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rm2551

What boots will be possible with future technology?

28 posts in this topic

I have seen some impressive advancements in video production lately such as this. And the Star Wars movie - bringing back Peter Cushing as Grand Moff Tarkin, a young Princess Leia. Amazing.

So what of audio? Will technology will bring opportunities to greatly enhance/repair some lower quality recordings? Especially if there are parts, or even similar recordings (accoustically similar) that can be used to enhance a lesser quality sound into an outstanding - AND accurate account?

Take an opera singer. Maybe she has one incredibly good recording, and another that is fairly low quality. Based on information from the good quality recording, and the sound that is available from the lower one, an accurate landscape of what the sound would be like could be produced. Expand and build on whatever that process would be, and one day it can be applied to much more complex arrangements, like say a 4 piece rock outfit, with amazing and accurate results. :yes2:

I imagine at some point (could be a while yet) someone will be listening to Listen to this Eddie in a quality that would have us here in 2017 weep with joy. A sound that is beyond what you might think is possible now - but one technology eventually successfully delivers.

The only question in my mind is - how far away are such leaps in audio enhance/restore technology? :Thinking:

If they can add colour to a lot of turn of the century (19th to 20th) B&W film, put long departed actors into roles, and even produce speech by someone that never actually muttered the speech, in time, we will have the technology available to turn audience recordings and soundboards into incredible audio.

I wonder how close that dream is?

Edited by rm2551

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My question would be how many people will really care by the time such technology should become available? For example, we all know the advances to filmmaking technology have grown by leaps and bounds. Yet, speaking for myself, I can't remember the last time I went to the cinema nor purchased a new release (because most of the truly great filmmakers dead, among other reasons). Another example would be the many soundboards that continue to be released--can't remember the last time I purchased one because at some point it's like do I really need another soundboard recording? 

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17 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

My question would be how many people will really care by the time such technology should become available? For example, we all know the advances to filmmaking technology have grown by leaps and bounds. Yet, speaking for myself, I can't remember the last time I went to the cinema nor purchased a new release (because most of the truly great filmmakers dead, among other reasons). Another example would be the many soundboards that continue to be released--can't remember the last time I purchased one because at some point it's like do I really need another soundboard recording? 

aaaah, but Steve, what if those few shows that are among the best Zep played, but don't have a complete soundboard or good audience source boot, could be brought to life with a sound quality once thought impossible?

OR this: Imagine an ultimate Zeppelin collection that has almost every show in high quality.


How many people would care? Even if 50 or 100 years from now, I imagine the fan base - including proper hardcore fans like you find here, will still be very plentiful.

Most of the great rock outfits/writers/performers are also past (IMHO) - like the film makers you mention. Even more interesting then to see what could be done with old recorded shows from the 60's/70's great artists and those old great concerts.

And the thing is, at first, that technology would be expensive! And limited to studio's and production houses so probably subject the the whims of copyright holders who may have little motivation to do anything with it. But eventually, the capability/technology will be picked up by more and more people and will mean these kinds of restorations would not be limited to official releases.

I'm pretty sure this will one day come to pass. It may or may not be something we all get to see, but eventually? for sure.

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On 8-2-2017 at 7:46 AM, rm2551 said:

I have seen some impressive advancements in video production lately such as this. And the Star Wars movie - bringing back Peter Cushing as Grand Moff Tarkin, a young Princess Leia. Amazing.

So what of audio? Will technology will bring opportunities to greatly enhance/repair some lower quality recordings? Especially if there are parts, or even similar recordings (accoustically similar) that can be used to enhance a lesser quality sound into an outstanding - AND accurate account?

Take an opera singer. Maybe she has one incredibly good recording, and another that is fairly low quality. Based on information from the good quality recording, and the sound that is available from the lower one, an accurate landscape of what the sound would be like could be produced. Expand and build on whatever that process would be, and one day it can be applied to much more complex arrangements, like say a 4 piece rock outfit, with amazing and accurate results. :yes2:

I imagine at some point (could be a while yet) someone will be listening to Listen to this Eddie in a quality that would have us here in 2017 weep with joy. A sound that is beyond what you might think is possible now - but one technology eventually successfully delivers.

The only question in my mind is - how far away are such leaps in audio enhance/restore technology? :Thinking:

If they can add colour to a lot of turn of the century (19th to 20th) B&W film, put long departed actors into roles, and even produce speech by someone that never actually muttered the speech, in time, we will have the technology available to turn audience recordings and soundboards into incredible audio.

I wonder how close that dream is?

Interesting dilemma.........I guess between now and 10 years everyone can do such things at home...........but how far will enhancing do the original artists credit, without altering the soul (warts and all) of the real deal into some virtual reality clone?

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10 hours ago, Sathington Willoughby said:

Rocket Boots?

A big thank you on behalf of Ace Frehley, hahahahaaaa.

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It will not be like listening to the genuine thing. That is my problem with any potential- New boots.

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1 hour ago, craigled said:

It will not be like listening to the genuine thing. That is my problem with any potential- New boots.

:blink:

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I think what Craig means is that a new boot, no matter how good the quality, is nothing compared to having been at a Zeppelin concert in person. I agree with him, but good bootlegs are the next best thing.

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Yes. And we cannot expect there to be anymore hidden good bootlegs left. Although i never knew there was so many until i came on here. Oh and if i talk rubbish now, I am still ill. That is my genuine reason.

Edited by craigled
not finished

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If the new technology is a time machine....

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12 hours ago, reswati said:

A big thank you on behalf of Ace Frehley, hahahahaaaa.

 

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Microchips will be implanted into humans and they can listen to any bootleg by scanning the barcode of a particular show. Or someone can create a hologram of Led Zeppelin that can be synced with audio and programmed in one of those Virtual Reality helmets I see ads for now.

But you better hurry with that technology. With every passing day, the audio on those original soundboard and audience tapes deteriorates at an alarming rate. The same with any film or videotape of Led Zeppelin.

And Steve is right...we are the last generation that will really care about the vast quantity of Led Zeppelin bootlegs. That era is waning. I'm not saying that Led Zeppelin won't be listened to in the future...but it will be the official albums and the few live albums released. The bootleg market will shrivel up as the Baby Boomers, Generation X and Y get older and die off, and the succeeding generations don't have the passion for Led Zeppelin or collecting live shows that has fueled the Zeppelin bootleg industry since the 1970s.

 

Edited by Strider

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47 minutes ago, Strider said:

Microchips will be implanted into humans and they can listen to any bootleg by scanning the barcode of a particular show. Or someone can create a hologram of Led Zeppelin that can be synced with audio and programmed in one of those Virtual Reality helmets I see ads for now.

But you better hurry with that technology. With every passing day, the audio on those original soundboard and audience tapes deteriorates at an alarming rate. The same with any film or videotape of Led Zeppelin.

And Steve is right...we are the last generation that will really care about the vast quantity of Led Zeppelin bootlegs. That era is waning. I'm not saying that Led Zeppelin won't be listened to in the future...but it will be the official albums and the few live albums released. The bootleg market will shrivel up as the Baby Boomers, Generation X and Y get older and die off, and the succeeding generations don't have the passion for Led Zeppelin or collecting live shows that has fueled the Zeppelin bootleg industry since the 1970s.

 

Well, if I have anything to do with it my two boys will have that passion. They are 4 and 6 and I am doing everything in can to introduce them to unique, never to be repeated musicianship. I have guitars lying around the house for them to pick up at will (even though they fuck up the tuning, it's worth it). In between the wiggles they get 70's rock. My youngest told me yesterday in the car that he likes ten years gone. 

I share your concern Strider, but never underestimate the power and draw of good music. The bootlegs will always have a place. 

I got into Zep as a 13 year old. They had broken up 8 years previously. 

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2 hours ago, Strider said:

Microchips will be implanted into humans and they can listen to any bootleg by scanning the barcode of a particular show. Or someone can create a hologram of Led Zeppelin that can be synced with audio and programmed in one of those Virtual Reality helmets I see ads for now.

But you better hurry with that technology. With every passing day, the audio on those original soundboard and audience tapes deteriorates at an alarming rate. The same with any film or videotape of Led Zeppelin.

And Steve is right...we are the last generation that will really care about the vast quantity of Led Zeppelin bootlegs. That era is waning. I'm not saying that Led Zeppelin won't be listened to in the future...but it will be the official albums and the few live albums released. The bootleg market will shrivel up as the Baby Boomers, Generation X and Y get older and die off, and the succeeding generations don't have the passion for Led Zeppelin or collecting live shows that has fueled the Zeppelin bootleg industry since the 1970s.

 

I beg to differ my friend, after all, the last Castrati died over 100 years ago and the only recording made, from the late 19th century, is listened to by both students of classical music and fans alike to this day. Or take for instance the Robert Johnson, Son House, and Memphis Minnie albums which people flock to like the second coming. I know plenty of people who would pay their left nut (or ovary for the ladies), to get their hands on a version of those recording which were put through some sort of algorithmic computation which would clean up the recording and make it sound as if it were recorded by the best studio with the best equipment. I can guarantee when the technology becomes available to work such wonders, people 100 years form now will indeed pay top dollar if necessary for say a copy of Chicago Stadium April 10th 1977 which sounds as if you were front row center close enough to scare the band. Or any other Zep show that everyone knows was a kick ass performance but the boot sounds like dead dogs balls.

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12 hours ago, Strider said:

And Steve is right...we are the last generation that will really care about the vast quantity of Led Zeppelin bootlegs. That era is waning. I'm not saying that Led Zeppelin won't be listened to in the future...but it will be the official albums and the few live albums released. The bootleg market will shrivel up as the Baby Boomers, Generation X and Y get older and die off, and the succeeding generations don't have the passion for Led Zeppelin or collecting live shows that has fueled the Zeppelin bootleg industry since the 1970s.

The depths of your shortsightedness is breathtaking  You're implying either that thing we appreciate in LZ concert recordings won't have any lasting value or that future generations won't have the sensibility to seek out and enjoy these performances. Collecting LZ recordings hasn't set the world on fire and probably never will.  But I don't think it's gonna die with you, especially when fresh new listening experiences continue to be created with improved technology.

Physical bootlegs? They're no longer required for listening or distribution. They've become a novelty and don't even factor into this discussion.

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^^^The depth of your incomprehension is breathtaking. Misrepresenting what I said, as usual.

As I explicitly said before, Led Zeppelin's music will never die...it will live on just as other perennials do...Bach, Mozart, Sinatra, Elvis, Beatles. 

But it won't be in the numbers we have become accustomed to. Yes, parents of today will pass on their musical loves to their children...with some children it will stick and with others it won't.

I am sure Jimmy Page must be slightly disappointed that the remasters didn't sell more...especially the limited Super Deluxe Editions, which are all still available in the numbered copy editions. As record sales shrink as more people download and get their music digitally, Atlantic and other record companies will reach a tipping point on how often they can keep re-releasing the classics.

Technology doesn't always mean an improvement. Thanks to CGI and HD and Blu-Ray, a lot of movies and tv look like crap. From the advent of CD technology and minidiscs and then napster and MP3s and iTunes and iPods, sound quality has actually become worse in some respects.

Nobody has access to Mike Millard's original tapes. Apparently, it is the same with many other tapers such as Freezer or that guy who threw his tapes in the ocean. What happens to the original tapes that are now in private hands once these people die? Whatever technological advances are made, unless provisions are made for the proper storage and safe-keeping of the original tapes, it will be a moot point. At best, there will only be a low-generation copy to apply the technological enhancements.

Personally, I don't see how sound is going to improve past what we have now with 5.1 and surround sound...and some music sounds worse in 5.1 channel mode. Frankly, "Listen to This, Eddie" sounds amazing enough already. If you can't enjoy it now, no amount of technological enhancement is going to help.

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21 hours ago, Strider said:

we are the last generation that will really care about the vast quantity of Led Zeppelin bootlegs. That era is waning. I'm not saying that Led Zeppelin won't be listened to in the future...but it will be the official albums and the few live albums released. The bootleg market will shrivel up as the Baby Boomers, Generation X and Y get older and die off, and the succeeding generations don't have the passion for Led Zeppelin or collecting live shows that has fueled the Zeppelin bootleg industry since the 1970s.

You stated future generations won't listen to unofficial concert recordings which i what i clearly referenced and disputed in my post.  Comprehend that.

Present technology has already given enhanced listening experiences in the form of various remasters and matrices delivered with the speed of fiber optics.  What the future holds, i wouldn't dare to guess.

I'm sorry, but the authority with which you predict the future of football, technology, whatever, is fucking hilarious. Looking forward to your 2017 NFL analysis!

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What does the NFL have to do with this? I picked New England, by the way, so stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

You're just a fucking troll who likes to start arguments anyway. I should ignore you and let you troll on.

It's really simple. Yes, Led Zeppelin will be listened to in the future. Yes, the live shows will always be sought after (especially previously unearthed ones) by hardcore fans and someone will always want the latest souped-up version of "Listen to This, Eddie" or "Bonzo's Birthday Party". Just not in the numbers in the past. 

 

Edited by Strider

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1 hour ago, Strider said:

It's really simple. Yes, Led Zeppelin will be listened to in the future. Yes, the live shows will always be sought after (especially previously unearthed ones) by hardcore fans and someone will always want the latest souped-up version of "Listen to This, Eddie" or "Bonzo's Birthday Party". Just not in the numbers in the past. 

 

Fair call

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Yes, the live shows will always be sought after (especially previously unearthed ones) by hardcore fans and someone will always want the latest souped-up version of "Listen to This, Eddie" or "Bonzo's Birthday Party". Just not in the numbers in the past. 

I dunno Strider, I think Led Zeppelin will continue to draw a strong loyal fan base anywhere between more than just a casual fan to outright devotee at least as numerous as there is present today.

Good Blues based rock and roll. Once you hear one or two Zep albums, there are always going to be those that are hooked forever. I don't know why numbers would drop. Possibly Rock music itself is somewhat shelved for the shit that passes today? (God I sound so fucking OLD!) The music just does not date IMHO - it will be as pleasing and amazing in 2117 as 2017.

It may be that I am thinking about this through my Rose coloured glasses (typical bloody fan boy!) - but I just see the fan base as being maintained and most likely growing - though I have no idea of actual data and trends with sales and estimates with fan numbers.

A factor that is against my prediction:

Pub rock bands (at least in Australia) are a dying beast. Not extinct, but a shadow of it's former glory. If this is a global trend, it WILL have an impact on the sustainability/survival of Rock itself.

A factor that is for my prediction:

Pot is being more and more reassessed, and even legalised as a legitimate source of recreation like alcohol. Listening to Zep when high (alcohol OR pot, but certainly moreso the latter) will mean more numbers of people hear Zep on another level - or appreciate the songs more deeply. This might just be a fringe right now, but once society adjusts to the facts that Pot vs. alcohol is not how it's always been represented in terms of consequence/health I see a trend coming that is away from alcohol. Enough so that I think it will directly affect the fan base numbers.

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As with most things, time will tell.

Led Zeppelin's 50th Anniversary is next year...or if you want to go by the release date of the first album, January 2019. At that point, unless Jimmy and/or Atlantic have taken the necessary steps, whomever has tapes of 1968 or 1969 Led Zeppelin performances will be able to release them in the marketplace with no worries.

If you have been in any record store in the past few years, you have seen the flood of shows previously available only on bootlegs being released on vinyl and cds sold in stores. Bob Dylan, Bruce Sprngsteen, Alice Cooper, Mott the Hoople, Velvet Underground, Lou Reed...and more and more coming out every year.

This might be when we start to see the unreleased Led Zeppelin shows making an appearance.

As for technology being able to enhance future boots, as you can probably tell, I am on the fence about that. Obviously, Winston's remasters and the ability to do a matrix are positives.

But Ed Snowden is Exhibit A that technology is not always beneficial. Just because you can doesn't mean you always should.

I have seen some of these hologram things...and they make me cringe. A Billie Holiday one I saw was especially bad. I don't want poor John Bonham subjected to that. Let him rest in peace. Listen to the music and imagine the visuals in your mind. That will be far better than some hologram-programmer's vision of the band.

Another nightmare I fear to come. Given today's generation's proclivity towards autotune and assorted monstrosities, I keep waiting for some kid to say, "You know what Led Zeppelin needs? Some autotune! And a Pitbul or T-Pain rap in the middle!"

Someone could go through all the 1973 and 1975 tapes and autotune poor Plant's raspy voice. Oh yeah, that would just be swell. Hallelujah technology!

Forgive me while I vomit.

 

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10 minutes ago, Strider said:

Another nightmare I fear to come. Given today's generation's proclivity towards autotune and assorted monstrosities, I keep waiting for some kid to say, "You know what Led Zeppelin needs? Some autotune! And a Pitbul or T-Pain rap in the middle!"

Someone could go through all the 1973 and 1975 tapes and autotune poor Plant's raspy voice. Oh yeah, that would just be swell. Hallelujah technology!

Forgive me while I vomit.

This reminds me of gym in high school. The teachers would always play music from their iPod and it was ALWAYS shitty rap or dance-pop. I remember once they played The Four Seasons "December 1963 (Oh What a Night)" only it was remixed into some shitty dubstep version. Another time they started playing Roberta Flack's "Killing Me Softly With His Song", only to have it mashed up with some godawful Rascal Flatts' song (don't ask me, I have no clue why any sane person would think those two artists go together at all!)

Ugh! Thanks for putting these horrible thoughts into my brain! I can already hear the shitty Zeppelin remixes! Going to have to blast some LA 77 in order to bleach my brain now.

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2 hours ago, Strider said:

I have seen some of these hologram things...and they make me cringe. A Billie Holiday one I saw was especially bad. I don't want poor John Bonham subjected to that. Let him rest in peace. Listen to the music and imagine the visuals in your mind. That will be far better than some hologram-programmer's vision of the band.

Another nightmare I fear to come. Given today's generation's proclivity towards autotune and assorted monstrosities, I keep waiting for some kid to say, "You know what Led Zeppelin needs? Some autotune! And a Pitbul or T-Pain rap in the middle!"

Someone could go through all the 1973 and 1975 tapes and autotune poor Plant's raspy voice. Oh yeah, that would just be swell. Hallelujah technology!

Fuuuuuck, you've turned my beautiful dream of high quality boots into a Futuristic electro-manufactured R&B holographic nightmare!!!!

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I remember an interview with Jimmy Page in February 1975 where he was addressing Robert's vocal issues due to the flu. He said, half jokingly, that the band minus Plant was performing so hot, on such a great level by that point, that they should leave Plant behind for a month to recoup while they play as a power trio. I believe it was either Creem or Circus, not sure which one. Anyway, my point is, has anyone removed Robert's vocals from the 1975 gig's where his voice was bad but the band was hot? Just to have the pure instrumentals to enjoy without poor Planty's shaky rasp to distract?

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