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osoz

Did Led Zeppelin make the right decision to break up?

273 posts in this topic

definitely the right decision jason is awesome but it isn't fair to him to put him in the position of the greatest of all time...They went out with dignity.

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Without doubt, the correct decision.

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John will always be the Heart & Soul of Led Zeppelin, for me.

Edited by The Rover

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I have often wondered how Bonzo's death would have affected the band had they not had all the other issues in recent years. Robert's car accident, his son's death, the drug issues with Grant and Page, as well as tax issues. Had everything been going pretty good for them and Bonham died, then it certainly makes you wonder.

With everything I mentioned or has been stated that went along with his death, then absolutely they made the right decision. However, why would they even have those three sub par reunions between 85 and 95 if they were so convinced they couldn't be together without Bonzo?

The longer it O2 cd and dvd exists, the more I'm convinced that it is one of the most important Zep moments ever. I honestly feel the decision not to tour or reunite since that concert is just as significant not to record another studio album with a new drummer.

Edited by price.pittsburgh

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Why the "reunions"? The only man who can really explain that is Robert Plant, and I don't think even he could adequately explain it. It all boils down to a life of extreme pain and pleasure, all mixed up in the mind of a true artist, highly conflicted with immense pride of what he'd achieved, as well as the true artistic desire to seek new frontiers. If you try too hard to figure him out, your head will explode!

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They made the right decision. You cannot replace Bonzo!!!

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They made the right decision. You cannot replace Bonzo!!!

Hey Mikey! I like it!!

tn_mikey-cereal-commercial.jpg

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Why the "reunions"? The only man who can really explain that is Robert Plant, and I don't think even he could adequately explain it. It all boils down to a life of extreme pain and pleasure, all mixed up in the mind of a true artist, highly conflicted with immense pride of what he'd achieved, as well as the true artistic desire to seek new frontiers. If you try too hard to figure him out, your head will explode!

Valid points. I think we all say things sincerely and mean them but everything falls under conditions. In 1980 they never envisioned a concert as significant as Live Aid or a 24 hour music channel that could make it even bigger. They couldn't envision an Atlantic records anniversary celebration or a Rock and Roll HOF. Plus, people's perspectives change over time. One think they have held true to, is not recording new music/studio albums, without Bonzo

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For all the grief Robert gets for not reuniting he deserves double that in accolades. Just leave well enough alone.

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Maybe JP & JPJ didn't attend Robert's son's funeral because it would have been a fiasco, in that there world have been crowds of people and in doing so create a circus atmosphere. One can only speculate, I think that with Page's dabbling in the Aleister Crowly shit may have given the press a field day.

I never thought that ITTOD was anything more than a Robert Plant solo record, I think Zep stalled after Physical Graffiti, maybe the double disc was an out as it could have been a single lp; Presence could have had the overflow and been a much better record.

At any rate after Presence it was clear Zep needed a break, it couldn't have gone on much longer anyway. They did so much in a short period of time, just like The Beatles did, you just can't go on after that kind of 'rocket to the moon" succsess, you give 110%, it can't last. If either band had stayed together they would not have the legacy they have today. You have to leave people wanting more. The Stones have gone on way to long, same with The Who, they changed music but you forget that because of all the crap recordings since.

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The correct overall decision, yes, but from many sources Page sank into a even more dangerous drug and alcohol stupor. This is not

well known, but before Page was allowed to participate in the U.S. ARMS shows, there was an intervention. The lineup was shocked

by Page's physical frailty and mental shakiness. Clapton, as a former junkie and a friend of Page, had to tell Jimmy he could only join

the tour if he quit heroin before the tour. Jimmy did, but he allegedly did this by doing massive quantities of coke and Jack Daniels.

For the last 25 years Jimmy's weight has often changed drastically due to the booze struggles. Supposedly the drugs are long gone.

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The correct overall decision, yes, but from many sources Page sank into a even more dangerous drug and alcohol stupor. This is not

well known, but before Page was allowed to participate in the U.S. ARMS shows, there was an intervention. The lineup was shocked

by Page's physical frailty and mental shakiness. Clapton, as a former junkie and a friend of Page, had to tell Jimmy he could only join

the tour if he quit heroin before the tour. Jimmy did, but he allegedly did this by doing massive quantities of coke and Jack Daniels.

For the last 25 years Jimmy's weight has often changed drastically due to the booze struggles. Supposedly the drugs are long gone.

I knew Page was in bad shape during the ARMS shows, but I didn't know about the intervention. Based on what I've read here and elsewhere, alcohol, cocaine and Dilaudid were as much of a problem for him as heroin. The addict rock musician who goes into a tailspin after his gig ends seems to be fairly common. Brian Jones, Jim Morrison, Mick Taylor and Joe Walsh all come to mind.

Edited by Disco Duck

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I never thought that ITTOD was anything more than a Robert Plant solo record, I think Zep stalled after Physical Graffiti, maybe the double disc was an out as it could have been a single lp; Presence could have had the overflow and been a much better record.

I don't get 'Robert Plant solo record'. He have done what he was supposed to do, wrote lyrics, like on LZ II, III,IV,HOTH,PG and Presence, does this make those record his solo?

I don't think so. Robert wasn't writing music nor dictating musical direction of the band. Jimmy Page played and produced this record, have he played on and produced any RP solo record (except couple of tracks on N&Z)? Did Bonzo play drums on any RP solo record? Did JPJ wrote any songs for RP? It wasn't solo record, it was bands effort, some members might have had smaller influence than others but still, if they didn't like the songs, they wouldn't put them out.

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Gabrielle, It has been stated by all three members that it wasn't the album "led zep" would make. JPJ & RP took over most of what happened on the album. JP & JB both stated that the next album would be back to what LZ were all about. Jimmy's name is on the album as producer simply because that is how it had always been. JPJ has stated several times that the sessions were pretty much up to he and Robert.

Actually JPJ & Robert were drirecting most of the sessions and musical direction, JP at that point was well into the dreggs of Heroin & Alcohol and was not up to his usual form. IMO I feel that ITTOD is not a rerible album, just a bad Zep album. They didn't have that many songs to choose from at that point but did leave a couple off which ended up on Coda.

Maybe the term "solo" album is a little off but this album was 90% RP & JPJ, who at the beginning were waiting so long for Jimmy to get going they did start on their own.

I remember buying it the day it came out and was very excited when I heard the first sounds of "In the Evening" but aftet that I was a bit taken back. I like "Carouselambra" and "I'm Going to Crawl", they sound like Jimmy was on them, maybe "Fool in the Rain" but the rest were all RP & JPJ. Like I said that is only my opinion based on what I have read through the years. Also the sound of the album and production wise, it didn't hold water for me.

Enjoyed your post!

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So does it bother you that the conventional wisdom is that your alleged heroin addiction impacted your ability to produce In Through the Out Door? The way that story is always presented is that John Paul Jones and Robert Plant took over the completion of that album [recorded in 1978] because you were heavily involved with drugs.

If anyone wants to say that, the first thing you have to ask them is, "Were you there at the time?" The second thing to take on board is the fact that I am the producer of In Through the Out Door. That's what I did. It's right there in black and white. If there were controversy over this, if John Paul Jones or Robert Plant had done what you're implying, wouldn't they have wanted to be listed as the producers of the album? So let's just forget all that.

In the Evening, Carouselambra, I'm Gonna Crawl, Fool in the Rain and Hot Dog that makes 5 out of 7 songs. It doesn't equal 10% to me.

I've read When Giants Walked the Earth, and many other books and interviews. The album is driven by keyboards = JPJ, vocals doesn't stand out like on sme previous records. Why 'Robert's solo album' and not John Paul Jones's? He was more responsible for ITTOD sound than Plant. (I still won't say this was someone's solo album). Jimmy and Bonzo were in studio 'In the Evening'. Even if you think that production wasn't top notch it was part of Jimmy's contribution to this album.

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Kinda sad that JPJ was always such a steady and dependable force with LZ, especially at the end - yet he got snubbed in later chances to reunite in one way or another...

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Kinda sad that JPJ was always such a steady and dependable force with LZ, especially at the end - yet he got snubbed in later chances to reunite in one way or another...

JPJ showed once again that he could step up when necessary. I think he enjoyed his role in Led Zeppelin whatever it was, whether he co-wrote one song of 7 as he did on Presence or 6 of 7 as he did on ITTOD.

I agree that Robert drastically changed his lyrical direction on ITTOD.. There's nothing raunchy.. It changed because HE changed. He went through a devastating, life changing experience. He got off drugs and I would think was in a very reflective and less cocky state of mind. ITTOD reflects this..

But it is not a Robert Plant solo album..

John Bonham, while less bombastic and received no writing credit came up with some of his most creative and tasteful drumming.

Jimmy in some ways took a respectful back seat, which I think he felt was appropriate.. All anyone has to do is give the DW2 soundtrack a spin to hear that his creative brilliance was still obvious. And make no mistake, he produced In Through The Out Door.

I also agree that Pictures At Eleven had much in common with ITTOD. But, by Principle Of Moments, Robert's solo direction was very different..

Edited by the chase

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I think people just sort of think of ITTOD as solo Plant because it's the last regular Zep album before Plant went solo and his voice is much more similar on the album to his solo stuff, than on previous Zep albums.

JPJ showed once again that he could step up when necessary. I think he enjoyed his role in Led Zeppelin whatever it was, whether he co-wrote one song of 7 as he did on Presence or 6 of 7 as he did on ITTOD.

I agree that Robert drastically changed his lyrical direction on ITTOD.. There's nothing raunchy.. It changed because HE changed. He went through a devastating, life changing experience. He got off drugs and I would think was in a very reflective and less cocky state of mind. ITTOD reflects this..

But it is not a Robert Plant solo album..

John Bonham, while less bombastic and received no writing credit came up with some of his most creative and tasteful drumming.

Jimmy in some ways took a respectful back seat, which I think he felt was appropriate.. All anyone has to do is give the DW2 soundtrack a spin to hear that his creative brilliance was still obvious. And make no mistake, he produced In Through The Out Door.

I also agree that Pictures At Eleven had much in common with ITTOD. But, by Principle Of Moments, Robert's solo direction was very different..

I think people just sort of think of ITTOD as solo Plant because it's the last regular Zep album before Plant went solo and his voice is more similar on the album to his solo stuff, than on previous Zep albums, if for no other reason, his age.

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From what I heard and read, even despite Bonzo's death, ultimately yes the right decision was made. Behind the scenes Robert

was really fed up with the drug/alcohol situation, Page in particular, but also Bonzo(just listen to some of the quite diminished 1980

performances). Even Peter Grant was in bad shape. I think JPJ was kind of neutral concerning the band's shape. If you really

research this thing, It really seems that Plant was hellbent on escaping a not really exaggerated sinking

From the breakup, Page was the most affected. He sunk allegedly even deeper into various addictions, and even his guitar skills

began to erode, arguably only to recover at the end of the 80's.

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From what I heard and read, even despite Bonzo's death, ultimately yes the right decision was made. Behind the scenes Robert

was really fed up with the drug/alcohol situation, Page in particular, but also Bonzo(just listen to some of the quite diminished 1980

performances). Even Peter Grant was in bad shape. I think JPJ was kind of neutral concerning the band's shape. If you really

research this thing, It really seems that Plant was hellbent on escaping a not really exaggerated sinking

From the breakup, Page was the most affected. He sunk allegedly even deeper into various addictions, and even his guitar skills

began to erode, arguably only to recover at the end of the 80's.

Not sure I agree with his skills eroding and not recovering until the late 80's. I have seen YouTube videos of his ARMS performances in the US (The Albert Hall gig was horrible) and they were pretty damn good. I saw him in 1985 for The Firm and he was amazing, easily at 1975 level playing if not better. The only era where I feel Page was hit or miss as a guitarist was 77 - 83, after that he recovered very nicely indeed.

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One thing that even I didn't realize was that although I saw the 2 NYC ARMS shows , and certainly Page played with enthusiasm, watching

some of the stuff on YouTube......There were certain points where Page was pumping his right arm, but not touching the strings !!!!!

Ronnie Wood was playing/covering or doubling the rhythm guitar. I play guitar, but when I saw these shows I was about 75 ft. away,

and Wood was barely seen, if at all. To simplify, sound was coming out , but JP's right hand wasn't playing. This is partially why Page

was able to dance around the stage like he was still in Zep.

I actually have some really good Firm audio/video, but unfortunately the 5 NY area shows I saw Page was not sloppy at all. It's just

that even according to my friend, Page had almost lost his ability to solo. Not sloppy at all, just Jimmy unable to connect phrases

together, playing fractured licks. His technique was pretty good, actually.

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Not sure I agree with his skills eroding and not recovering until the late 80's. I have seen YouTube videos of his ARMS performances in the US (The Albert Hall gig was horrible) and they were pretty damn good. I saw him in 1985 for The Firm and he was amazing, easily at 1975 level playing if not better. The only era where I feel Page was hit or miss as a guitarist was 77 - 83, after that he recovered very nicely indeed.

Page's live guitar skills definitely too a hit, beginning with inconsistent performances on the 77 tour. I actually think Plant may have been more inclined to consider a full reunion had Page not been so messed up whenever they played together following the band's breakup. The Atlantic show was the worst, and although blame was shared for Live Aid, I think Page was in bad shape. I think Page was still not yet clean when they did their first Page and Plant tour, with Jimmy still having that drinkers bloat look, and needing a back-up guitarist in the shape of Porl Thompson.

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