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ThreeSticks

Led Zeppelin in the months following Bonzo's passing

160 posts in this topic

On 15/02/2017 at 10:42 AM, IpMan said:

You are likely right Steve however I believe an alternate theory is just as plausible:

I think that Page & Jones did in fact want to move forward with a new drummer, at least to finish out their commitments toward the NA tour, but Robert immediately said no way, game over. Jimmy realized the band could not lose two members and continue in any fashion so that was that. I truly believe it was ultimately a Robert decision, and one he made the very second he found out Bonzo had passed away.

This.

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Totally disappointed that Page and Jones couldn't after the 07' show formed a non-Zep project. Quiet as Jones is,

not convinced that Page would be able to get away with substandard playing. So many options for Page, nothing works.

I also think that Jimmy, despite his hostility towards Plant for the obvious reasons, probably got quite frustrated

with most other vocalists, as who could ever match Plant.

After Bonzo's death, not convinced at all the band members had ANY seriousness to continue. Most groups live

sound pretty much like the record except possibly guitar solos, and  some fills. Even in 77' when the live set lists

were almost alike. from one show to another, there would still be jamming almost ESP style within songs with

tight structures(ALS, IMTOD). Page has even said that he would feel sorry for a replacement drummer playing 

his heart out yet failing to come even close to Bonzo. Yet Page was fine with M Lee and Jason later much later.

Of course after 07' with Plant aboard then 50 date US tour with Jason and JPJ full speed ahead.

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22 hours ago, Stryder1978 said:

So, did having Jason Bonham sitting in for O2 concert warrant passing the gig off as a "Led Zeppeln" show? 

The 02 concert was an entirely honorable affair, but it WASN'T Led Zeppelin as such... that ended on September 25th, 1980, and unless you hire a medium and conduct a seance, can't ever be again.

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On ‎2‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 1:59 PM, jasonlovesvids said:

Why did this happen?  Was this when Jimmy hurt his back?

Yes, Jimmy's back injury necessitated cancellation of all the remaining dates from Aug to Dec 2000. The insurance underwriter settled the claim with the stipulation that Jimmy make no public performances for six months.

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On ‎2‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 8:36 AM, ThreeSticks said:

Since LZ stayed in Britain from 1977 until the end, one would assume that some of the awful tax laws that forced English rockers into exile had been reduced.

After July 1977 they weren't touring so they weren't earning (as much).

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On ‎2‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 11:49 PM, Stryder1978 said:

So, did having Jason Bonham sitting in for O2 concert warrant passing the gig off as a "Led Zeppeln" show? 

It was the three surviving members of Led Zeppelin paying tribute to Ahmet Ertegun, accompanied by Jason Bonham on drums. So it was 3/4 of Led Zeppelin in the flesh and 1/4 in spirit, as such it was a Led Zeppelin show.

One can call it an approximation of the original - as I have - or an evolution of the original, it doesn't really matter.

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On ‎2‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 5:08 AM, ThreeSticks said:

I wonder why this never materialized.

I really do hope that at some point Jimmy Page gets together a new band, puts out a new album, and does a new tour. I was so fortunate to see the Page/Plant "Clarksdale" tour, and it's a night I will never forget. Seeing Jimmy back on stage playing with fire was a dream come true.

It never materialized because without Robert Plant on vocals it would have been perceived as Jimmy Page's Led Zeppelin Experience. Nobody's wants that.

See above.

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As I said in another forum,

Page and Jones. - THAT could be a great starting foundation for a new project going forward. Get together, jam, write, perform, get others in to see what's what, go from there.

In the very early Zep days it seems Jones was more key than people either realise, or at least talk about. It was a Page project to start, no doubt, but the input from Jones should not be underestimated. Importantly, this should work for Page as much as work overall.

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Was probably too much for jimmy to take, being the lessor musician to jones and having him dictate the musical direction at a level that he could no longer reach.

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7 minutes ago, zooma said:

Was probably too much for jimmy to take, being the lessor musician to jones and having him dictate the musical direction at a level that he could no longer reach.

That may be a true statement but not really a fair one. Jones was always the greater musician. Not only the best musician within Led Zep but one of the top 10 musicians in all of rock music. Jones is classically trained and plays a multitude of instruments at an extremely advanced level. Jones in affect is a white Prince in regard to musical ability. Jimmy was / is a guitarist, self taught, and that is what it is. Jimmy was an excellent guitarists but he was not classically taught and only really played the guitar, mandolin, and harmonica. I am sure Jimmy was aware of this from day one and if it did not bother him in Zeppelin I doubt it would bother him now. I assume the reason why Page / Jones group never happened is because Page was obsessed with a Zep reunion tour and nothing else. One thing which has always vexed me is Them Crooked Vultures. Did Jones ever ask Jimmy to come along when he (Jones) went to talk to Grohl & Homme regarding getting together to form a band? Was an offer extended to Jimmy to participate in TCV but he declined?

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I personally doubt that jones ever thought to bring jimmy anywhere near them crooked vultures. Whatever happened between jones and page during their time together after the o2 was enough to put jimmy into retirement. The vocalist and the timing in which he was introduced seems like a lame excuse. My opinion is that jimmy could not grasp making music at jones's level and didn't want to embarrass himself anymore.

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I'm stunned you guys think Page is no longer capable of creative music output. Maybe he couldn't match Jones for creativeness now, and that a HUGE maybe, but even if so, jamming and just hanging out in a studio, no way Page is not playing with fresh ideas and trying out new things not to mention they could always go back to the start and re-exploring their early blues roots and passions/influences and see what ideas emerge.

I really don't get the 'Page would not keep up' type of assumption. Yeah, not much output of late (10 years gone some might say) but loss of creative desire - that can be down to motivation/circumstance. Ability? - no way.

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1 hour ago, IpMan said:

One thing which has always vexed me is Them Crooked Vultures. Did Jones ever ask Jimmy to come along when he (Jones) went to talk to Grohl & Homme regarding getting together to form a band? Was an offer extended to Jimmy to participate in TCV but he declined?

No, absolutely not and Jimmy never attended a TCV gig either. TCV came about by Grohl bringing himself, JPJ & Homme together, not Jones going to either of them to form a band.

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1 hour ago, IpMan said:

That may be a true statement but not really a fair one. Jones was always the greater musician. Not only the best musician within Led Zep but one of the top 10 musicians in all of rock music. Jones is classically trained and plays a multitude of instruments at an extremely advanced level. Jones in affect is a white Prince in regard to musical ability. Jimmy was / is a guitarist, self taught, and that is what it is. Jimmy was an excellent guitarists but he was not classically taught and only really played the guitar, mandolin, and harmonica. I am sure Jimmy was aware of this from day one and if it did not bother him in Zeppelin I doubt it would bother him now. I assume the reason why Page / Jones group never happened is because Page was obsessed with a Zep reunion tour and nothing else. One thing which has always vexed me is Them Crooked Vultures. Did Jones ever ask Jimmy to come along when he (Jones) went to talk to Grohl & Homme regarding getting together to form a band? Was an offer extended to Jimmy to participate in TCV but he declined?

Page had a dig at Jones in his "On this day" section on his website, when he talked about their Wembley cameo at the Foos' gig.

Next thing I heard Jones had formed the Crooked Vultures with Grohl. I'm paraphrasing but that was more or less the quote.

So according to Page, he was bypassed.

Maybe it was a bit of revenge from Jones after they forgot his phone number for the P/P reunion.

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18 minutes ago, rm2551 said:

I'm stunned you guys think Page is no longer capable of creative music output.

I'll go one further...vast lunar landscape...bone dry.

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1 minute ago, Boleskinner said:

Page had a dig at Jones in his "On this day" section on his website, when he talked about their Wembley cameo at the Foos' gig.

Next thing I heard Jones had formed the Crooked Vultures with Grohl. I'm paraphrasing but that was more or less the quote.

So according to Page, he was bypassed.

Maybe it was a bit of revenge from Jones after they forgot his phone number for the P/P reunion.

Or maybe JPJ (and everyone else in the world) already knew Page was/is so stuck in the past artistically that another shot at a "new project" would be futile and a waste of time. Bear in mind he and JPJ had already tried to do something together for several months after the 02 reunion and it amounted to nothing. 

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2 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

Or maybe JPJ (and everyone else in the world) already knew Page was/is so stuck in the past artistically that another shot at a "new project" would be futile and a waste of time. Bear in mind he and JPJ had already tried to do something together for several months after the 02 reunion and it amounted to nothing. 

It amounted to nothing in the sense that they could't decide on a way forward without Plant, but artistically it could have been sensational. We don't know, unless you have heard tapes of the the new material they were working on?

All I know is that Tyler complained there was no "hits" in the songs they were working on, suggesting the material wasn't verse-chorus fodder, which to me is actually a good thing.

Edited by Boleskinner

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8 hours ago, Boleskinner said:

Artistically it could have been sensational. 

All I know is that Tyler complained there was no "hits" in the songs they were working on, suggesting the material wasn't verse-chorus fodder, which to me is actually a good thing.

...and if my Aunt had nuts she could have been my Uncle. Look, I'm a bottom line guy and the currency I deal in is reality. The bottom line here is Page/JPJ/Jason amounted to nothing. Reading into Steven Tyler's comments doesn't change the bottom line. 

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I've always thought that whatever creative output Page has had the past couple of decades is probably all an extension of where he would have liked to take Led Zeppelin from 1981 onwards had September 1980 never occurred. Led Zeppelin was what he was born to do. Even those Page/Plant tours, Jimmy was at his absolute best playing Led Zeppelin songs. If anything, whenever he goes, I wouldn't be terribly shocked if all sorts of recorded guitar material came out that is in the exact spirit of Zeppelin, or something close to it. 

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 All of  the former members of Led Zeppelin are entering a time in their lives where their creativity is gone or nearly gone.

  But if Jimmy page wanted to play  in front of an audience he certainly could do so. A musician of his caliber does not forget how to play the guitar. There are plenty of projects he could participate in without it being around a new bunch of new material.  

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How true. Bonzo besides total greatness was also Jimmy's rhythm guitar. Check out live Yardbirds Page only on

guitar.. the 'birds had a decent rhythm section, but almost a joke compared to Zep. Page played good to excellent

live with the 'birds, but great as with Zep., totally not. Bonzo and Page would push each other live, to legendary effect.

 

Page's current ability(creatively, technically) a bit murky. What about his excellent, almost no mistakes stint with

Roy Harper 2011 ?? But the old man would sign on the dotted line yesterday if it was a "Evening with Led Zep Music"

50 city US tour with Plant & JPJ. Of course what I just said has been said at least 20-30 times here. Ha Ha Ha.

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8 hours ago, jasonlovesvids said:

 All of  the former members of Led Zeppelin are entering a time in their lives where their creativity is gone or nearly gone.

  But if Jimmy page wanted to play  in front of an audience he certainly could do so. A musician of his caliber does not forget how to play the guitar. There are plenty of projects he could participate in without it being around a new bunch of new material.  

I quite disagree. John Paul Jones has never been better than he is now, in either his musicianship or creativity. Just wait until he releases The Goast Sonata until you make that judgement. Robert  has continued to be creative as well even though his path has not been in expectation with many of his long time fans. Jimmy has been the only one who retired, which is fine too. I just wish he would comes to grip with it and stop leading naive people on.

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A lot of people on this thread surmising that Jimmy is  creatively dead because he hasn't released anything new.

The bottom line is we don't know the quality of the demos he's done or what the new material "Zep" come up with after the O2 was like.

There's a difference between not being able to find the right vehicle to express himself and being creatively dead.

As for JPJ and Plant, they are enjoying an Indian summer of creativity. Plant's stock has never been higher and JPJ, as always, is doing a diverse range of projects.

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1 hour ago, Boleskinner said:

 

The bottom line is we don't know the quality of the demos he's done or what the new material "Zep" come up with after the O2 was like.

But we to know that they chose to shelve it.

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