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achillestand

BBC sessions deluxe out September 16!!!!

159 posts in this topic

7 hours ago, pujols05 said:

I've been enjoying the DTS version of HTWWW this week, which prompts this question: If JP is doing a super deluxe of the BBC Sessions, dare we hope for a revisit to HTWWW with the Long Beach AND LA Forum shows in their entirety? 

Would be very groovy...but it's probably wishful thinking...

I have How The West Was Won as originally released on DVD audio. It sounds really good and I don't see Jimmy reworking this.  Also, he didn't include The Song Remains the Same in the recent reissues either. One could only hope he would go back to that original chronological live package that he talked about back in the seventies.

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5 hours ago, sixpense said:

I have How The West Was Won as originally released on DVD audio. It sounds really good and I don't see Jimmy reworking this.  Also, he didn't include The Song Remains the Same in the recent reissues either. One could only hope he would go back to that original chronological live package that he talked about back in the seventies.

I'm pretty sure that The Song Remains the Same and eventually HTWWW will enjoy the same  treatment as the BEEB Sessions. but as far as the original chronological live project goes, DVD covers almost everything Jimmy was mentioning during that interview (with the exception of the 'winning version of No Quarter at Earl's Court)

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10 hours ago, duckman said:

I'm pretty sure that The Song Remains the Same and eventually HTWWW will enjoy the same  treatment as the BEEB Sessions. but as far as the original chronological live project goes, DVD covers almost everything Jimmy was mentioning during that interview (with the exception of the 'winning version of No Quarter at Earl's Court)

I can't see The Song Remains The Same getting this deluxe box treatment. It's already been expanded and re-released on LP and cd, the movie has been upgraded to blu-ray. What would we get in a deluxe box that we don't already have? A photo book and download card? 

HTWWW, I could see that getting a deluxe box set. They could expand the song list and put it out on vinyl for the first time, along with the download card and photo album.

Whatever they do, I will accept with happiness and not gripe about what they haven't done.

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42 minutes ago, tyler19 said:

I can't see The Song Remains The Same getting this deluxe box treatment. It's already been expanded and re-released on LP and cd, the movie has been upgraded to blu-ray. What would we get in a deluxe box that we don't already have? A photo book and download card? 

That's how I see it, too. It was finally done right (as right as it could be) in 2007. 

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9 hours ago, tyler19 said:

I can't see The Song Remains The Same getting this deluxe box treatment. It's already been expanded and re-released on LP and cd, the movie has been upgraded to blu-ray. What would we get in a deluxe box that we don't already have? A photo book and download card? 

 

8 hours ago, pujols05 said:

That's how I see it, too. It was finally done right (as right as it could be) in 2007. 

:thanku:

People always seem to forget about that release, for some reason. 

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On 8/3/2016 at 1:10 PM, pujols05 said:

That's how I see it, too. It was finally done right (as right as it could be) in 2007. 

This is debatable, considering some of the horrible edits that appeared on the 2007 version.

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1 hour ago, Balthazor said:

This is debatable, considering some of the horrible edits that appeared on the 2007 version.

I get your point...but I would rather listen to the complete show as released in '07 than the partial show originally released in '76. 

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At the 4:23 mark of Communication Breakdown is Robert singing…  " strong shields and lore " 

Actually, it's upon listing to it again, he almost sounds like he sings the line prior to strong shields and lore . .kind of sounds like " Ooh yeah, brave I endure "

I apologize if this question has come up already.

Edited by zepscoda

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4 hours ago, pujols05 said:

I get your point...but I would rather listen to the complete show as released in '07 than the partial show originally released in '76. 

I know, it just burns me that the 2007 release could have been awesome, but was denied awesome by those strange and awful edits.

Now, if I were the cynical type, I'd suggest that maybe Page made those edits so that he could sell us a "fixed" version sometime down the road. :)

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17 hours ago, Balthazor said:

I know, it just burns me that the 2007 release could have been awesome, but was denied awesome by those strange and awful edits.

Now, if I were the cynical type, I'd suggest that maybe Page made those edits so that he could sell us a "fixed" version sometime down the road. :)

The contradiction I don't understand with Jimmy Page is that he treasures the legacy of Led Zeppelin (and rightfully he should), but the live releases of are edited. (BBC - Whole Lotta Love mid-section and The Song Remains The Same - No Quarter etc)

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20 minutes ago, sixpense said:

The contradiction I don't understand with Jimmy Page is that he treasures the legacy of Led Zeppelin (and rightfully he should), but the live releases of are edited. (BBC - Whole Lotta Love mid-section and The Song Remains The Same - No Quarter etc)

The Led Wallet in him not wanting to shell out to much money in royalties, if you have the complete BBC sessions bootleg why the gripe....

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What I would love to see if a re-release of all the live albums including the same treatment we have seen so far.. Include the missing songs from LA and some gems from Long Beach on a companion disc for HTWWW.. Include Thank You and some other gems from New York on a companion disc for TSRTS.. Release some gems from the rehearsals for the 02 on the companion disc for Celebration Day...

However, if he's not going to make new music in the near future, then he should work on an entirely new live release now to space releases of the other 3 live albums more as even 2019 is a bit too soon to remaster or re-release an album from 2012 (Celebration Day)

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On 8/6/2016 at 10:52 AM, JTM said:

The Led Wallet in him not wanting to shell out to much money in royalties, if you have the complete BBC sessions bootleg why the gripe....

Royalties are based on sales, airplay and/or performance, not based on how long or short a track is.

My comments were self explanatory. The contradiction is Page's protecting the Led Zeppelin Legacy vs. releasing edited material. He has no control over bootlegs but has control over official releases. 

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On 8/6/2016 at 3:52 PM, JTM said:

The Led Wallet in him not wanting to shell out too much money in royalties, if you have the complete BBC sessions bootleg why the gripe....

 

1 hour ago, sixpense said:

Royalties are based on sales, airplay and/or performance, not based on how long or short a track is.

My comments were self explanatory. The contradiction is Page's protecting the Led Zeppelin Legacy vs. releasing edited material. He has no control over bootlegs but has control over official releases. 

Yes, I know how royalties work, Page editing out sections of the blues medley on WLL on the BBC sessions = no royalties to pay on those edited out sections.

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5 minutes ago, JTM said:

 

Yes, I know how royalties work, Page editing out sections of the blues medley on WLL on the BBC sessions = no royalties to pay on those edited out sections.

Unfortunately you are spot on.  A shame that royalties checks exceed presenting the music the way it was played.  

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I get what everyone's saying about royalties, but that doesn't explain cutting out two minutes of No Quarter, or the jarringly horrible edit in Dazed and Confused, or swapping out Celebration Day for a lesser version, or some of the other frankly strange edits made to SRTS 2007 edition.

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There is no definitive version of The Song Remains The Same!!! The original was imperfect, the 2007 one was a complete botch. The only way to salvage TSRTS would be to:

· Release 6CD box set with complete unedited shows, like Deep Purple did with Made In Japan NOT GOING TO HAPPEN

· Release complete show worth of material in original running order with unedited takes from different nights. But don't call it The Song Remains The Same. UNLIKELY

· Release the original 1976 version with other songs on separate companion disc. PLAUSIBLE

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6 hours ago, Balthazor said:

I get what everyone's saying about royalties, but that doesn't explain cutting out two minutes of No Quarter, or the jarringly horrible edit in Dazed and Confused, or swapping out Celebration Day for a lesser version, or some of the other frankly strange edits made to SRTS 2007 edition.

The producer(s) opinion obviously differs from yours, hence the reason why we got what we got. It's all about business, not pleasing the "fans". As for those edits, tbh I did not notice them until someone pointed them out.

The WLL edits being   "Truckin' Little Mama"  "For What it's Worth"  " Honey Bee"  "The Lemon Song" ....

Edited by JTM

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2 hours ago, Balthazor said:

I get what everyone's saying about royalties, but that doesn't explain cutting out two minutes of No Quarter, or the jarringly horrible edit in Dazed and Confused, or swapping out Celebration Day for a lesser version, or some of the other frankly strange edits made to SRTS 2007 edition.

What explains those changes you lament is Jimmy and Kevin Shirley having to edit the music to fit the visual edits, of which they were legally restrained from changing... even 'Celebration Day' had to be mixed to fit the previously-edited visuals, despite it not making the final theatrical cut of the movie itself.

2 hours ago, kayley10 said:

There is no definitive version of The Song Remains The Same!!! The original was imperfect, the 2007 one was a complete botch. The only way to salvage TSRTS would be to:

· Release 6CD box set with complete unedited shows, like Deep Purple did with Made In Japan NOT GOING TO HAPPEN

· Release complete show worth of material in original running order with unedited takes from different nights. But don't call it The Song Remains The Same. UNLIKELY

· Release the original 1976 version with other songs on separate companion disc. PLAUSIBLE

Oh c'mon... a botch?  Not even close.  The only problem with the 2007 edition and HTWWW  was unfortunate compression in the final mastering (and in the latter, the exclusion of three tracks)... other than that, they rocked and were both most welcome.

It's possible that HTWWW  might get a vinyl release, but don't hold your breath, ditto a 24/96 remastered edition of the 1976 TSRTS, but I don't think either is likely anytime soon... but then, I never thought - and indeed publicly stated as such on another forum - that BBC Sessions  would get the very treatment it's receiving now, so who knows?

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Yawn, another tepid reissue/remaster hyped as a " holy grail" from our beloved Page and Co. Hopefully the remaster isn't the common denominator friendly mash compressed for Beats and I-phones. If the mastering isn't significantly better than the Empress Valley BBC box set then I don't see myself getting this anytime soon. If I do succumb to the inevitable jones to have the latest release then I think I would most likely re-arrange the bonus tracks to align in proper order with their respective shows.  Haven't done the math for the timing but I assume they put the extras on a 3rd disc because to put them in proper sequence they would need 4 discs. ?? At any rate, this release will help offset the $800K in legal fees that a judge denied in a recoup attempt by Page and Warner/Chappel. It was a BS lawsuit but ...LOL. 

I wonder why, with all the multitude of board tapes out there that have been released ,Zep don't release any more live material officially? Is it because multi-tracks don't exist? There must be some shows that were recorded to multi track or even two track, not just house or monitor feeds. I'm sure there are some serious experts in this area who are knowledgable about Zep's live recording methods. Board feeds were (most likely) done straight to tape, correct? I mean, even a raw remaster of a decent soundboard released officially would be snatched up by real fans. WTF?  Just one!?? This was done with Miles Davis bootleg series recently to great effect.  Is it perhaps because Plant's voice was embarrassingly bad after 1972? Or Page's playing was so sloppy after 1973?  Despite these faults, no rock band came close to the improvisatory brilliance and fire of Zep live. I guess true fans have to cherish the bootlegs because all we keep getting with these reissues is nothing new, except for a few unreleased tracks and alternate mixes.  The first album reissue was the most promising to me because it featured a live show as the bonus disc. How great would it have been to have a corresponding era live show as a  bonus to each studio album?! I know, keep dreaming. 

 Still, by now there should at least be an officially released complete Knebworth !!  :mellow:

Edited by porgie66
spell correction, text addition

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8 hours ago, JTM said:

 

Yes, I know how royalties work, Page editing out sections of the blues medley on WLL on the BBC sessions = no royalties to pay on those edited out sections.

No you still don't get it. 

Edits of certain track have no effect on royalties. 

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Just listened to Communication Breakdown from Paris Theatre on Spotify...its bright and crispy. EV's sounds better to me, warmer though a bit more distorted. Feel So Bad is cut as well. I'm sticking with the EV box set when I want to hear the BBC recordings. 

Edited by porgie66

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16 hours ago, kayley10 said:

There is no definitive version of The Song Remains The Same!!! The original was imperfect, the 2007 one was a complete botch. The only way to salvage TSRTS would be to:

· Release 6CD box set with complete unedited shows, like Deep Purple did with Made In Japan NOT GOING TO HAPPEN

· Release complete show worth of material in original running order with unedited takes from different nights. But don't call it The Song Remains The Same. UNLIKELY

· Release the original 1976 version with other songs on separate companion disc. PLAUSIBLE

Like the "plausible" option.

Original 1976 soundtrack with companion disc of different tracks from different nights... Garden tapes etc

something will surely materialise it's  the only original album of the time not to have been updated in this latest round of reissues. My money would have been in this getting work before the BBC sessions . But still I reckon it's more likely to happen now!

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11 hours ago, sixpense said:

No you still don't get it. 

Edits of certain track have no effect on royalties. 

No, I don't get what you are getting at.....

The WLL edits being   "Truckin' Little Mama"  "For What it's Worth"  " Honey Bee"  "The Lemon Song" , therefore as these titles have been edited out of WLL no royalties are payable, if they had remained Page would have to cough up............Back to you...

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13 hours ago, porgie66 said:

Yawn, another tepid reissue/remaster hyped as a " holy grail" from our beloved Page and Co. Hopefully the remaster isn't the common denominator friendly mash compressed for Beats and I-phones. If the mastering isn't significantly better than the Empress Valley BBC box set then I don't see myself getting this anytime soon. If I do succumb to the inevitable jones to have the latest release then I think I would most likely re-arrange the bonus tracks to align in proper order with their respective shows.  Haven't done the math for the timing but I assume they put the extras on a 3rd disc because to put them in proper sequence they would need 4 discs. ?? At any rate, this release will help offset the $800K in legal fees that a judge denied in a recoup attempt by Page and Warner/Chappel. It was a BS lawsuit but ...LOL. 

I wonder why, with all the multitude of board tapes out there that have been released ,Zep don't release any more live material officially? Is it because multi-tracks don't exist? There must be some shows that were recorded to multi track or even two track, not just house or monitor feeds. I'm sure there are some serious experts in this area who are knowledgable about Zep's live recording methods. Board feeds were (most likely) done straight to tape, correct? I mean, even a raw remaster of a decent soundboard released officially would be snatched up by real fans. WTF?  Just one!?? This was done with Miles Davis bootleg series recently to great effect.  Is it perhaps because Plant's voice was embarrassingly bad after 1972? Or Page's playing was so sloppy after 1973?  Despite these faults, no rock band came close to the improvisatory brilliance and fire of Zep live. I guess true fans have to cherish the bootlegs because all we keep getting with these reissues is nothing new, except for a few unreleased tracks and alternate mixes.  The first album reissue was the most promising to me because it featured a live show as the bonus disc. How great would it have been to have a corresponding era live show as a  bonus to each studio album?! I know, keep dreaming. 

 Still, by now there should at least be an officially released complete Knebworth !!  :mellow:

YES!!! It really is surprising there have not been more live releases. I still think there will be. I have asked before on here, whats in the vault, what is possible. At the end of the day, the idea of a live chronological release must be possible as it was Page himself that talked about this. So eventually, I still believe there will be a "this is it!" FINAL CHAPTER live release that is THE LAST official Zeppelin release that will be a killer package with bonus disk editions, extra's in deluxe sets, etc. And that will be IT.

Edited by rm2551

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