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osoz

Did Led Zeppelin make the right decision to break up?

211 posts in this topic

Hasn't Robert stated that he thought Zeppelin had become dinosaurs around the time of Graffiti/Presence? Seems he was probably struggling his last few years with the band. I bet he probably enjoyed making In Through the Out Door . It points to his solo career.

Edited by Tremelo

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Everyone probably has their own feelings on when things were going sour for Led Zeppelin. 
I tag the dinosaur comment at bit later in Zep's timeline.  When Physical Graffiti  was written
and released it was when all cylinders were clicking.  The material for P G is phenomenal and
they had just introduced their very own record label Swan Song.   They were in a good place
then.   The negative would be the tax exile situation that was surfacing  its ugly head for
those who called England home.   The terrible black cloud of doom that some say started to
follow the band around had not surfaced at that point.  I know after Robert's car accident in
1975 things were rocky,   however that was after Physical Graffiti  had been written and
released and they did manage to climb back up on the horse in 1976 to put together
Presence,  even though  some cracks were starting to show.  
 
1977 onward with the hiring of goon Bindon:thumbdown: which in return created the Oakland fiasco.  
The excessive use of drugs from top to bottom in the entire Zeppelin camp.  I know drugs
were always a pivotal part of musicians  life,   but it wasn't wearing its toll on members the way
it did come 1977.  

The dinosaur comment  I always align with Knebworth and the things that came after that.  In
Through The Out Door and 1980 in Europe.   Robert probably grew tired of it all during the
latter part of  1977.   A parent losing a child is obviously going to take a huge toll mentally and
physically on your body.  That was when the kingdom started to crumble for Robert.  

 

Edited by KellyGirl

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That PG statement by Plant does sound odd and off. Maybe sometime in 76' or so Robert started to see and feel a bit of

darkness with the encroaching addictions and physical limitations of the car crash. As or around the album being 

released ? Greatly explained by Kelly Girl, no way.

All the speculation about replacement drummers is mildly intriguing, but entirely misunderstood. Hasn't anyone ever

noticed after Zep that in the Firm, the Outrider project(album and live), etc., basically until Unledded that Jimmy simply

never sounded as full as when he had Bonzo ?? Even then ((Unledded) etc., basically it took JASON till 2007 to do a reasonable version of his dad. Just listen to Zep live with Jimmy soloing on Sick Again, Bonzo is drums and RHYTHM

guitar, and on many more songs. Let alone the ESP improvising between band members.

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2 hours ago, Mithril46 said:

That PG statement by Plant does sound odd and off. Maybe sometime in 76' or so Robert started to see and feel a bit of

darkness with the encroaching addictions and physical limitations of the car crash. As or around the album being 

released ? Greatly explained by Kelly Girl, no way.

All the speculation about replacement drummers is mildly intriguing, but entirely misunderstood. Hasn't anyone ever

noticed after Zep that in the Firm, the Outrider project(album and live), etc., basically until Unledded that Jimmy simply

never sounded as full as when he had Bonzo ?? Even then ((Unledded) etc., basically it took JASON till 2007 to do a reasonable version of his dad. Just listen to Zep live with Jimmy soloing on Sick Again, Bonzo is drums and RHYTHM

guitar, and on many more songs. Let alone the ESP improvising between band members.

Dunno about that. I thought he sounded terrific in 98

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I think Zep choosing to break up was a huge loss to music and rock. I can understand and respect why they did. I also feel that even if they had gotten a drummer who was exactly the same as Bonzo in terms of style, sound and feel, it would never have been the same band again. Zeppelin was a unit. A machine of working parts. Even if the bulk of the machine remained the same (Robert, John, and Jimmy), adding a new drummer into the mix would've resulted in a different band. So many rock bands have replaced members and continued on, but they've never been quite the same group. Look at the Stones after Brian Jones and Mick Taylor. Or The Who after Keith Moon. Or Pink Floyd after Syd Barrett. These bands all made great music afterward, but for all intents and purposes they were a different band.

Zeppelin could easily have continued on and made awesome, timeless music in the 80s, 90s and onward, but it'd have never been the same. As Page & Plant's 90s stuff showed, you need all 4 guys to make a Led Zeppelin record.

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John Paul Jones at 13:00 of the clip below..."We knew immediately that was the end of Zeppelin..."

 

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This reminds me of Eric Clapton's thoughts when Hendrix died. His first reaction was "You c___. ". As in, how could you do that, you selfish bastard?

Obviously when someone dies it is shattering, but for a band, there is always that small, just for a moment, thought when it comes up: So and so has fucked it up for the rest of us. What do we do now. And of course the shame of even thinking that is so disgusting to one's self, but I would think it crossed their minds for about half a second. And only half a second.

Musicians are by nature somewhat self absorbed people. It would be an awfully conflicting time. Most people would not like to acknowledge or admit that about themselves, but it happens.

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On 2/12/2017 at 4:34 PM, Tremelo said:

Hasn't Robert stated that he thought Zeppelin had become dinosaurs around the time of Graffiti/Presence? Seems he was probably struggling his last few years with the band. I bet he probably enjoyed making In Through the Out Door . It points to his solo career.

I have never heard him say that in fact he said physical graffiti was their best work.

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On 3/4/2017 at 10:23 AM, SteveAJones said:

John Paul Jones at 13:00 of the clip below..."We knew immediately that was the end of Zeppelin..."

 

Who was the interviewer on this video?

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17 hours ago, Dane1968 said:

This reminds me of Eric Clapton's thoughts when Hendrix died. His first reaction was "You c___. ". As in, how could you do that, you selfish bastard?

Obviously when someone dies it is shattering, but for a band, there is always that small, just for a moment, thought when it comes up: So and so has fucked it up for the rest of us. What do we do now. And of course the shame of even thinking that is so disgusting to one's self, but I would think it crossed their minds for about half a second. And only half a second.

Musicians are by nature somewhat self absorbed people. It would be an awfully conflicting time. Most people would not like to acknowledge or admit that about themselves, but it happens.

It's quite plausible Hendrix death was accidental.

People are by nature somewhat self absorbed.

 

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Well to a certain extent most legendary musicians spend much time alone refining their skills, especially before they

got famous. EVH, Hendrix, Page, etc., may have been monsters on stage, but were quite shy otherwise. Some people

may think that rock guitarists are just like everyone else except they play guitar. But sure, anyone can be self absorbed.

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Let's put this into perspective.

You're in a band for 12 years with one of your best mates, this band has telekinetic insperableness onstage and off.

Your best mate dies. Will have you the will to go on without him?

 

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Absolutely not. There is the strong friendship, and ESP playing live among members. Then IMO Bonzo being possibly

the best rock musician ever, let alone best drummer.

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100% the right decision.  Classy move.  After the 02 show they should have reformed for a bit with Jason.  His son is the right person, the only person, to take his Dads spot.

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I think Hendrix's death was anything but accidental. And I did not mean he did himself in. "Apparently" his lungs had a litre of red wine in them, therefore he unofficially drowned. It is pretty much impossible to breathe in that much liquid without coughing it back up. At the worst you would suffocate by not being able to breathe. Clapton's reaction was that he was immediately pissed off at losing a talent as such, then thinking of himself as a selfish bastard for thinking as he did. Sorry I was not clear.

It is a fairly common selfish reaction when you lose a loved one, that you immediately think of what you yourself have lost, and not of the deceased person having lost any possible future. People are not always as selfless as society would have us try to believe. I don't see that a a deliberate fault, but a natural involuntary human reaction. Then you would of course forget about yourself and think oh no, he could have had such a great life, and his family... About the worst thing ever for anyone to experience.

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18 hours ago, JeffLZ said:

100% the right decision.  Classy move.  After the 02 show they should have reformed for a bit with Jason.  His son is the right person, the only person, to take his Dads spot.

His son doesn't have the same talent as the father.

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Some know this, some don't. When Zep was inches away from a worldwide tour in ( 91' ?) almost positive Plant wanted

Scott Gorham from Faith No More as drummer. Plant actually said at one point of Jason( around that time) "He's not that

good". Gorham was no Bonzo but was a first rate very versatile drummer. Not trying to knock Jason, but at that

almost reunion tour , judging a bit from the Outrider tour with Jimmy, Jason occasionally played near his father's

level, but overall maybe just above average at most. He also may have been a liability due to the drug/ alcohol

problems he had. Possible spelling mistake, Gorham, or Gorman ??

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8 hours ago, Dane1968 said:

I think Hendrix's death was anything but accidental. And I did not mean he did himself in. "Apparently" his lungs had a litre of red wine in them, therefore he unofficially drowned. It is pretty much impossible to breathe in that much liquid without coughing it back up. At the worst you would suffocate by not being able to breathe. Clapton's reaction was that he was immediately pissed off at losing a talent as such, then thinking of himself as a selfish bastard for thinking as he did. Sorry I was not clear.

It is a fairly common selfish reaction when you lose a loved one, that you immediately think of what you yourself have lost, and not of the deceased person having lost any possible future. People are not always as selfless as society would have us try to believe. I don't see that a a deliberate fault, but a natural involuntary human reaction. Then you would of course forget about yourself and think oh no, he could have had such a great life, and his family... About the worst thing ever for anyone to experience.

I agree wholeheartedly with this, the evidence has always pointed toward foul play in the death of Hendrix.

Regarding Bonzo's death, the only logical course was to call it a day, and I would mean that even if it had happened in 73'.

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33 minutes ago, Mithril46 said:

Some know this, some don't. When Zep was inches away from a worldwide tour in ( 91' ?) almost positive Plant wanted

Scott Gorham from Faith No More as drummer. Plant actually said at one point of Jason( around that time) "He's not that

good". Gorham was no Bonzo but was a first rate very versatile drummer. Not trying to knock Jason, but at that

almost reunion tour , judging a bit from the Outrider tour with Jimmy, Jason occasionally played near his father's

level, but overall maybe just above average at most. He also may have been a liability due to the drug/ alcohol

problems he had. Possible spelling mistake, Gorham, or Gorman ??

I have never heard anything along those lines. Zep touring in 91' or any other time post 80' I never heard. Even after the O2 gig when expectations were high Plant nixed that pretty much ASAP. Where did you hear this?

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Mithril46 said:

Some know this, some don't. When Zep was inches away from a worldwide tour in ( 91' ?) almost positive Plant wanted

Scott Gorham from Faith No More as drummer. Plant actually said at one point of Jason( around that time) "He's not that

good". Gorham was no Bonzo but was a first rate very versatile drummer. Not trying to knock Jason, but at that

almost reunion tour , judging a bit from the Outrider tour with Jimmy, Jason occasionally played near his father's

level, but overall maybe just above average at most. He also may have been a liability due to the drug/ alcohol

problems he had. Possible spelling mistake, Gorham, or Gorman ??

Did you mean Mike Bordin?

Edited by BledZabbath

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Could be Mike Bordin, sorry bad with names. Many Zep books nowadays mention that Robert pulled out of a Zep

World tour(not with Jason) literally at the last minutr in 90' or 91'. Much of the details of the tour supposedly were

already done, Robert agreed at first. Probably would have gone very well, Jimmy was in excellent playing shape.

In the end however it was IMO the right move, Robert didn't want the legacy tarnished. P/P in 95' couldn't really

be called a reunion because no Jonesy and the vast reworkings of ? 10-12 Zep songs. Robert grew wary in 98'

despite Page's spectacular return to amazing playing. Robert saw that the set list kept dropping WIC songs, and the

show was becoming basically Zep without Jonesy or Bonzo. So he quit with some tour dates remaining. Don't blame him.

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7 hours ago, BledZabbath said:

His son doesn't have the same talent as the father.

I never said he did but he does a more than adequate job, in fact, he did really well.  He's gotten better over the years.  It's more that it is Bonzos son.  Period.   If you don't understand that than you must not have children.

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1 hour ago, Mithril46 said:

Could be Mike Bordin, sorry bad with names. Many Zep books nowadays mention that Robert pulled out of a Zep

World tour(not with Jason) literally at the last minutr in 90' or 91'. Much of the details of the tour supposedly were

already done, Robert agreed at first. Probably would have gone very well, Jimmy was in excellent playing shape.

In the end however it was IMO the right move, Robert didn't want the legacy tarnished. P/P in 95' couldn't really

be called a reunion because no Jonesy and the vast reworkings of ? 10-12 Zep songs. Robert grew wary in 98'

despite Page's spectacular return to amazing playing. Robert saw that the set list kept dropping WIC songs, and the

show was becoming basically Zep without Jonesy or Bonzo. So he quit with some tour dates remaining. Don't blame him.

Source of the almost touring in 91 comment?

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Source: pg.433 " Led Zeppelin: When Giants Walked The Earth". Author Mick Wall. Other Zep books mention this as well, the Wall book puts the reunion more on quicksand, others say the tour was almost out of the gate, etc. Doubtful numerous books made this up.

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