Flares Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Is it just me, or does the bass Jonesy used from 1977 onwards sounds crap. It has none of the warm bottom end that his Fender Jazz? provided on previous tours. Which for a four piece was vital to fill out the sound. I just hate that sort of twangy percussive sound it makes on songs like Sick Again and The Song Remains the Same. It sounds like he's playing in a trashy low-fi punk band or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathington Willoughby Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Yea I agree, weird that he would choose the Alembics when his Fender had some of the best tone ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingzoso Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Is it just me, or does the bass Jonesy used from 1977 onwards sounds crap. It has none of the warm bottom end that his Fender Jazz? provided on previous tours. Which for a four piece was vital to fill out the sound. I just hate that sort of twangy percussive sound it makes on songs like Sick Again and The Song Remains the Same. It sounds like he's playing in a trashy low-fi punk band or something.In My opinion, John Paul Jones was the most consistent and professional member of Led Zeppelin. I have listened to hundreds of Led Zeppelin bootlegs from Spokane to Berlin. All I hear is Jonesy at his best. From the very beginning to the very end and all those hundreds of shows in between.My point is: from 1977 onwards, every instrument that JPJ touches and plays sounds like a Man that knew what he was doing and a man that played with absolute confidence and professionalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matjaz1 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Yes, the Fender has more warmth and is more round and full! And the Alembic at times almost sounded like a bass drum! But Jonesy was still excellent with it and still he played pedals in for example Ten years gone and that song in particular needs a warm and round bass sound! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flares Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 I'm not doubting Joney's ability - he was always the consummate professional, both in the studio and live. The cement that held the band together. But are you telling me that the 1980 tour versions of Kashmir sounded better when he played his Fairlight synth, than the rich full tone of the mellotron, pre-1980? He ditched the mellotron for reliability issues, not because he didn't like the sound. And that Alembic bass was way too twangy. You cant beat a Fender Jazz for tone and warmth. It also coincides with Bonzo moving to a metallic-kit which gave the whole thing a far more abrasive and punkier sound. I preferred the pre-1977 setup for both drums and bass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I agree that JPJ's Alembic bass tone from '77 onwards left something to be desired- especially when compared to that warm, full Fender Jazz tone he'd used to that point. Sometimes the Alembic seems too overpowering...Page's concerns about that were definitely warranted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckman Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I grew up in the mid and late seventies. When I was 12 or 13 I fell in love with the electric bass as an instrument. Around 1976 a lot of pro and semi pro bassists got fed up with Fender basses. Several new instrument builders came up with new tones and looks: Alembic was the leader. John Entwistle, Stanley Clarke, Jonesy ...they all were very keen to produce a more distinctive and articulate tone. It's hard to imagine this from a 21th century perspective, but the truth is that a lot of CBS Fenders were suffering from a pretty lousy QC in the seventies. You could pick up used Jazzes an Preci's for fifty USD. So I guess during that following decade a bassist prefered Wals, MM Stingrays, Alembics, Kramers, BC RIch, Spectors, Steinbergers, Status,...until the Revenge of Fender in the late nineties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Hermit Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 You can definitely hear the change from 1977 onward when he moved to the Alembic from the Fender, and opinion is divided which one suited the Zep live sound more... but whatever your feelings on the move, all is forgiven when you listen to the freak-out jam session on 'Whole Lotta Love' circa Berlin, July 7th, 1980... WOW!!! Jonesy is an absolute demon on that one, playing bass like Page plays guitar, hail to the king, who loves ya baby... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstork Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 You can definitely hear the change from 1977 onward when he moved to the Alembic from the Fender, and opinion is divided which one suited the Zep live sound more... but whatever your feelings on the move, all is forgiven when you listen to the freak-out jam session on 'Whole Lotta Love' circa Berlin, July 7th, 1980... WOW!!! Jonesy is an absolute demon on that one, playing bass like Page plays guitar, hail to the king, who loves ya baby... Just listened to Berlin '80 WLL, boy are you right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IpMan Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Too bad there is no pro recorded 77'-80' stuff to hear exactly what the alembics sounded like in a live setting correctly. I have heard people say on this forum that they sounded totally different in person vs. the bootleg recordings. If this is true that could make all the difference in the world. So, if anyone who went to one or more of these shows and can remember...what did YOU think of the live sound of the alembics? Even though I did see them in Chicago, April 10th 1977 show I was only 9 years old and do not remember much beyond the overall sound and the show in general. Oh, and how amazing everyone was. Funny tid bit of info...the only song I missed was TYG because my cousin did not like the song, that is when we took out bathroom break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckman Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Well...the Knebby August 4th stuff on DVD was recorded on multitrack. So that should help you to get a (pretty) decent idea of the soundscape of the Becvar 8 string and Alembic Omega. By all accounts the sound of his post 76 gear was a giant leap compared to the Acoustic amps/ Fender Jazz Combo. And this is by no means a nod down to the more vintage set up of the the pre 76 Jonesy. I dig them anytime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixpense Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Is it just me, or does the bass Jonesy used from 1977 onwards sounds crap. It has none of the warm bottom end that his Fender Jazz? provided on previous tours. Which for a four piece was vital to fill out the sound. I just hate that sort of twangy percussive sound it makes on songs like Sick Again and The Song Remains the Same. It sounds like he's playing in a trashy low-fi punk band or something. I disagree. He started using Alembic basses (4 and 8 string) around this time and it added to the sound. The use of the 8-string bass filled in a lot of the empty space especially on Achilles where Jimmy is soloing quite a bit. Also, his sound did vary quite a bit. If you listen to ITTOD, his bass sound is quite different from live. I also saw a youtube interview with Jones and (on the Zooma tour at least) he has each of his two bass pickups going through different amps providing a full bass sound. If you listen to the studio track Black Dog, Jones is using the Fender Telecaster bass and that sound has the treble full up. While Levee has the Fender Jazz bass with a slightly warmer sound. A very talented musician, I say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmtomh Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 JPJ was without a doubt the most versatile musician in Zep. Page had better instincts for riffs and song-construction overall, but Jones was essential in helping bring Page's ideas to life in the form of complete songs, orchestration, fleshing things out, and so on. As for the bass, the alembic undeniably sounds like absolute sh*t on the bootleg soundboard recordings, and on some of the bootleg audience recordings. However, on the official live stuff like Knebworth, it sounds quite good. It definitely has a more distinct, precise sound - but based on what I've heard, it needs some massaging during the mastering phase to sound good on record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flares Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 It definitely sounds better in the '79 dates and on the Tour over Europe, than in 1977. So maybe he tweaked the setup, or it's the way the soundboards made it sound in '77. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John M Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 I sometimes wonder if Jones switched to the Alembic in 1977 because he knew he would need to carry even more weight than usual when Jimmy got "erratic". The Alembic cuts through to provide even more guidance to Jimmy when he needed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 On 8/30/2015 at 11:17 AM, IpMan said: Too bad there is no pro recorded 77'-80' stuff to hear exactly what the alembics sounded like in a live setting correctly. I have heard people say on this forum that they sounded totally different in person vs. the bootleg recordings. If this is true that could make all the difference in the world. So, if anyone who went to one or more of these shows and can remember...what did YOU think of the live sound of the alembics? Even though I did see them in Chicago, April 10th 1977 show I was only 9 years old and do not remember much beyond the overall sound and the show in general. Oh, and how amazing everyone was. Funny tid bit of info...the only song I missed was TYG because my cousin did not like the song, that is when we took out bathroom break. You MISSED "Ten Years Gone"!!! ? WTF! Why am I only just finding out about this now, IpMan? That was one of the highlights of the '77 tour...tell your cousin to go to the bathroom by himself! And yes, I am one of those who have blathered on about the difference in sound Jonesey's Alembics made in person versus hearing them on tape...particularly the shitty '77 soundboards. But I still liked the Fenders better...both the Jazzmaster and the fretless he used for "In My Time of Dying". Oh, and that killer Telecaster wood bass he used in '75 too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IpMan Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 9 hours ago, Strider said: You MISSED "Ten Years Gone"!!! ? WTF! Why am I only just finding out about this now, IpMan? That was one of the highlights of the '77 tour...tell your cousin to go to the bathroom by himself! And yes, I am one of those who have blathered on about the difference in sound Jonesey's Alembics made in person versus hearing them on tape...particularly the shitty '77 soundboards. But I still liked the Fenders better...both the Jazzmaster and the fretless he used for "In My Time of Dying". Oh, and that killer Telecaster wood bass he used in '75 too! I probably should have however at 9, I was also small for my age. I likely would have been picked up and rolled into a semi-largish joint. Have you ever heard the version of TYG from the 9th? It is actually really good except for when Page drops out right before the first solo. He is absent for the whole solo and Jones is just doing the acoustic. Jimi comes back in and picks up right where the solo ended like nothing happened. They finished the song and Jimmy played a very nice second solo and closing solo. Yes, I prefer the warmth of the Fenders and LOVE the fretless bass. Jonesy going all Jaco Pastorious during IMTOD is some of his finest work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebeldhipi Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 I actually like his Alembic bass sound alot. Different sounds for different songs, i think that Dazed and Confused with the alembic woulndnt sound as good as with the a fender. Vise versa with Achilles. Overall songs like Sick Again, and Over The Top that nasty alembic sound works really well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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