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John Bonham vs Karen Carpenter


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11 minutes ago, Strider said:

Here you go Kiwi...

 

 

Being a jazz fan myself, I am thoroughly enjoying the clips that you posted, Strider! :thumbsup: Thank you for that! :D 

The lady had real talent. And like you and a few others very rightly pointed out, her drumming style is very jazz oriented. Hence, one can safely conclude that polls like these are silly. You are essentially comparing a hard rock and blues oriented drummer with a jazz oriented drummer. It just doesn't make any sense! :wacko: 

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2 hours ago, Strider said:

 Sheesh. They are both dead. Let it rest. I am sure Bonham was only taking the piss when he made those comments about the 1975 Playboy music poll. I doubt he took it serious...he probably found the results as goofy and hilarious as the rest of us. The whole thing reeked of a frat stunt...a bunch of guys saying "Wouldn't it be funny if Karen Carpenter won best drummer?" and flooding the Playboy offices with ballots.

That said, Karen Carpenter was no joke...she had some skills.

The Playboy Jazz & Pop poll began in 1957. Playboy's main interest and focus was on jazz...Hugh Hefner was, and still is, a huge supporter of jazz. The Playboy Jazz Festival has been around for ages and Hugh donates money to restoring old jazz films.

It was only as more baby boomers became readers in the 1960s and 1970s that Playboy granted more space and respect to rock and roll. But jazz was still the main love of its staff and most of their readers. So take the results with a grain of salt.

I don't think Playboy even does a music poll anymore, so it seems they realized their polls were useless after all.

Why let it rest? Somebody asked if it was true that she placed ahead of JB and she had.

I think this thread is pretty interesting. 

I never even thought of a frat prank. But I did hear of this when it was happening at 12-13 years old and would have fought to the death to defend the honor of Zeppelin back then.  But even then, I felt "why is he mad? That's kind of ridiculous".  

Taking the piss is another angle I didn't think of. I think Bonzo was pissed off, but again this thread suggested another possibility. 

. I was half kidding with the horny playboy readers voting for the cute girl over the thundering Bonham Moon Baker legends remark.. That opened up a discussion on morality and whatever else.. Good stuff and more interesting than some other discussions going on here.

(My favorite Jimmy hairstyle is 1973 BTW. I like the silver ponytail too.. Gutsy call by Page that Mr. Beck should consider.)

The clips you posted are great and eye opening. She is obviously very thin and probably in the middle of her condition, and still playing quite well. Nothing earth shattering, but fun creative, good drumming.

But absolutely 2 important contributors to the greatest decade of music.. The 70's.. and Rest In Peace to both.. 

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14 hours ago, the chase said:

Why let it rest? Somebody asked if it was true that she placed ahead of JB and she had.

I think this thread is pretty interesting. 

I never even thought of a frat prank. But I did hear of this when it was happening at 12-13 years old and would have fought to the death to defend the honor of Zeppelin back then.  But even then, I felt "why is he mad? That's kind of ridiculous".  

Taking the piss is another angle I didn't think of. I think Bonzo was pissed off, but again this thread suggested another possibility. 

. I was half kidding with the horny playboy readers voting for the cute girl over the thundering Bonham Moon Baker legends remark.. That opened up a discussion on morality and whatever else.. Good stuff and more interesting than some other discussions going on here.

(My favorite Jimmy hairstyle is 1973 BTW. I like the silver ponytail too.. Gutsy call by Page that Mr. Beck should consider.)

The clips you posted are great and eye opening. She is obviously very thin and probably in the middle of her condition, and still playing quite well. Nothing earth shattering, but fun creative, good drumming.

But absolutely 2 important contributors to the greatest decade of music.. The 70's.. and Rest In Peace to both.. 

By "let it rest" I meant the trashing of Karen Carpenter. 

I love a lively discussion as much as anyone. But all too often it seems some people cannot celebrate Led Zeppelin without trashing others. If anyone dares suggest they like someone else ahead of Led Zeppelin, then it's bazookas out.

I love Jimmy Page. But I don't need to denigrate Jimi Hendrix, Keith Richards, Rory Gallagher, Pete Townshend, or even Randy California, when making my case for why I love Jimmy Page. I can like other musicians and bands even though Led Zeppelin will always be #1 in my heart.

I knew when I saw this topic thread that there would be piling on poor dead Karen. And for what? What did she do? She didn't have anything to do with the poll. She never claimed to be better than Bonham.

You saw it with the Spirit lawsuit. Poor Randy California is six-feet under, minding his business and because some knuckleheads decide to bring a stupid lawsuit against Led Zeppelin, people start heaping abuse on Randy and the band. Randy had nothing to do with it...he's dead. I bet most of those people never truly listened to any of the early Spirit albums. Blame Skidmore and the hack lawyers. But Randy was a good guitar player and Spirit was an all right band. You can support Led Zeppelin without trashing Randy California.

Besides, there are plenty of worthy living targets to trash without going after harmless dead people.

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3 hours ago, Strider said:

By "let it rest" I meant the trashing of Karen Carpenter. 

I love a lively discussion as much as anyone. But all too often it seems some people cannot celebrate Led Zeppelin without trashing others. If anyone dares suggest they like someone else ahead of Led Zeppelin, then it's bazookas out.

I love Jimmy Page. But I don't need to denigrate Jimi Hendrix, Keith Richards, Rory Gallagher, Pete Townshend, or even Randy California, when making my case for why I love Jimmy Page. I can like other musicians and bands even though Led Zeppelin will always be #1 in my heart.

I knew when I saw this topic thread that there would be piling on poor dead Karen. And for what? What did she do? She didn't have anything to do with the poll. She never claimed to be better than Bonham.

You saw it with the Spirit lawsuit. Poor Randy California is six-feet under, minding his business and because some knuckleheads decide to bring a stupid lawsuit against Led Zeppelin, people start heaping abuse on Randy and the band. Randy had nothing to do with it...he's dead. I bet most of those people never truly listened to any of the early Spirit albums. Blame Skidmore and the hack lawyers. But Randy was a good guitar player and Spirit was an all right band. You can support Led Zeppelin without trashing Randy California.

Besides, there are plenty of worthy living targets to trash without going after harmless dead people.

Very cool. Sorry Strider, I obviously misunderstood your post. Couldn't agree more..

I also hate seeing Randy California getting trashed. Poor guy drowned saving his son and his reputation is tarnished and is catching shit for a lawsuit he had nothing to do with.

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What would have been both hilarious and amazing is if Bonham embraced the poll, called Karen, and had her sit in on a pre-rehearsed Moby Dick with the two of them trading licks. It would have been a great way to end the LA run in March and Zep would have gotten some cross over cred, and Bonzo would have come away looking like the most chill and open drummer in history.

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With over 40 years of hindsight re. Bonzo vs Karen...my gut tells me, from the many things that have been written about him in the many years since his death, that he was indeed a sensitive individual whose burly appearance and sometimes bad behavior were possibly a mask in some way.  

My guess is Bonham was indeed hurt by the poll, he was an artist after all, and proud of what he did.  As some have pointed out, quite accurately imo, Karen Carpenter was also an excellent drummer, she just wasn't the same type of drummer as Bonham, and who was?

I agree with Bonham that she could not have well handled a Led Zeppelin song.  But that doesn't mean that she wasn't a good drummer.

The band were apparently needling him about it, and my further guess is that he probably didn't care for that, either.

Sadly, in the end, they both died far too young.  May they both rest in peace.

 

 

 

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There was always a big cartoon of all the winners, it would've been cool if Bonzo won just to see the drawing of him. Next to Miles Davis and Lionel Hampton.

Someone should locate that K.C.  issue and post a scan of the drawing, that would be cool

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