of its blues history. I suppose Chicago Stadium would contribute to the poor quality recordings (wasn't it one of the loudest venues for hockey & basketball?).

[Bonzo_fan]

Are we purely considering gigs at The Forum and MSG or all shows in the L.A. & N.Y. areas? This would add Long Beach for L.A. and Uniondale (Nassau Coliseum) for N.Y. If we consider all shows in the respective areas I would break it down like this:

'69: Haven't heard enough from these two spots to comment.

'70: I'd give a slight performance edge to N.Y., but L.A. is aided by far superior sound quality.

'71: Haven't heard the full N.Y. show, what I heard was great though. L.A. has the last show before Plant started to lose his original range (August 21st), so maybe L.A. wins here.

'72: The two shows in Uniondale suffer from inferior recordings, performance-wise they're great though. I'd give the edge to L.A. though.

'73: A rare case where N.Y. wins the sound quality battle (what's on TSRTS at least). Performance-wise the difference is probably negligible.

'75: The last three of the N.Y. shows are either outstanding matrixes (12th) or good/great soundboards (13th & 14th), the first three are decent audience recordings. The first three shows are decent-to-good performance-wise and the last three are great. For L.A. the first night in Long Beach is a great soundboard and a good performance, second night is (until the Millard tape takes over) a mediocre audience recording but a fantastic performance. The three Forum shows are all great Millard recordings, with the performances ranging from decent/good (24th) to excellent (27th), with the 25th somewhere in the middle. I'd give the edge to L.A. here, especially since the improvisations were more developed by the time they got to L.A. (No Quarter in particular).

'77: Recordings are obviously way worse for the N.Y. shows (even with a soundboard of the 7th). Performance-wise L.A. wins as well, although it could be closer than we think if we had better recordings of the N.Y. shows and had the last third of the 14th.

Based on that I guess L.A. wins for me since I only had N.Y. as a clear-cut winner once.

[Bonzo_fan]

I think if we had Millard level MSG recordings, we might be singing a different tune. The MSG 77 performances are devastating. I think Zep played heavier with more business like attitude in NY to impress the cogniscenti and critics, whereas in LA it was more of a celebretory party.

I've noticed that difference at times as well. The question is whether they were better when being business-like or celebrating. They were probably more business-like in '80 than they were in '69 or '70, but I think almost all of us prefer '69 & '70. Of course there are other variables in that comparison, but you know what I mean (I hope).

[Strider]

millard?

Yes, Millard. As in Mike Millard. Every Led Zeppelin fan should know about Mike Millard...you cannot adequately address and discuss Led Zeppelin's live output without acknowledging his contributions. If you're a collector of live shows, sooner or later, you will acquire a Mike Millard show. It is inevitable.

Mike Millard was a guy who lived in L.A. who taped many of the concerts he went to...Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, etc. Seemingly every major rock concert at the Forum, Sports Arena, or Long Beach Arena, from 1975 on to 1980 was recorded by Mike Millard.

He would use a wheelchair to smuggle in his Nakamichi Tape deck and AKG microphones and was a master at timing his tape-flips. He didn't like bootleggers and didn't like it when his tapes made it into bootlegger's hands.

Apparently he battled with severe depression most of his life, eventually committing suicide in 1990. Some reports say that he destroyed all his master concert tapes before killing himself. Others say they are safely in his family's hands. I have no idea.

Only that I would do just about anything to hear them just once.

Some of Mike the Mike's recordings:

One of Millard's Pink Floyd recordings...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh1AaH0Lgck&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[riffsofpage]

Thanks for the information. Those are nice recordings, remarkably lacking all the artifacts associated with microphone movement. Sorry to hear about his illness and subsequent death.

I myself used a sony pro back in the day (80's) and really got tired of hearing the same crowd noise over and over. The music seemed to often take a back seat to it.

Curious, are we calling a bootlegger someone who makes some monetary profit off their recordings? versus anyone who makes a recording of an event without permission regardless of redistribution for a profit?

[apantherfrommd]

Probably because HTWWW wasn't poorly edited together like TSRTS was.

Well said. I couldn't agree more.

[kingzoso]

Well, it's pretty obvious which venue I'm going to pick, hehe.

Yes, Los Angeles was like a home away from home for them it seemed at the time. But while NY was also a place they played often, I wish to point out that New Orleans was a city they loved and spent a lot of time in. Enough so that if I were to rank the American cities that seemed to bring out the best in Led Zeppelin, it would go like this:

1. Los Angeles

2. Seattle

3. San Francisco

4. New Orleans

5. New York

6. Dallas

I pretty much agree with your list and ranking of American cities that seemed to bring out the best in/of Led Zeppelin, but how would you round out the last four? 7 - 10?

One thing I noticed about #3, San Francisco, is that while LZ pretty much made it and a name for Themselves in SF, after the 1973 Kezar stadium concert, LZ did not play in SF on the 1975 or 1977 tour(s).

Also, I tried to discern what knowledge I have about Led Zeppelin and other American cities and bootlegs from said cities and I have come up with the last four. (I know that this is My opinion and not a firm opinion that may not be shared by others that read this).

In no particular order:

Cleveland, Ohio

Houston, Texas

Baton Rouge, Louisiana

Chicago, Illinois...

Anyone else agree or disagree or think that there are/were other Great American Cities that showcased the Very Best of the Mighty Led Zeppelin?.

[Strider]

^^^

Cleveland and Houston would definitely be in one of the #7-#10 slots. Perhaps Detroit or St. Louis, too.

Regarding San Francisco, Led Zeppelin was scheduled to play the 1975 Day on the Green for two days in Oakland but had to cancel when Plant had his accident in August. They ended up playing their final American shows in the Bay Area at the 1977 Day on the Green shows.

[kingzoso]

^^^

Cleveland and Houston would definitely be in one of the #7-#10 slots. Perhaps Detroit or St. Louis, too.

Regarding San Francisco, Led Zeppelin was scheduled to play the 1975 Day on the Green for two days in Oakland but had to cancel when Plant had his accident in August. They ended up playing their final American shows in the Bay Area at the 1977 Day on the Green shows.

I know and agree with what you just posted. However, and I admit, that I have never been to the "Bay Area", but I did travel to LA when I was a 18 year old kid (and Loved what I did when I was there), but I would discount Oakland because Oakland and San Francisco are two separate cities in the state of CA. Just like Dallas and Fort Worth are considered separate cities in Texas even though they are only about 30 - 40 miles apart. D(allas) FW (Fort Worth). DFW (also known as the "Metroplex).

[riffsofpage]

Maybe they felt the Oakland was more central and could pull in more tickets from the east bay/central cal. I'm betting kezar was also congested nightmare for traffic and parking. Albeit just off height ashbury:-)

[Badgeholder Still]

Seattle 72, 73, and 75 are all significant shows. Maybe not 77 so much. They played there 6 times before 72 including their 2nd US gig ever.

[jabe]

I think if we had Millard level MSG recordings, we might be singing a different tune. The MSG 77 performances are devastating. I think Zep played heavier with more business like attitude in NY to impress the cogniscenti and critics, whereas in LA it was more of a celebretory party.

Excellent points.

Hindsight's 80 proof.

I wish there was a LA SRTS to compliment the NY version.