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The Rain Song / Gone Away by D Hathaway


porgie66

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Obviously, Zeppelin "borrowed" ( many say, stole) licks /phrases etc many times as has been well noted . A significant musical phrase from Donny Hathaway's great tune Gone Away , which is on Roberta Flack's Chapter Two, is another example which isn't often if ever acknowledged. The song was originally done by the Impressions with Curtis Mayfield in 1968 then covered by Flack in 1970.  Clearly they used the hook between verses for The Rain Song. Makes sense since Flack's album was on Atlantic as well and they were fans of good soul music.  Maybe the Impressions version was the inspiration. I've attached the song here. Anyone else notice this before? I have never seen or heard anyone else note this comparison.  Another example of Page stealing from the best. Not that I object that much because most of the time he personalized and added so much of his own creative touch and character to everything he borrowed/stole. Some examples are more egregious than others. Stairway was not but this one is pretty clear.  To me The Rain Song is one of Zeppelin's greatest compositions but I am acknowledging the great Donny Hathaway for that little nugget, which is a distinctive part of the song, albeit small.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, SteveAJones said:

How about no, Scott.

I don't mean song writing credit. I mean acknowledgement...and that's what I'm doing. I should re-phrase that. Or do you disagree that the phrase was not "borrowed" from Gone Away?

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6 hours ago, The Dark Lord said:

A tenuous claim that borrowed / stole 5 minutes of my life, trying to figure out what on earth the alleged similarity is. Fail. Next. 

Sorry to waste your time, but IMO the similarity is clear if you have decent ears. The first time I heard the Flack tune I immediately thought of the Rain Song.  I am talking about a two bar phrase that is nearly identical melodically and rhythmically. The Flack version starts with it. In the Rain Song it first appears in bars 5 and 6 of the intro and appears later. The songs are not in the same key. Flack's version is in Eb, Rain Song is in G.  The bass is pedaling on the tonic and the melody is harmonized in thirds with the same rhythm as the phrase I'm talking about in the Rain Song.  The first bar is the same, the second bar is only slightly different melodically (melody notes are played in different order) but the same anticipated rhythmic figure.  Yes, its just two bars and in The Rain Song the progression moves to an Eb augmented chord which is where the similarity ends. But its definitely there for those two bars and thats what I am acknowledging.  Just like Trampled Underfoot/Superstition similarities. Clearly Stevie's tune influenced that one too.  I'm noting an interesting influence coming from a great soul musician on a great Zep tune that seems obvious to me but I not going to piss into a hurricane here. Page "borrowed" a lot and I think its fun to make little discoveries like this. The two bar phrase is absolutely similar and IMO it isn't coincidental. Throw me a bone here people!  

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7 hours ago, babysquid said:

First heard at 1:13. It's just a simple chord change and it resolves differently in the progression. 

The Flack version starts with the phrase in question. The Rain Song phrase is in bars 5 and 6. It actually starts on the and of beat 4 in bar 4. It's not a common rhythmic phrase and they are identical. The melody is almost identical, over a tonic pedal. Can you hear it??

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You said

" The first bar is the same, the second bar is only slightly different melodically (melody notes are played in different order) but the same anticipated rhythmic figure.  Yes, its just two bars and in The Rain Song the progression moves to an Eb augmented chord which is where the similarity ends."

 So for a similarity of one bar of music you think Donnie Hathaway should have a credit or acknowledgement to the creation of the rain song? I love his stuff but that's just silly. There are thousands of songs that have thousands of similarity with thousands of other songs. Intentenally or not. There is a limited number of notes and combinations of notes that can be played 

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29 minutes ago, jsj said:

You said

" The first bar is the same, the second bar is only slightly different melodically (melody notes are played in different order) but the same anticipated rhythmic figure.  Yes, its just two bars and in The Rain Song the progression moves to an Eb augmented chord which is where the similarity ends."

 So for a similarity of one bar of music you think Donnie Hathaway should have a credit or acknowledgement to the creation of the rain song? I love his stuff but that's just silly. There are thousands of songs that have thousands of similarity with thousands of other songs. Intentenally or not. There is a limited number of notes and combinations of notes that can be played 

I'm not saying he should get a credit , I'm acknowledging him as having an influence on that phrase. I know it's just two bars but its a distinctive phrase, and sounds like Jimmy or Jones said "hey I like that" and they nicked it. Zep nicked little and big bits very often and I thought it was worth noting this one, and wondering if anyone else noticed it before. 

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Page said the influence of the start of the Rain Song was George Harrison's Something. 

Maybe they did hear it, and there's no evidence they did, and maybe they didn't. What you're acknowledging is is a slight musical similarity for one, and a variety on a second bar of music. Of which there are many including in Hathaway's songs and every other writers songs. 

Its not a case. Really.

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7 hours ago, jsj said:

Page said the influence of the start of the Rain Song was George Harrison's Something. 

Maybe they did hear it, and there's no evidence they did, and maybe they didn't. What you're acknowledging is is a slight musical similarity for one, and a variety on a second bar of music. Of which there are many including in Hathaway's songs and every other writers songs. 

Its not a case. Really.

 Yes, I know the story about George Harrison telling  Bonham you guys don't write ballads. So Jimmy answered with the Rain Song and the opening chords are the same progression as Something. But, these two bars are pretty much the same as Donny's phrase, rhythm and melody. That's not just strumming a common descending chord progression. Too many words , either ya hear it or ya don't. 

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It's a very touching song, never heard it before. If I understand it rightly, it's the beggining of the Roberta Flack version. It's similar, but a note for note comparison, shows you, how Page's genius makes it very much original. Not to mention, it's also similar to Tchaikovsky's piano concerto in b flat minor in this phrase. Straigh as a love arrow!

 

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2 hours ago, Matjaz1 said:

It's a very touching song, never heard it before. If I understand it rightly, it's the beggining of the Roberta Flack version. It's similar, but a note for note comparison, shows you, how Page's genius makes it very much original. Not to mention, it's also similar to Tchaikovsky's piano concerto in b flat minor in this phrase. Straigh as a love arrow!

 

Yes , just the first two bars, which repeats again later in the song, sort of an interlude between verses. Its so similar to me that I just thought Page/Jones must've heard it and liked it enough to use the lyrical phrase. The funny thing is, the first few chords of Rain Song are very much a nod to Harrison's Something , and the next two bars are a nod to Gone Away. That's what I hear anyway. I'm not trying to diminish Page's monumental musical skills. I'm simply making an observation and wondering if anyone else acknowledges what I heard. Thanks for your smart and non-dismissive reply. That's what makes this forum interesting. Where the hell else can I talk about shit like this?! 

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5 hours ago, Matjaz1 said:

Yes the first two bars, but if you put them both in the same key, it's a very different note combination!

I wouldn't say very different. The first bar notes are the same, the others are mostly the same but played in different order. The same major pedal sus kind of tonality and the rhythmic figure is the same. 

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It's different enough for me, to say it's original, the rest is not my job to do. What are you trying to do? It's allright you pointed it out, but many must have noted it before and it's really kind of pointless getting into this discussion, it's meaningless.

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7 hours ago, Matjaz1 said:

It's different enough for me, to say it's original, the rest is not my job to do. What are you trying to do? It's allright you pointed it out, but many must have noted it before and it's really kind of pointless getting into this discussion, it's meaningless.

I don't think it's meaningless. But there it is. Either you hear it or you don't. Other musicians I've shown the comparison thought that it's quite similar. I never saw or heard anyone else say it before though so I brought it up here. It's cool, I rest my case. 

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I heard the similarities, its interesting. On college radio they often play a song and then play 2 songs that sound similar, like where that song might have come from. With the current wilco single, i hear a big star riff and a t rex vibe combined, which is interesting. I guess good music is all related in a way. 

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