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ThreeSticks

Led Zeppelin in the months following Bonzo's passing

152 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, babysquid said:

I can't quit you from coda was from the RAH. The actual show not the rehearsal, this has been documented by Dave Lewis. We're gonna groove basic track and vocals are from RAH with overdubs added at Sol studios for the release.

How strange that the original liner notes are wrong. It should be just said he, uh, couldn't remember, right.

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12 minutes ago, Mercurious said:

How strange that the original liner notes are wrong. It should be just said he, uh, couldn't remember, right.

the liner notes were deliberately misleading. page didn't want us (or maybe (Atlantic)) to know that We're Gonna Groove and ICQYB were live recordings

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21 hours ago, ThreeSticks said:

By the way, did Page ever give an explanation as to why he didn't include "(Hey Hey) What Can I Do)" on to the original Coda LP? There was certainly enough room for the track, as well as the Led Zep I outtakes. The original Coda album was around 30 minutes.

'Baby Come On Home' was missing presumed lost until 1991, when it was discovered (allegedly) in a refuse bin outside Olympic Studios during renovations, so obviously that couldn't have been included on Coda  in 1982, but both 'Hey, Hey, What Can I Do' and 'Sugar Mama' could and indeed should have been included... Jimmy even remixed the latter for inclusion, but dropped it at the last minute.

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Posted (edited)

Those deceiving liner notes!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coda_(album

Quote

 "I Can't Quit You Baby" is taken from the same concert as "We're Gonna Groove" but was listed as a rehearsal in the original liner notes. The recording was edited to remove the overall "live" feel: the crowd noise as well as the beginning and ending of the song were deleted. Crowd tracks were muted on the multitrack mixdown on this recording as with "We're Gonna Groove."

"We're Gonna Groove" opens the album and, according to the album notes, was recorded at Morgan Studios in June 1969. It was later acknowledged to have come from a January 1970 concert at the Royal Albert Hall, with the guitar parts overdubbed and the original guitar part removed—this can be heard in the original Royal Albert Hall show on 9 January 1970. This song was used to open a number of concerts on their 1969 tours and was originally intended to be recorded for inclusion in Led Zeppelin II

Edited by ThreeSticks

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I find the explanation for ICQUB truthful now, but in the end totally ridiculous. I thought it was live, othermusicians

thought it live. Like the similar oddness with WGG, could this be some royalty issue ?? Jimmy at this time also was

likely out of his skull with the addictions, maybe he simply wasn't thinking straight. Just like the strange non-inclusion

of the various other songs that could have been included on Coda.

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On 2/26/2017 at 9:39 AM, Mook said:

So we should just let some people earn 100 times what other people earn?

No, capitalism is destroying the World and people defending it are the problem.

Screw  communism, screw  socialism. 

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35 minutes ago, JeffLZ said:

Screw  communism, screw  socialism. 

Screw opportunism!

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Anyway, back to the topic. I imagine Plant was hardest hit by Bonzo's death as they were truly close friends and he must've felt really devasted since he lost his son just three years before. Did he talk much , in an open way about that time immediately after Bonzos death? I don't recall reading anything too detailed in books. I'm sure some of the more literate fans here can point to some references. 

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Robert at the very least was able to get on musically a lot faster than Page was after Bonham's
death.   Jimmy between 80 and 83 was so sickly :(  Some of the photos taken of Page in
those years are sad to see.  Haha
^_^ I say some and not all because hey sue me,  I can always find 
something appealing about the dude even during those dark years.  


I wonder what Bonham would have done musically if he had lived.  I kind of get the feeling
he would have enjoyed just chillin' at home with Pat and when the call came to revive the
band for a reunion he would have gladly joined in after some rest.  I can't picture him doing a solo
project.  Although his voice in my opinion was quite decent.     

 

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Posted (edited)

Death Wish II? I love that album -- highly underrated and underappreciated record. It was released Feb. 1982, before Pictures at Eleven later that year. I think he misses his singer, and could have found better than Chris Farlowe, but he did it all himself. On the whole I'll take Death Wish II over Pictures (which is a very lonely record, it seems to me) and Principle of Moments.  And there's Coda (1982), the ARMS tour (1983, where Jimmy's playing DW II music plus instrumental Stairway, and with a new guitar sound, surrounded by all these great friends). Then we have Waiting for Jugula (great album w/ Roy Harper, 1984-85) and some folk festival dates with Roy summer of '84.  The work with Roy is top notch, and I would love to have heard a next album from Jimmy and Roy. Roy lost his house in the early 1980s, so the two of them coming together was healthy and beneficial for them both. And they appear to be having fun! 

If we're comparing Robert and Jimmy 1982-84, I think they both seem sad and lost. Jimmy is frail, Robert healthier. Yet they both made good music, and it's a matter of taste I suppose as to whose output was better. I thoroughly enjoyed the Honeydrippers, too, and I wish Robert had involved Jimmy a little more there, though Setzer is a great substitute. But there is no substitute. I saw Robert running away from his past, from Led Zeppelin, too far; while Jimmy ... he ended up mining the past in the Firm, didn't he? But perhaps not deeply enough.

Edited by Mercurious

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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, porgie66 said:

Anyway, back to the topic. I imagine Plant was hardest hit by Bonzo's death as they were truly close friends and he must've felt really devasted since he lost his son just three years before. Did he talk much , in an open way about that time immediately after Bonzos death? I don't recall reading anything too detailed in books. I'm sure some of the more literate fans here can point to some references. 

Plus he was "the guy" who brought Bonzo into LZ. Percy might have felt guilty that by bringing him into the band, it led to his demise. It's like what one of the guys in Lynyrd Skynyrd said about their plane crash.....when a band goes through a tragedy like this, you go through all sorts of weird and twisted emotions that don't make any sense. Deep down Robert knew it wasn't his fault that Bonzo perished, but you think that way while you are grieving. If I had done this, if I had done that - that kind of thing.

Edited by ThreeSticks

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On ‎2‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 9:36 AM, morningson said:

I would tend to agree with IpMan. Plant knew the time was up before Bonham's death and that simply confirmed it.

I have long thought this. Robert Plant is the true keeper of the Zeppelin flame, whether for the right or wrong reasons, depending on your viewpoint. Plant is very keen for the past to remain in the past and to move forward and as a result, the Zeppelin legacy is largely intact save for a few disastrous and ill-advised reunions.

Plant was obviously disillusioned with Zeppelin before the end and seeing as he had lost his boy, who could blame him? The only reason they carried on after Karac was because Bonham talked him round after himself coming under pressure from Grant and possibly Page.

There are elements of his own past in Zeppelin that Plant is not proud of, he has gone on record about his preening and wailing and not liking some of his lyrics (although I think his lyrics in all Zeppelin are great) and maybe that is something to do with his reluctance in reforming properly.

It is well-known that Page and Jones wanted to capitalise on the positive reaction from the 02 concerts and go on the road as Led Zeppelin, but Plant said no. Unbelievably they toyed with touring with a new singer and even held some auditions. Can you imagine if that happened? Led Zeppelin with Steve Tyler on tour? I have nothing against Steve Tyler but NO. Not Led Zeppelin. 

So, anyway, Plant, for better or worse, should be thanked for Zep's legacy.

And Pagey, if you are reading this, an excellent way to preserve a legacy is to release some more DVD's!!!! And don't tell me there is no material - because there is!!!! And if you don't want to look for it because Kenneth Anger is still in the basement then I will go and have a look for you.

I agree look at the fiasco Black Sabbath turned out to be, a revolving door of musicians, at one point Elmo from Sesame Street was auditioned to sing for them. 

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On 2/28/2017 at 11:55 PM, KellyGirl said:

Nope I knew you what you were referring to with Plant. :D  He has shown that he doesn't
need to fall back on his Zeppelin roots to survive in the music world....or has he?
:shifty:   He sure
likes to have his set list be  filled with Zeppelin.   And to be honest I think if he could sing them
like like did 40 years ago he would.  

Okay I need to stop while I'm ahead. We have 1000 threads dedicated to Robert mucking up the
reunion.  I'm sitting firmly on the side that says blame Plant for that.   Even though there was
never a promise ,  somebody has to be the scapegoat and he's the fall guy for me.  Not Page.  
Not Jones

The one thing I would have liked to have seen from Zeppelin if they had taken a hiatus and came
back is the introduction to some extra musicians.  It would always be originally a 4 man group,  but
from time to time a few extra bodies for some songs would not have hurt.  

I am glad they never reformed. You can't recapture past magic. It's like chasing perfection, it's never going to happen no matter how hard you try.

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When we talk about the activity after the LZ disbanding, don't forget XYZ.  How quickly Page jumped right back in, didn't some of the rehearsals take place in 1980, so only a few months after Bonzo passing?

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On 3/3/2017 at 0:24 AM, KellyGirl said:

Robert at the very least was able to get on musically a lot faster than Page was after Bonham's
death.   Jimmy between 80 and 83 was so sickly :(  Some of the photos taken of Page in
those years are sad to see.  Haha
^_^ I say some and not all because hey sue me,  I can always find 
something appealing about the dude even during those dark years.  


I wonder what Bonham would have done musically if he had lived.  I kind of get the feeling
he would have enjoyed just chillin' at home with Pat and when the call came to revive the
band for a reunion he would have gladly joined in after some rest.  I can't picture him doing a solo
project.  Although his voice in my opinion was quite decent.     

 

I wish that Bonham would have just done drum projects, around LZ activity

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34 minutes ago, in_the_evening said:

When we talk about the activity after the LZ disbanding, don't forget XYZ.  How quickly Page jumped right back in, didn't some of the rehearsals take place in 1980, so only a few months after Bonzo passing?

Those sessions began in late February 1981. 

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Speaking about the XYZ project, Page has talked over the years about putting some of that material out. But with Squire's passing, I don't know if it will ever occur. Plus, a couple of the XYZ ideas ended up in other places.

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Hypothetically if everything was well within Led Zeppelin, you would have to ask where would they go musically into the 1980's?

The 1970's had become an embarrassment: the music, fashions, lifestyles, shag pile carpets etc. Everything was about being new: new music styles, computer technology so on. The 70's were fantastic but things move on or get left behind.

There was the New Wave of British Metal like Iron Maiden, New Wave pop bands like Human League, poorly educated Punk rockers. If you were past 30 years old it was over. Many successful rock bands of the 70's did not know how to fit in. Kiss were struggling, Aerosmith, Deep Purple and the Stones likewise. The great irony is that many older bands had improved playing and songwriting wise, with no body in the general public interested.

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17 minutes ago, Dane1968 said:

Hypothetically if everything was well within Led Zeppelin, you would have to ask where would they go musically into the 1980's?

The 1970's had become an embarrassment: the music, fashions, lifestyles, shag pile carpets etc. Everything was about being new: new music styles, computer technology so on. The 70's were fantastic but things move on or get left behind.

There was the New Wave of British Metal like Iron Maiden, New Wave pop bands like Human League, poorly educated Punk rockers. If you were past 30 years old it was over. Many successful rock bands of the 70's did not know how to fit in. Kiss were struggling, Aerosmith, Deep Purple and the Stones likewise. The great irony is that many older bands had improved playing and songwriting wise, with no body in the general public interested.

Some of the top selling LPs in 1980 were The Wall (Pink Floyd), Emotional Rescue (Rolling Stones), The Game (Queen) & Back in Black (AC/DC) so there were plenty of 70s rockers doing well for themselves going into the 80s.

Also worth point out that Deep Purple split up between '76 & '84 & writing off punk rockers as 'poorly educated' is a bit of a sweeping generalisation when a lot of them came out of art schools.

Having said that, I'm of the opinion that some things belong in a certain time & place & I would apply that to Led Zeppelin & the 1970s, I think it's for the best that they broke up & left a pretty untarnished reputation musically.

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writing off punk rockers as 'poorly educated' is a bit of a sweeping generalisation when a lot of them came out of art schools.

 

Quite. Joe Strummer was the son of the British Ambassador to somewhere-or-other.

 

I sometimes think if they had survived into the mid to late 80s, Zeppelin might have gone into a "hard rock with a funk tinge to it" phase. Kind of Chili Peppers before-their-time sort of thing. Those certainly were Jones & Bonzo's influences, and Page's late period guitar tone was to my ears getting thinner and more new wave / funk-ish.

Maybe it was best they finished when they did though. The Stones and the others mentioned sold plenty of records in the 80s, but it was a lot of rock bands' least good decade in creative terms.

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11 hours ago, Mook said:

Some of the top selling LPs in 1980 were The Wall (Pink Floyd), Emotional Rescue (Rolling Stones), The Game (Queen) & Back in Black (AC/DC) so there were plenty of 70s rockers doing well for themselves going into the 80s.

Also worth point out that Deep Purple split up between '76 & '84 & writing off punk rockers as 'poorly educated' is a bit of a sweeping generalisation when a lot of them came out of art schools.

Having said that, I'm of the opinion that some things belong in a certain time & place & I would apply that to Led Zeppelin & the 1970s, I think it's for the best that they broke up & left a pretty untarnished reputation musically.

Good point re albums in 1980. Some other good stuff to come out in that era - Guns n Roses, the Pogues, the reformed Floyd (never reached the standards of the Waters era but still good), the Cult etc

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20 hours ago, ThreeSticks said:

Speaking about the XYZ project, Page has talked over the years about putting some of that material out. But with Squire's passing, I don't know if it will ever occur. Plus, a couple of the XYZ ideas ended up in other places.

Anything worth hearing from those sessions is already available on bootleg. 

 

13 hours ago, Dane1968 said:

Hypothetically if everything was well within Led Zeppelin, you would have to ask where would they go musically into the 1980's?

 

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I understand that, but like many people, I hate the sound of bootlegs. I mean, if it's the only thing available, I will take it. But part of the reason why I was slightly disappointed with the LZ reissues is that I wanted to get a version of "Swan Song" on CD in high fidelity. There was enough room on the Graffiti companion disc for its inclusion. By the way, I love "The Quiet One" from The Who. Bless the Ox. That song was one of the greatest live songs ever by The Who. Townshend's solos were among his best ever when that track was played live. Even during the 1980/81 tours when Pete was wasted.

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Face Dances: man Another Tricky Day for me is one of their best.  And Did You Steal My Money is pretty good too.  Face Dances all around was pretty good.

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"You" from the Ox as well. Great tune. Vicious bass playing. "Did You Steal My Money" is a silly song but one that many rock stars can relate to. The reference to being in a bear pit in "Cache Cache" is true. I guess Pete got so pissed and drugged one night that he passed out in a zoo.

The remixed version of the CD is quite interesting because they cut way more tracks than they needed for the record. "I Like Nightmares" very much captures Pete's frame of mind at the time.

Wait a minute, I guess we are on a Led Zeppelin fan forum...sorry :) Kind of a bad thing to do being that Pete T. hates Led Zeppelin (but likes the guys in the band). But he dislikes everything, so everyone gets the same treatment.

Edited by ThreeSticks

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