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MortSahlFan

Little Things You Don't Like About Led Zeppelin?

176 posts in this topic

I prefer to talk about the music side of things, but if you want to go about someone's personality, cool... I'll respond to this later, I don't wanna put anything out and take what someone ELSE would say.

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Robert Plants hand waving on stage, all of Jimmy Page's stage moves. Wish the pair of them had just kept stock still, much cooler...

Edited by JTM

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My only complaint, though not a big one, is I wish they had a somewhat fluid setlist at live shows, 60% set and 40% change from night to night. I know most bands don't and play the same set night after night but...just a thought, and a moot one at that.

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I wish they would have had the 70-72 tours professionally filmed.

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White Summer. It may have been interesting circa 1969, but good grief it had no business being performed after 1973, if not 1970.

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2 hours ago, JTM said:

Robert Plants hand waving on stage, all of Jimmy Page's stage moves. Wish the pair of them had just kept stock still, much cooler...

really ? that's funny for me it's the exact opposite I love it and it's so much better, you can see they are having fun playing and for me that's wayyy cooler !

the little thing I don't like that much about Robert plant are his very sexual scream. I'm absolutely fine with it when I'm alone but I can't share some LZ song I like with my friends because of it :lol:

I understand it in WLL but It's very uncalled for at the end of Night Flight for example or in IMTOD at 10:27, sound way more on the sexual side than death side in my opinon.

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6 hours ago, Klape said:

really ? that's funny for me it's the exact opposite I love it and it's so much better, you can see they are having fun playing and for me that's wayyy cooler !

the little thing I don't like that much about Robert plant are his very sexual scream. I'm absolutely fine with it when I'm alone but I can't share some LZ song I like with my friends because of it :lol:

I understand it in WLL but It's very uncalled for at the end of Night Flight for example or in IMTOD at 10:27, sound way more on the sexual side than death side in my opinon.

Funny you mention that, I remember seeing TSRTS at a midnight movie in 83' when during SIBLY there is that part where old Robert moans three times in a somewhat lazy manner while standing on his tiptoes and gesturing with his left hand in a circular pattern. One of the gals I was with said, "Jesus Christ, he looks like Harry Reams is giving it to him in the ass." 

Some of Plants live moves circa 73' in particular, were pretty damn feminine compared to both earlier and later tours. Plus that horrid blouse he wore in TSRTS coupled with some of his more effeminate movements...you could have placed that into some gay porn and not known the difference.

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6 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

White Summer. It may have been interesting circa 1969, but good grief it had no business being performed after 1973, if not 1970.

Good point, in fact why did Page drop BYA after only playing it a handful of times 1970? It is a beautiful tune and would have been a great replacement for WS/BMS plus, its much shorter.

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(1) I wish they would have done background vocals a little bit here and there

(2) It bothers me that when they were running on all cylinders that they sort of ignored massive patches of the people and focused on the big New York LA and so on type of gigs - making it an almost elite like gathering

 

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I was thinking about this today. robert plant was what turned me onto led zeppelin with LZI. subsequently, robert plant sort of turned me away from led zeppelins later years. he went from singing with angst and anger in his voice and then he sort of started getting a little too sexual and flamboyant with his singing later on. see 1:27 for an example. 

the early sexual suggestions were cool but when it became so blatant it just lost its meaning.

also, in the beginning, tight but loose is the best way too describe them, the music was loose but the group was tight. later on, for me it feels like they were four musicians playing individually at the same time rather than a group playing together if that makes sense. the band because loose.

its not necessarily a bad thing, the band was evolving to something more mature (yet immature at the same time) but the band sprouted into ten different directions rather than just one or two and I think they spread themselves a little too thin. they were a bad ass, angry band in the beginning and I relate to that much more than the later stuff (live anyways).

there is obviously the drug use and all but I dont really pay attention to that. robert plants voice started burning out and that is really the worst thing that happened to them musically imo.

early on their style was way better as well. they went from being casual, yet well dressed young men, to being characters 

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I'm going to take the plunge here. 

I wish Led Zeppelin had toned down the sexual overtones just a little bit, in some of their songs. I know that there are so many classic blues songs like Travelling Riverside Blues, that paved the way for such overtones with lyrics like Squeeze my lemon, till the juice runs down my leg. I know that songs like these served as an inspiration to Led Zeppelin. I do get the appeal of such songs. I do appreciate and love the sensual quality of such timeless classics and bluesmen like Robert Johnson and Charley Patton are some of my favourite bluesmen of all time. 

I also know that there are so many fans out there (like myself) for whom Led Zeppelin's appeal lies in their brilliant musicianship and their sensual and mysterious aura (especially on stage).

But nevertheless, I am choosing to address this because of a little incident that took place in 2014. I am also choosing to address this, given Zep's potential to churn out songs with such beautiful lyrics, such as The Battle of Evermore, Thank You, Stairway To Heaven, Achilles Last Stand, Carouselambra , etc. 

My dad is a huge fan of Led Zeppelin. His first and most favourite album is Led Zeppelin II. He has been a fan of the band for over 45 years now and he is the one who introduced me to their brilliant discography when I was 12 years old. I really got into the band when I was 16.

A few days after the Deluxe and the Super Deluxe versions of Led Zeppelin II had been released, my dad and I finally received our copy of the CD edition of the deluxe version. The CD that my dad had in his collection, dated back to the early 2000's (I don't know the exact date as my dad sold his CD copy, right after we had ordered the deluxe version). We were really eager to listen to the album together, to marvel at the new and improved sound of the album and of course, enjoy the second disc, packed with quite a few extras that any fan of the band would enjoy. Besides, it is always a wonderful opportunity to spend some quality father-daughter time! :) 

We were in my dad's study. The album was blasting out of the stereo's speakers. We were having the time of our lives, marveling at the beautiful remastering job that Jimmy had so painstakingly undertaken. It was as if he had given the album a new lease on life. It sounded clean, crisp, fresh and dynamic. Sort of like a brand new album! The Lemon Song came on and my dad and I were just lost in the album, enjoying the guitar riffs and everything and then it happened! Plant opened his mouth and sang in a soft and low tone:  Squeeze me baby, till the juice runs down my leg. The thing is I had known the words to The Lemon Song for quite sometime (I in fact, liked that song for its bold, daring and sensual vibe), but I had never listened to that song with my dad, before!!!! As Plant sang that line again, I honestly wished that the ground would just open up and swallow me up and spit me out after the song had concluded, just to escape the incredibly awkward mood in the room. I could tell that my dad was feeling pretty uncomfortable too! Before Plant could sing the line, The way you squeeze my lemon, I'm gonna fall right out of bed, I just ran out of the room, as fast as my legs could carry me, mumbling something about getting a drink of water! Phew! That was so awkward! 

To this day, there are certain songs that I have mentally made a note of, not to listen to, with my dad. These include The Lemon Song and of course, Queen's Get Down Make Love

Edited by Kiwi_Zep_Fan87

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I don't think the sexual overtones were major.

Meatloaf Bat Out Of Hell is a total masterpiece.  Nothing should be changed with that

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Kiwi Zep, I'm with you.  Can't listen to that Queen song to this day...too disturbing. And I can't really listen to Zep at work, with LZ's more *orgiastic* output randomly appearing when I least expect it on my tablet. 

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2 hours ago, Houses of the Holy said:

Kiwi Zep, I'm with you.  Can't listen to that Queen song to this day...too disturbing. And I can't really listen to Zep at work, with LZ's more *orgiastic* output randomly appearing when I least expect it on my tablet. 

Cheers, HOTH! :) 

I do have the guts to listen to Get Down Make Love, sometimes, when I am feeling particularly bold and adventureous! :lol: :ph34r:

I really do exercise caution though, while listening to music with someone or when in public, if at all strangers can actually hear the song, in question. This holds for any band / artist that I love. When I for example, babysit my cousin's daughter, I am doubly careful and I even have a very specific list of Zep songs that I play for her, if she wants to listen to Zep on that particular day. She is 5 years old and boy, does she ask a lot of questions about lyrics, instruments, etc. I really try to keep it clean, with zero awkward moments! Honestly, there is no telling what the little scamp will come out with, next! :wacko: 

Edited by Kiwi_Zep_Fan87

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I sometimes wish, their songs would lyricaly be more about everyday stories, personal experiences and more critical of the society, something Robert went in  a bit more latter.

Roberts voice did change and if he would keep changing his singing, it would be absolutely better not to loose it, but he never lost it completely and he kept finding new ways and his voice is still excellent really.

As far as fitting into society, I think they would better with the lyrics I mentioned above, but classical music is sort of epic too and they still had  love songs and they were virtuosos and it was a time of sexual revolution and sex is part of life and I don't think that theme is so predominant and he's a got a real good voice for that. Plus all those awards make them accepted these days and I'm happy for that.

I also love they tried all those musical genres, I think they did it really well mostly and they recorded a lot of it live even latter on.

As far as stage moves, only Robert's moves are a bit strange to me, but I think it was like more of a just a 73 thing and it's more easy to see it negatively, because the singing got worse, but it always still remained really good.

 

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23 hours ago, JTM said:

Robert Plants hand waving on stage, all of Jimmy Page's stage moves. Wish the pair of them had just kept stock still, much cooler...

I agree on Robert but Jimmy was the coolest on stage of anyone. A natural.  

My little thing I don't like is how uneven the lighting, photos and camera time were .. Roughly 50% Jimmy, 30% Robert 20% JPJ and JB. 

If there were 4 spotlights, 3 were on Jimmy 1 on Robert. None on the rhythm section. This improved from 77 on, but up to and especially 75 it is embarrassing.  Camera hogs... 

The Earls Court footage of IMTOD is so lopsided that they added Moby Dick shots of Bonzo to even it out a little (notice the tambourine on his high hat...) JPJ accidentally got in a few shots.. 

That's about it.

 

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9 hours ago, TheGreatOne said:

I don't think the sexual overtones were major.

 

Me neither. In 1975 Mick Jagger was riding a giant inflatable cock onstage, Iggy Pop was pulling his dick out of his pants regularly, and Bowie was looking like a hermaphrodite. And, Hendrix was fucking his guitar and amps long before this time. Zeppelin pales in comparison in the "overtly sexual department" IMO. Anyways, they all look timid compared to what goes on in todays mainstream commercial world of music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxtIRArhVD4

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The hypocrisy of Robert Plant berating the audience if they were too raucous or too quiet. If i recall "shut up - gabbling" and "we don't like people squeeking too much" Then he would say "you're too quiet, too boring" The audience can't live with them, can't live without them!

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I understand the heavy sexual angle, but that is part and parcel of Zep. Can you imagine the Grateful Dead with

no songs more than 4 minutes live ?? My main beef is all the songs they never played live. Some fans automatically

say, well you need 2 or 3 guitars, or keys and bass. In reality Zep could have probably played about 30-40% of all

their songs live. IMO it was mainly up to Jimmy, and despite his ambition, in other ways he could be very lazy. Like

in live Hot Dog, he never obviously worked on the solo properly, as you can't just play semi-blues over country

chord changes. I'm talking about Jimmy actually clashing with JPJ, not some totally obscure point.

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Well, they did play "Achilles Last Stand" which has 3 guitars at least.

I wish certain songs were played live, but the little annoyance is Plant's moaning...

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I like them warts and all........it's all the factors combined which makes the experience complete.

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1 hour ago, reswati said:

I like them warts and all........it's all the factors combined which makes the experience complete.

Yep!

 

As far as the sexuality of the performances, remember they  were on the heels of the sexual revolution of the 60's.  Society had kept sexuality under wraps for so long, until Elvis and many others tried to bring it to tv, etc.  Jim Morrison was forbidden to say lyrics to Light My Fire on tv because of the sexual imagery (even though he still did).  This was a different time and the music was pushing personal freedoms - sex included.  So, while I don't enjoy Robert's shrieks as much as his singing, I just chalk it up to the times and the limits being pushed.  

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My annoyances are;

No complete, unedited concerts. 

Like SteveA said, the continued playing of White Summer. It would have been fine as a minute long intro to Kashmir and that's about it.

All of My Love being released without the extended guitar solo. It should have at least been included on the deluxe version.

Lack of 5.1 mix included with box sets. 

The price of BBC box set. Higher than any of the previous box sets.

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Damn I'm an outcast with the majority of these answers.  I sense tomatoes being pelted at my
head. :tomato:

There is a time and place for everything.  I would not have enjoyed the band copying  the
image of ' 73 into their O2 show,  however male rock stars in the mid 1970s  incorporating
sexual overtones into a live performance??  I say it went with the territory.  The band went
outside the conservative box when it came to their stage presence.  Robert Plant wearing pants
that tell you what side he rests it on goes with what Zeppelin were selling and what the fans
were willing to buy into.  Plus they were writing amazing music on top of it.   They fact they
were confident  enough to peacock around in some rather feminine-esque  garb,  and be
wanted by the opposite sex is rather telling on what was taking place in that decade.  

As much as I love the flamboyant 73 - 77 side of the band,   I also like those very early days
too.  Jimmy's stage attire at the Bath Festival  with that fuzzy out of control beard,  hat and
coat reminds me of  Paddington Bear,:wub:   and love the poorly fitted ZoSo sweater that makes
you wonder if it was swiped off  a 5 year old kid. 

What I don't like?  12 years and there is very little video.  I blame Peter and his scare tactics
for that.  Oh and the '76 PEOPLE  magazine cover.  Plant is wearing a crocheted sweater
Grandma made last Christmas.  Bonzo is in his late 20s,  yet in that picture it screams middle
aged math teacher.  Jones is okay,  but his hair looks a bit like a wig you would see at a
renaissance fair - and the photographer has him positioned a bit awkward.  Lastly Jimmy.  Jimmy
reminds me of a villainous woman on soap opera in the 70s like Dallas,  Dynasty or Knots  Landing.  
If I squint and turn the lights down he reminds me a bit of Joan Collins.   There are  hundreds of
images of the band and this one doesn't do them justice.  By the way I love  Joan!



 

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30 minutes ago, KellyGirl said:

Damn I'm an outcast with the majority of these answers.  I sense tomatoes being pelted at my
head. :tomato:

There is a time and place for everything.  I would not have enjoyed the band copying  the
image of ' 73 into their O2 show,  however male rock stars in the mid 1970s  incorporating
sexual overtones into a live performance??  I say it went with the territory.  The band went
outside the conservative box when it came to their stage presence.  Robert Plant wearing pants
that tell you what side he rests it on goes with what Zeppelin were selling and what the fans
were willing to buy into.  Plus they were writing amazing music on top of it.   They fact they
were confident  enough to peacock around in some rather feminine-esque  garb,  and be
wanted by the opposite sex is rather telling on what was taking place in that decade.  

As much as I love the flamboyant 73 - 77 side of the band,   I also like those very early days
too.  Jimmy's stage attire at the Bath Festival  with that fuzzy out of control beard,  hat and
coat reminds me of  Paddington Bear,:wub:   and love the poorly fitted ZoSo sweater that makes
you wonder if it was swiped off  a 5 year old kid. 

What I don't like?  12 years and there is very little video.  I blame Peter and his scare tactics
for that.  Oh and the '76 PEOPLE  magazine cover.  Plant is wearing a crocheted sweater
Grandma made last Christmas.  Bonzo is in his late 20s,  yet in that picture it screams middle
aged math teacher.  Jones is okay,  but his hair looks a bit like a wig you would see at a
renaissance fair - and the photographer has him positioned a bit awkward.  Lastly Jimmy.  Jimmy
reminds me of a villainous woman on soap opera in the 70s like Dallas,  Dynasty or Knots  Landing.  
If I squint and turn the lights down he reminds me a bit of Joan Collins.   There are  hundreds of
images of the band and this one doesn't do them justice.  By the way I love  Joan!



 

no offense but the contrast in opinion is probably because you are not a guy :D.  I dont think many of the guys were too excited to see roberts pants back in those days.:lol:.  he was always a bit feminine from the early days and as a guy I can say, man did he pull it off but the later days was really more for the ladies than anything. that said it wasnt always extremely over the top but sometimes it could be distracting.

 

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