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19 posts in this topic

On the box set versions of Coda the bonus content of the 1990 - 1993 box sets (I've the Japanese LP replica set) were included including the 27 June '69 BBC take of White Summer / Black Mountain Side. However for the expanded version of Coda this track has not been included. Plenty of room, heaven knows (sic). Just wondered if anyone knew why not. If the topic has already been addressed or answered I would be grateful for the link.

Thanks.

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Don't know if this issue has been tackled here, but my assumption is that Jimmy avoided 'real' live in concert tracks on CODA. We're gonna Groove and I Can't Quit You were included in their studio/rehearsal disguise, rather than their true raw Albert Hall LIVE incarnation . 

If for  one reason or another James Patrick would decide on future live remaster projects (TSRTS, HTWWW, BBC...or -heaven forbids- Japan 1971 & Earl's Court!), nobody can accuse him of cashing in twice on the same stuff.

 

B)

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I too am at a loss to understand why Jimmy deemed it fit for inclusion on Coda  in 1993 but not in 2015, it's got nothing to do with being live as 'Traveling Riverside Blues' was also a live BBC session recording and that was included.

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I too am at a loss to understand why Jimmy deemed it fit for inclusion on Coda  in 1993 but not in 2015, it's got nothing to do with being live as 'Traveling Riverside Blues' was also a live BBC session recording and that was included.

Yep, it was a live session but not in front of an audience. Subtle difference. 

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Completists still have to buy the 1990 box set to get everything, as this is also the only way to get the Moby Dick/Bonzo's Montreux mash-up. Also missing from the latest reissues is a remastered version of the shorter WLL (Edit) released as a single in 1997, if we're being pedantic.

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Yep, it was a live session but not in front of an audience. Subtle difference. 

Ah gotcha, well if that is/was one of the remits for inclusion/exclusion, then one has to wonder why exactly he included it in the first place in '93...

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Speaking of pedantic are there any other versions of Nobody's Fault But Mine (oh the irony) which have the extra 4bars of intro then the first box set?

 

Thanks for the answers on the Coda query. While (kind of) logical it still seems... not right. Probably not as bad as the foul up made on DW 2 (Soundtracks version, not sure about the vinyl or other CD issue. The missing Big Band Sax And Violence - which he made especial effort in the booklet to say it was being emphasized. Then left it off....

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The extra bars in the intro to NFBM were included on the 1990 box set. However this set also introduced some fresh unwelcome edits such as the studio background chatter and guitar tuning being deleted from the beginning of Tangerine, as well as the tape noise at the start of Immigrant Song being cut.

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I wish Jimmy had stuck with the original 1976 album mix of 'Nobody's Fault But Mine' instead of using the 1990 mix, it's really a nitpick but the song simply doesn't need that extra four lines at the beginning, it really doesn't.  Plus the early fade on 'Hey, Hey, What Can I Do' on the deluxe Coda  was really rather unfortunate indeed... and both are regrettable because everything else, sound-wise, is simply superlative on these new releases.

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I wish Jimmy had stuck with the original 1976 album mix of 'Nobody's Fault But Mine' instead of using the 1990 mix, it's really a nitpick but the song simply doesn't need that extra four lines at the beginning, it really doesn't.  Plus the early fade on 'Hey, Hey, What Can I Do' on the deluxe Coda  was really rather unfortunate indeed... and both are regrettable because everything else, sound-wise, is simply superlative on these new releases.

Indeed, the remastered HHWCID sounds amazing. 

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Plus the early fade on 'Hey, Hey, What Can I Do' on the deluxe Coda  was really rather unfortunate indeed... and both are regrettable because everything else, sound-wise, is simply superlative on these new releases.

How interesting... It had hitherto escaped my attention but you are quite correct that it appears that approximately 3s worth of HHWCID has disappeared between 1990 and 2015. The original length of 3:55 has become a mere 3:52. I wonder why?

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The extra bars in the intro to NFBM were included on the 1990 box set. However this set also introduced some fresh unwelcome edits such as the studio background chatter and guitar tuning being deleted from the beginning of Tangerine, as well as the tape noise at the start of Immigrant Song being cut.

I forgot to mention that the 1990 box also sliced at least 20s from You're Time Is Gonna Come, for reasons unknown (another 20s could have been left in without reaching the fade into Black Mountain Side used on LZ1). But we digress...

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I think it would would have totally messed up the flow and desired impact on the latest release of coda. With the box set in 90, everyone was wanting travelling riverside blues on cd, but to have white summer too was like extra, or something many might not have expected. It is an important song in regards to live led zeppelin, but i feel it got lost on the 1990 box set.

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I have been wondering the same thing regarding why some tracks were included and some were not.  But, I think I have figured out at least some of the reasons.  

My thought process began with why the combined drum solo edit, Moby Dick/Bonzo's Montreux was not included on the Coda companion discs.  I believe the reason was twofold:  (1)  It was a created track from 2 previously issued tracks, and the creation was done in 1990, long after the band's recording career ended, so it would not fit from an artistic point of view.  (2)  It would have been a sound quality mismatch.  Yes, the remastering technology used in 1990 was state-of-the-art at the time, but it was still primitive compared to what exists today.  Such remastering differences would be detectable to the trained ear.  Also, there is no original analog version of this track that Jimmy Page could remaster over and over again; it was created from the 1990 remasters of the 2 foundation tracks, so the 1990 remaster is the only version of this track that exists.  Page would have to create it all over again in order to achieve a perfect sound quality match.

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This got me to thinking just how could this track be brought forward in the 2015 version of the Led Zeppelin catalog?  Since this track cannot be included on a core catalog release, then it would have to be reissued away from the core catalog on a release that does not necessarily have to live up to the same quality control standards.  But, the problem would be, what else would be on such a release?  This track could not be reissued all by itself!  The thing about this track is that it is from a previous version of the LZ catalog.  Are there any other worthy releases or tracks that at one time were the standard versions which have been left behind by Page in his ongoing zeal to improve the catalog?  Is Page leaving a trail behind?  Yes, he is, and I have figured out just what tracks should go with this 1990 track, if you take the "No worthwhile tracks or releases left behind" approach.

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First, let's look at the first version of the catalog, 1969-1989.  This would include all of the LP's, 8-tracks, cassettes, and singles released during that time period.  It would also include the very first CD's mastered by Barry Diament of Atlantic Records and issued in the late 1980's.  All we had were the 9 studio albums, the first version of the soundtrack of The Song Remains The Same, and the 10 singles.  All of this has been brought forward, or has it?  3 of the singles, Good Times Bad Times/Communication Breakdown, Whole Lotta Love/Living Loving Maid, and Rock And Roll/Four sticks were in mono, but all they were was folddowns of the stereo versions.  The 2 stereo channels were simply combined into one mono signal; they were not separate mono mixes.  6 of the other 7 were simply duplications of the stereo LP versions, nothing special there, either.  Only one really stood out, and that was Immigrant Song/Hey Hey What Can I Do, because it was the original release of the B-side.  This is the only single which might even have mild interest these days because of that.  If you want to hear Hey Hey What Can I Do's original release, it would have to be the Immigrant Song single.  This was the only original release from that era to not be brought forward in its original form.  So, 2 of the tracks on such a proposed release would have to be both sides of this single, and, regarding HHWCID, it would not have any early fadeout, as it appears on the Japanese single and on The New Age Of Atlantic, so Jimmy Page's acoustic guitar tag would be heard in its entirety.

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Now let's look at the second version of the catalog, which began with the 1990 remaster project, and includes the box sets and other compilations, the issue of the 1990 Remastered versions of the studio albums, The BBC Sessions,  and the complete overhaul of the video and audio releases of The Song Remains The Same.  Since most of us prefer full-length versions over short edits, I will not propose including those.  So, in light of that, there were some new tracks which appeared on the 4-CD box set:  Travelling Riverside Blues, White Summer/Black Mountain Side, Moby Dick/Bonzo's Montreux, and the unedited master of Nobody's Fault But Mine, with an extra intro riff.  HHWCID was also included.  The unedited version of NFBM is now the way the song appears on the 2015 Presence CD.  And, with the upcoming reissue of the BBC Sessions, both TRB and WS/BMS will be brought forward, and in their proper place.  

But, When Page redid The Song Remains The Same, he left behind 2 more tracks.  Now, don't get me wrong here.  I actually prefer the newer versions of both the CD and the DVD.  For 31 years, there were some discrepancies between the movie and the soundtrack, and Page did a wonderful job in finally getting both right.  The video and audio releases are now in perfect synch.  The DVD has the extra songs as bonus material, and the 2-CD's really show what a Led Zeppelin concert was like back then because Page put all the songs in the order they were played at that Madison Square Garden concert.  But, if this had a downside, it would be the 2 tracks that were left behind, which used to be the standard versions of those 2 songs.  First of all, there was No Quarter.  The original LP version contained a different ending to the instrumental break, and Whole Lotta Love's original LP version was unedited.  The first instrumental break in WLL was longer on the original LP, and contained two lines from The Crunge:  "I'm just trying to find the bridge," and "Has anybody seen the bridge?"  These were editied out of the movie version.  

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So, what we would have, if we followed my suggestion, is a 5-track EP.  It would be sequenced as follows:  (1)  Immigrant Song  (2)  Hey Hey What Can I Do  (3)  No Quarter, original live LP version  (4)  Whole Lotta Love, original live LP version  (5)  Moby Dick/Bonzo's Montreux.  

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The version of NBFBM is not an unedited master. It's been extended. If I recall correctly HHWCID was originally remastered from vinyl as the tapes were lost and the fade out was there to disguise some crackle and fizz at the end.

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