Phil Collins says he's not the one to blame for Zeppelin's Live Aid Performance

[SteveAJones]

On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 1:55 AM, the chase said:

 

Well I did.. from someone somewhere.. maybe you're right, a joke or it was urban legend.. but I did read it.. I'll see if I can dig it up.. Robert makes a crack about Jason just signing with Atlantic that morning during the show. 

Sorry, I had to scroll up and read your post again...I thought you meant the 02 reunion show. Even so, it sounds far-fetched to me. After all, how would Blackwell have rehearsed with Page & Jones in England when he was on tour in North America with Robert? Additionally, having Jason filling in for his father elevated the emotional quotient of this reunion ten fold. You know the quip about Jason having signed to Atlantic that morning was a joke. Phil Carson had already signed Jason (Virginia Wolf) to Atlantic Records a few years prior.  

[SteveAJones]

23 hours ago, the chase said:

So Phil says right on this interview that he asked Robert if he could play.. He asked if he could play and didn't bother to learn 3 songs.. That sucks on his part.. imagine if Tony Thompson wasn't there!!??

Maybe he thought it was going to be Honeydrippers or RP solo stuff, songs he knew or could fudge.. if not, he has no excuses.. 

I don't care how wasted Jimmy was or if he left his flanger on during Rock and Roll.. he played fine and knew the songs.. 

They all seem pretty happy at this interview ... even with the lame Alan Hunter and his even lamer questions. 

Phil just needs to own up that being onstage with Led Zeppelin was strictly a business decision, not an artistic one. The camera was on HIM as HE introduced the band in the prime time viewing slot, thus giving MTV an excuse to list HIS name onscreen and plug HIS No Jacket Required album as they took to the stage. It was all about ego and vanity.

[the chase]

1 hour ago, SteveAJones said:

Sorry, I had to scroll up and read your post again...I thought you meant the 02 reunion show. Even so, it sounds far-fetched to me. After all, how would Blackwell have rehearsed with Page & Jones in England when he was on tour in North America with Robert? Additionally, having Jason filling in for his father elevated the emotional quotient of this reunion ten fold. You know the quip about Jason having signed to Atlantic that morning was a joke. Phil Carson had already signed Jason (Virginia Wolf) to Atlantic Records a few years prior.  

No that's cool.

Robert does seem to push for his guys... Collins, Martinez. Chris Blackwell was there and performed with Robert's band.. I wish I could find it, but I'm positive I read it.. 

Either way, it's Jason's rightful gig..and I'm glad he got to play it.

[the chase]

1 hour ago, SteveAJones said:

Phil just needs to own up that being onstage with Led Zeppelin was strictly a business decision, not an artistic one. The camera was on HIM as HE introduced the band in the prime time viewing slot, thus giving MTV an excuse to list HIS name onscreen and plug HIS No Jacket Required album as they took to the stage. It was all about ego and vanity.

Agreed.. But it does kind of stink for him that he did all this good stuff for the cause... Played Drums on Do They Know It's Christmas... jetted from there to here to appear at both Live Aid shows. Now people forget all that and he's more known for his messy performance with Page Plant and Jones..

He should have played Rock and Roll and left the stage..

[porgie66]

2 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

Phil just needs to own up that being onstage with Led Zeppelin was strictly a business decision, not an artistic one. The camera was on HIM as HE introduced the band in the prime time viewing slot, thus giving MTV an excuse to list HIS name onscreen and plug HIS No Jacket Required album as they took to the stage. It was all about ego and vanity.

Absolutely !

[Xolo1974]

5 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

Phil just needs to own up that being onstage with Led Zeppelin was strictly a business decision, not an artistic one. The camera was on HIM as HE introduced the band in the prime time viewing slot, thus giving MTV an excuse to list HIS name onscreen and plug HIS No Jacket Required album as they took to the stage. It was all about ego and vanity.

Completely agree!

[Boleskinner]

Not to jump on the Phil Collins beat-up post, but he also made a huge screw up in the Wembley leg of Live Aid, playing a massive bum note on Against All Odds on the piano. Schadenfreude at it's finest! 

[Amstel]

I remember being 13, and very excited to see Jones, Page and Plant perform at Live Aid.  At the time, I thought to myself it wasn't the same.  I was disappointed because my memory had this great band sounding phenomenol on the soundtrack The Song Remains The Same, and here they were - Page still out of it and not able to play, Plant's voice shot and Jones couldn't be heard.  I had no feeling one way or the other about Phil Collins joining them.  I did have excitement to see Tony Thompson because it was then rumored that he may be "the " drummer moving forward if a full fledged reunion occured.  To this day, I am glad Led Zeppelin never reformed.  Like has been said, it takes four certain individuals, and unfortunately one of those individuals has passed.  Imo, that really puts Led Zeppelin ahead of their contemporaries.  There was a respect factor within the surving three members and that can never be overstated!

[IpMan]

12 minutes ago, Amstel said:

I remember being 13, and very excited to see Jones, Page and Plant perform at Live Aid.  At the time, I thought to myself it wasn't the same.  I was disappointed because my memory had this great band sounding phenomenol on the soundtrack The Song Remains The Same, and here they were - Page still out of it and not able to play, Plant's voice shot and Jones couldn't be heard.  I had no feeling one way or the other about Phil Collins joining them.  I did have excitement to see Tony Thompson because it was then rumored that he may be "the " drummer moving forward if a full fledged reunion occured.  To this day, I am glad Led Zeppelin never reformed.  Like has been said, it takes four certain individuals, and unfortunately one of those individuals has passed.  Imo, that really puts Led Zeppelin ahead of their contemporaries.  There was a respect factor within the surving three members and that can never be overstated!

I don't wish to come across as some obsessed fanboy, I am actually being critical when I ask this. Please explain where Page screwed up, could not play, or played poorly during the Live Aid set. I have watched all three songs and in my opinion, he played fine, not what I would call "inspired" playing but he did not flub a single solo and his main solo (the one in Stairway) was not a bad performance at all and was free of mistakes. I understand Plant's voice was off during Rock & Roll but it was fine for WLL & STH. People are way to critical of this performance, especially Page's performance and it is simply not warranted. Ok, he used a flanger, who cares, its his song, his guitar, and how he wants to play it is up to him. Or maybe he was too wasted to know the damn thing was even on, who knows. All I know is what I see and performance wise Page did a good, albeit average job. And, as I pointed out before, for a guy who was obviously very drunk he played much, much better than one would expect. Throw in the fact that there was no rehearsal and that Page, Plant & Jones were playing with three additional musicians they had not played with before (Robert excepted) and this should go down in history as a damn fine performance all things considered. After all, three years later for the 40'th they had rehearsed, they had a drummer well versed in the songs, and everything ready to go yet Page completely blew it, his absolute worst performance period. 

I remember watching the show live and I too was not impressed but that was because of several reasons: My live experiences with Zep were TSRTS film & soundtrack and the April 10th 1977 concert I attended. Both of these shows were amazing, energetic performances for the ages so, compared to those, this gig just came off as flat and uninspired to me. Then of course were the missed cues here and there, and finally, I really hate the setlist. I have never been a fan of RNR because it was always played on the radio and was sick of the song by 1980. WLL I always associate with the medleys so this truncated version seemed throw-away. Then we have STH which though a great song, is not in my top 10 Zep tunes anyway. However time and distance have changed my perspective and I dig it.

This gig reminds me of the guy (or girl) who goes out with someone in high school only to find out later the girl / guy is considered unattractive among the crowd at school. Even though you had a good time on the date, all of a sudden, because of what other people think, your good date just turned into a "what the fuck" moment.

[rm2551]

So I've also been following this thread, finally went to Youtube. Wasn't too bad. Was by no means inspired as lpMan points out, but was ok. I thought all in all Phil C. was ok.

For what it was, it was ok.

What it was = not really taken as a serious "reunion" by Page / Plant - not a lot of care for making it a "statement" - just a good contribution to the night. And that seems to be exactly what it was. Just a contribution.

They were NEVER going to recapture the glory. Even if rehearsals with both drummers were intensive and went for months. The O2 gig was as good as it was ever going to get post Zep, and rightly is a one off. (At the time I was in the "please God reform!!!" group, but now am glad the legacy is intact).

[Amstel]

2 hours ago, IpMan said:

I don't wish to come across as some obsessed fanboy, I am actually being critical when I ask this. Please explain where Page screwed up, could not play, or played poorly during the Live Aid set. I have watched all three songs and in my opinion, he played fine, not what I would call "inspired" playing but he did not flub a single solo and his main solo (the one in Stairway) was not a bad performance at all and was free of mistakes. I understand Plant's voice was off during Rock & Roll but it was fine for WLL & STH. People are way to critical of this performance, especially Page's performance and it is simply not warranted. Ok, he used a flanger, who cares, its his song, his guitar, and how he wants to play it is up to him. Or maybe he was too wasted to know the damn thing was even on, who knows. All I know is what I see and performance wise Page did a good, albeit average job.

 

Page was never the same after he started his heroin addiction, and was worse after the death of John Bonham.  The ARMS shows are Page at his lowest.  IMO, he never fully recovered, as a player, from these two (heroin,/death of John Bonham) specific incidents.  And yes, I do consider Jimmy Page to be one of the two greatest guitarists ever - Page 1a. Hendrix 1b.  Page from 66'-75' is some of the most powerful, pationate playing I've ever heard.  I also don't wear rose colored glasses.  Page played horribly at Live Aid.  Post Led Zeppelin, Walking Into Clarksdale was Page's greatest achievement.  Robert Plant's as well.

[the-ocean87]

1 hour ago, Amstel said:

Page was never the same after he started his heroin addiction, and was worse after the death of John Bonham.  The ARMS shows are Page at his lowest.  IMO, he never fully recovered, as a player, from these two (heroin,/death of John Bonham) specific incidents.  And yes, I do consider Jimmy Page to be one of the two greatest guitarists ever - Page 1a. Hendrix 1b.  Page from 66'-75' is some of the most powerful, pationate playing I've ever heard.  I also don't wear rose colored glasses.  Page played horribly at Live Aid.  Post Led Zeppelin, Walking Into Clarksdale was Page's greatest achievement.  Robert Plant's as well.

Yeah I agree with most parts, except the "greatest guitarist ever" part. Maybe "the best Rock guitarist". Even in his best years (1968-1973) he had some bad shows where he played quite sloppy (Southampton 73 for example). But that was his sytle and people love him for that. From a guitar player's perspective, most of his playing after 1975 was far from being "the greatest rock player ever".  IMO guys who played a similar genre like Page, for example Blackmore, Gallagher and Stevie Ray, owned him big time. I agree about the ARMS shows but would say the 1980 tour was even worse or similar creepy.

 

What did Page do wrong in Live Aid?? Well....the only good thing about his playing was maybe the Stairway intro part. His timing was off the whole gig, his soloing was sloppy. I remember when I first saw that gig I was shocked. Maybe as much as I was when I first listened to Berlin 1980. Really creepy stuff for everyone who plays more than 3 chords on a guitar.

[blindwillie127]

8 hours ago, the-ocean87 said:

 

What did Page do wrong in Live Aid?? Well....the only good thing about his playing was maybe the Stairway intro part. His timing was off the whole gig, his soloing was sloppy. I remember when I first saw that gig I was shocked. Maybe as much as I was when I first listened to Berlin 1980. Really creepy stuff for everyone who plays more than 3 chords on a guitar.

My best friend and bandmate was at the Live Aid concert, drove from Fort Lauderdale specifically to see the LZ reunion. He told me it sounded "fucking great" when he got back, and stands by that to this day. When he watched/listened to the broadcast, he said it was not at all like hearing it live and in person. He didn't mention how Phil Collins didn't know the songs, or how shitty Page played, or how Plant couldn't sing, he just thoroughly enjoyed it. I know it sounds hard to believe, but perspective is always important. I tend to go with first person accounts as opposed to one who is doing their judging on tinny bootlegs or shitty sounding live broadcasts. Here's a first person account on Jimmy's 'creepy low point' ARMs performance at RAH by Michael Palin:  

"I am tempted by a phone call from Ray Cooper to attend the first of a two-night concert in aid of Multiple Sclerosis, in which many great rock stars of the '60's, all friends of Ronnie Lane who has MS, will be appearing, including Ray C.

...But even Ray is upstaged by the extraordinary appearance of Jimmy Page, who weaves his way around the stage like a man who has been frozen in the last stages of drunkenness, before actually falling over. He sways, reels, totters, bends, but still manages to play superbly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

   

 

[the-ocean87]

1 hour ago, blindwillie127 said:

My best friend and bandmate was at the Live Aid concert, drove from Fort Lauderdale specifically to see the LZ reunion. He told me it sounded "fucking great" when he got back, and stands by that to this day. When he watched/listened to the broadcast, he said it was not at all like hearing it live and in person. He didn't mention how Phil Collins didn't know the songs, or how shitty Page played, or how Plant couldn't sing, he just thoroughly enjoyed it. I know it sounds hard to believe, but perspective is always important. I tend to go with first person accounts as opposed to one who is doing their judging on tinny bootlegs or shitty sounding live broadcasts. Here's a first person account on Jimmy's 'creepy low point' ARMs performance at RAH by Michael Palin:  

"I am tempted by a phone call from Ray Cooper to attend the first of a two-night concert in aid of Multiple Sclerosis, in which many great rock stars of the '60's, all friends of Ronnie Lane who has MS, will be appearing, including Ray C.

...But even Ray is upstaged by the extraordinary appearance of Jimmy Page, who weaves his way around the stage like a man who has been frozen in the last stages of drunkenness, before actually falling over. He sways, reels, totters, bends, but still manages to play superbly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, it sounds different than on the record when you are in the audience.  Reverb from the venue etc. change the sound a bit so that mistakes cannot be heard as good as when you sit at home in front of your speakers. I know that from playing and recording in a band myself. Sometimes you think you played a great gig...until you hear the recording

[Boleskinner]

 

4 hours ago, the-ocean87 said:

Yes, it sounds different than on the record when you are in the audience.  Reverb from the venue etc. change the sound a bit so that mistakes cannot be heard as good as when you sit at home in front of your speakers. I know that from playing and recording in a band myself. Sometimes you think you played a great gig...until you hear the recording

Yeah, I can imagine when you played the RAH and listened back you picked up on every mistake you made ;-) It most be hard playing at your perfect level.

I thought Jimmy's playing at the ARMS at the RAH, apart from points in STH, were superb. Loved Prelude especially. At Live Aid he was pretty decent as well and he played some good licks in WLL, inter-playing with Plant.  

At times I've been the biggest critic of Page on here, but to say his playing on the 80 tour was "Really creepy stuff for everyone who plays more than 3 chords on a guitar." is just completely disrespectful and over the top.

[IpMan]

15 hours ago, Amstel said:

Page was never the same after he started his heroin addiction, and was worse after the death of John Bonham.  The ARMS shows are Page at his lowest.  IMO, he never fully recovered, as a player, from these two (heroin,/death of John Bonham) specific incidents.  And yes, I do consider Jimmy Page to be one of the two greatest guitarists ever - Page 1a. Hendrix 1b.  Page from 66'-75' is some of the most powerful, pationate playing I've ever heard.  I also don't wear rose colored glasses.  Page played horribly at Live Aid.  Post Led Zeppelin, Walking Into Clarksdale was Page's greatest achievement.  Robert Plant's as well.

Well I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this, especially the Page never fully recovered as a player part. His live performances in Japan during the Coverdale / Page were as good as anything he did live in Zeppelin, and his live playing from 96' - 98' in particular were, again IMO, on the same level live he did in Zeppelin at his peak. Was he as fast, no, but his actual playing, technique, and phrasing was better and I will take that over speed anyday.

[Amstel]

Page was not playing guitar the way he did in his prime on that Coverdale/Page tour!!!

[the chase]

Some of the quickest things I ever heard Jimmy play were on Little Games.. There's a certain amount of attack on that album that I've never heard him do quite the same way since.. Doesn't mean that was his best playing by any means.. 

Coverdale Page imo had Page's best studio playing since Presence. 

I really like blindwillie's point as well... "you had to be there".. some shitty tv mix can't possibly capture what Live Aid was like in person .. The great Michael Palin's comments on the ARMS show is also an eye opener..

The Atlantic 40th tv broadcast sounded like crap as well.. There was no keyboard feed for Kashmir on the tv signal... no JPJ strings or Bass Pedals.. Can't bail JP out for the botched Heartbreaker though.. But even still, I would assume it didn't suck sitting in the crowd at MSG. 

 

[Boleskinner]

1 hour ago, the chase said:

Some of the quickest things I ever heard Jimmy play were on Little Games.. There's a certain amount of attack on that album that I've never heard him do quite the same way since.. Doesn't mean that was his best playing by any means.. 

Coverdale Page imo had Page's best studio playing since Presence. 

I really like blindwillie's point as well... "you had to be there".. some shitty tv mix can't possibly capture what Live Aid was like in person .. The great Michael Palin's comments on the ARMS show is also an eye opener..

The Atlantic 40th tv broadcast sounded like crap as well.. There was no keyboard feed for Kashmir on the tv signal... no JPJ strings or Bass Pedals.. Can't bail JP out for the botched Heartbreaker though.. But even still, I would assume it didn't suck sitting in the crowd at MSG. 

 

Yeah, I've always wanted to hear a soundboard of Atlantic 40th to see if it fared any better (HB aside) and Live Aid, but never found one. Atlantic especially as the TV sound (I believe it was just a dry monitor feed) was awful.

[IpMan]

2 hours ago, Amstel said:

Page was not playing guitar the way he did in his prime on that Coverdale/Page tour!!!

Are you referring to speed? If so, I agree, and thankfully so. However if speed is your benchmark of a great guitar player, Neal Schon is your man. I have never heard anyone shred a neck like Neal, of course there is zero soul and emotion but damn, that boy is fast...Weeeeeee.

[Boleskinner]

This thread is going so off topic, now! lol.

Just watched Phill Collins on Jonathan Ross tv show in October and he looks so frail, even just chatting before his performance. I reckon he's in the I don't give a sh*t mode now and spilling the beans.

[IpMan]

PC was on the Daily Show with Trevor Noah the other day. Came across as a nice guy and down to earth. I am sure Trevor Noah being as gracious and kind as he is made Collins feel at ease. When Collins first came out I thought he forgot to put in his teeth as his mouth is somewhat concave but no, he had teeth. PC looks old though, worn out and in a somewhat don't give a shit mode. I wish the man the best though. Even though some here have been bashing the man (me included), he is no different form the rest of us and has the same fallibility as the rest of us. I am sure any of us, placed in the same position of Collins at Live Aid, or the 80's in general, would have let a bit of it go to our heads. The man was everywhere in the 80's once In The Air Tonight went apeshit Collins was crapping out gold nugget after gold nugget for the decade. Guy was on Miami Vice, several movies, playing with almost everyone, and, if John Lennon was alive in 85' you know damn well JC would have pulled out the stops for a Beatles reunion, just so he could sit in with Ringo and fuck up their set too.

Ha, could not help myself.

[riffsofpage]

On ‎10‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 5:33 AM, Brigante said:

Yes, it was a train wreck. Didn't bother me in the slightest - slick, polished and going-through-the-motions wasn't something I ever looked for from Zeppelin! Robert's said in the past that that they were 'pretty ramshackle' much of the time and Jimmy's often said that he likes to 'wing it'. That approach made for a lot of edge-of-your-seat exhilaration on a good night. Live Aid just happened to be a bad night. Yes, they hurled themselves over the cliff with the world watching - but wasn't that headlong approach closer to the spirit of Zeppelin than some note-perfect recitation would've been?      

agree

I think it was a great performance and memorable given that it was their first reunion in ?5 years, and no rehersal.

 

I too have a distasteful memory of the mtv dj's though -lol

 

[Amstel]

2 hours ago, IpMan said:

Are you referring to speed? If so, I agree, and thankfully so. However if speed is your benchmark of a great guitar player, Neal Schon is your man. I have never heard anyone shred a neck like Neal, of course there is zero soul and emotion but damn, that boy is fast...Weeeeeee.

Speed?  Fuck no!  Look, many so called experts believe Page was always sloppy and that is not the case!  There is something to be said for tone.  Page had a tone that may have sounded like he was sloppy, and that was not the case!  That man shredded up to 75'.   He didn't get the nickname "magic fingers" for nothing.  And tell me, if one is truly sloppy it would be evident while playing an accoustic guitar.  Btw, SRV is my third favorite player, and he was messed up on heroin as well.  Booed off the field at Yankees Satdium while trying to play the Star Spangled Banner.  Does that make SRV unqualified as a guitar player?  Not at all.  Just a low point he eventually conquered.

[SteveAJones]

8 hours ago, Boleskinner said:

Yeah, I've always wanted to hear a soundboard of Atlantic 40th to see if it fared any better (HB aside) and Live Aid, but never found one. Atlantic especially as the TV sound (I believe it was just a dry monitor feed) was awful.

You need to hear the FM simulcast source.