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1,021 posts in this topic

If I were Jimmy i would have my lawyer put a research team together to find as many songs as they could that sound similar to other songs and show the court a presentation that documents how many bands have done the same thing throughout time. I still say 4 notes does not a theft make. Seems like someone has done some research already.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWMdiRq0XKE

Edited by juxtiphi

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Ugh...that woman's voice was annoying as hell. How can you Canucks stand listening to her?

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If this Taurus lawsuit against Led Zeppelin doesn't work, the lawyers will surely go after Ford next. If the trial is held in the U.S.A., they may even find a jury who will believe their argument--

--Ford did not build that car, Spirit built that car!

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Ugh...that woman's voice was annoying as hell. How can you Canucks stand listening to her?

At first I thought that her voice was computerized text-to-speech.

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If I were Jimmy i would have my lawyer put a research team together to find as many songs as they could that sound similar to other songs and show the court a presentation that documents how many bands have done the same thing throughout time. I still say 4 notes does not a theft make. Seems like someone has done some research already.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWMdiRq0XKE

No question that Jimmy's lawyers will put together every legal argument in the book, draw heavily on precedent in music copyright, and probably wipe the floor with their opponents. I'm no lawyer myself, but this case looks totally flimsy.

But they'll be lucky if they can do that job quickly - and unless they can it must mean a serious risk of delaying the fourth album release.

It's an appallingly cynical stunt. It has to be hoped that enough early pressure can be put on them, and very soon, to convince them to withdraw.

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Well I'm of a mind that in fact 99 percent of the shmucks that cling to this anti Led Zeppelin movement that has been around for almost a generation have never even heard of the avant garde Spirit let alone the track in question. It really is nothing new if you have listened to this claim in the past. The first line line is structured very close yet it's similarity ends abruptly. how many songs have I heard in my years that follow the same similarity and I have not given in another thought. Waist of time, if you ask me...

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Thank you, huw, for your musical knowledge. I knew it was a pattern I had heard before but I didn't know a name existed for it.

This is really sad...the internet and radio are now flooded with the ignorant inflated smears of Zep-haters and those who are too lazy to do any real research. So everyone just takes it as gospel now that all Zeppelin did was steal their songs from others.

I suppose it is both a blessing and a curse that Jimmy's appearance on the Tonight Show was pretaped before these lawsuit accusations were publicized. A blessing in that Jimmy was spared having to answer any questions about the lawsuit and having the focus of the Tonight Show spot shift from talking about the new remasters to defending these Stairway accusations.

But also a curse because if he was asked about the lawsuit it would have been a perfect opportunity to show the ignorant public how ridiculous these charges are. Jimmy could have played Davey Graham's "Cry Me a River" and pointed out how Spirit's "Taurus" borrows from it. He could have mentioned the "Lament Bass" pattern that has been used for centuries. He could point out any number of examples of Bob Dylan, Rolling Stones, ZZ Top, Eric Clapton, and others "borrowing" notes, chord patterns, and entire songs without giving credit.

And lawyers wonder why people hate them so.

Well done on all of this Strider and as usual you are well educated in anything you post. Helps to do the research first as so many don't. Most of these suits regarding, just the music never stand up as it's a bit tough to prove this. Although, one of the first one of these if not the first one was George Harrison's "My Sweet Lord" so similar musically to The Chiffon's "He's So Fine". I think GH lost the suit on that. Most of these have been regarding lyrics as Zep's have been.

This suit happened during the late 70's. Not sure what George had to pay on this. Kind of funny that Phil Spector produced this single from George's classic "All Things Must Pass" album and this type of sound was what Phil did with the girl groups back in the 60's Although, I'm not sure if Phil ever worked with the Chiffons, perhaps he had some involvement with using that medley, but not necessarily intentionally.

Not sure of all the details of this and perhaps someone here can fill us in! Just seems more of a coincidence with Spector involved and going for that type of sound, that a medley familiar with those girl groups at the time (whether he worked with them, I'm not sure), would be used on a Phil Spector produced track! Very strange indeed!!

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Quote from the Time Circle collection cd liner notes by Spirit by Randy California.'those guys used to come up and sit in the front row of all our shows,and we became friends.If they want use that,that's fine.I'll let them have the beginning of 'Taurus' for their song'.'

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Check out the first 4 notes of Peter Green doing this BB King song... don't see them suing... should one artist sue because another artist used the same A note or the same Fmaj arpeggio...(sarcastically) "oh all they did was play it in a different order"... who was the first to use a I IV V blues progression lets resurrect them from the grave so they can sue every blues musician in history... this kind of bs makes lawyers who take these cases look like ignorant morons...

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Great comments on here! If I'm not mistaken, wasn't the Dixon lawsuit around the time the box set was released? To me, it's timing. As a guitarist myself, I find it not close mechanically. I wore my '77 tour shirt to work today. It's funny how kids(I'm 42) today believe anything news and media put out. I got the lawsuit and how every song was ripped off. I stopped listening to Stern after his attack on Zep. Sure, Robert nic'd some lyrics. But the output from the band was beyond lifting songs. I think one thing that turns Plant off, is things like this. I will just laugh at the haters. Look at what mainstream pop/rock is today, and these people are critiquing music from the golden age. They can stick to selfies and American Idol-The Voice rubbish.....

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The whole lawsuit has even made it to the news here in Australia on our popular Channel 7, bloody hell, am I gonna be flooded with texts and phone calls, F***** lawyers and cash grabbers!

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I did a vid a while back regarding how there are many songs that share a descending minor chord progression with Stairway...

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Very strange and I am sure this has been pointed out, that they would wait over 40 years to file this. .How stupid.

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Did Jimmy Page's signature descending guitar figure predate Spirit? We know Jimmy Page recorded with a Scottish band called Cartoone sometime in late 1968. Their album was released in January 1969. My question to the forum is this song:

If it can be proven the recording of this song "Ice Cream Dreams" predates Led Zeppelin's appearance with Spirit on 26th December 1968, the claim Jimmy had heard it from Spirit can be thrown out.

The first mention of Cartoone's album being released is in Billboard magazine, dated 28th December 1968, volume 80, issue 52, page 4.

If anyone has any session recordings by Jimmy Page that predates 1968, that has a similar guitar figure, I'd be interested to hear it.

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"They recorded their first album, the eponymous 'Cartoone', with Jimmy Page as guest artist on all tracks, using his Telecaster and Gibson custom acoustic. Zeppelin were recording their debut album at the same time."

http://www.rockingscots.co.uk/cartoone.htm

That makes it October 1968, well before the US tour.

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"They recorded their first album, the eponymous 'Cartoone', with Jimmy Page as guest artist on all tracks, using his Telecaster and Gibson custom acoustic. Zeppelin were recording their debut album at the same time."

http://www.rockingscots.co.uk/cartoone.htm

That makes it October 1968, well before the US tour.

I have that vinyl

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I hereby offer my services, research or otherwise, to Led Zeppelin's lawyers pro bono. Anything I can do to help, I will do.

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I did a vid a while back regarding how there are many songs that share a descending minor chord progression with Stairway...

Excellent researching. That video alone should be enough to knock this ridiculous claim out of the ball park. Though in reality it would probably just turn in to a litigation clusterf**k with everyone suing everyone else for a piece of the pie.

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Zep, sad to say, were notorious thieves, ripping off many artists on their first few albums and not crediting the true source. It's a shame the band wasn't successfully sued decades ago (it is late now) but I hope various Spirit members do get credit or, at a minimum, get compensated from Zep for this egregious theft.

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/led-zeppelin-s-stairway-might-lead-to-a-lawsuit-ViWjBypvRYaXyzmQ~sFknA.html?cmpid=taboola.video

Why wait 40+ years for this and besides the similarities between the two songs are certainly not obvious? I feel there is no grounds for this and Spirit is just trying to cash in from the upcoming Zeppelin boxes. Pretty frivolous suit overall. Plenty of slip and fall lawyers (ambulance chasers) out there, who I'm sure would be more than welcome to take this on.

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Why wait 40+ years for this and besides the similarities between the two songs are certainly not obvious? I feel there is no grounds for this and Spirit is just trying to cash in from the upcoming Zeppelin boxes. Pretty frivolous suit overall. Plenty of slip and fall lawyers (ambulance chasers) out there, who I'm sure would be more than welcome to take this on.

More like "album" chasers!?

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More like "album" chasers!?

Like that!

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Win, lose, or draw, all of these repeated theft allegations have impacted adversely on the name and legacy of Led Zeppelin. I am of two minds on the topic, but the damage done is irreversible at this stage. A case in point being The Simpson's characterization of Jimmy. It's all most unfortunate.

Couldn't have said this better myself. As much as I love Zep, it is very disheartening to keep seeing these accusations. And more than a few appear to be quite meritorious.

I did somehow miss the Simpson's characterization of Jimmy, I will have to Google it. Although sadly, JP is contributing to his own unattractive characterizations, with his promise to "play live soon", something we've been hearing for about 20 years now.

Contributing late, so I'll just go all over the place, lol! Jeff Beck's TRUTH is a MONSTROUSLY good album!

Edit: I found the Simpsons reference. Ouch.

Edited by in_the_evening

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I'm really upset with the Mark Andes and Randy California Estate over this frivolous law suit. They are effectively going to hold up the release of the material for the writing credit. I suppose they think a quick settlement will net them some cash. Really oily if you ask me. I hope Zep’s lawyers dig in their heels. I can wait for my copy.

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