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RoundingRover

Why was JPJ disinvited from Page/Plant?

105 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, Brigante said:

when Paul Cook and Steve Jones from the Sex Pistols were interviewed on American radio in 1978, the interviewer asked 'Where's Sid?' and Jones replied 'He's wanking off!'

The difference is, in Sid's case that was probably true.....

 

I disagree it's the same thing as a pisstake. That's just a radio interview, in the context of everyone knowing Sid's musical contribution to the Pistols was virtually zero. This was in the context of JPJ a key part of Zeppelin, very publicly not being invited to a project that then used one of his signature tunes for its title! You couldn't be more disrespectful if you tried. I agree Plant's sense of humour often gets lost in translation, but this was adding insult to injury imo.

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2 minutes ago, 76229 said:

The difference is, in Sid's case that was probably true.....

 

I disagree it's the same thing as a pisstake. That's just a radio interview, in the context of everyone knowing Sid's musical contribution to the Pistols was virtually zero. This was in the context of JPJ a key part of Zeppelin, very publicly not being invited to a project that then used one of his signature tunes for its title! You couldn't be more disrespectful if you tried. I agree Plant's sense of humour often gets lost in translation, but this was adding insult to injury imo.

True, but I laughed my ass off nonetheless.

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3 hours ago, woz70 said:

All Page had to do was pick up the phone and say to Grohl 'about that project you mentioned? I'm interested....', like Jones did.

Jones - proactive, collaborates constantly. I don't think he's into revenge, but I'll bet he appreciates a bit of karma. 

Page - gives off the hermit vibe, waits around for calls and gets disappointed and snarky when no-one does. 

ironic that it's the total opposite of when Zeppelin were formed. Back then, Page was totally proactive, whereas Jones supposedly had to be badgered into phoning JP about his new project by his wife.

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Posted (edited)

Them Crooked Vultures would have been a very different project with Jimmy. 

Not including Jimmy in TCV is hardly the same thing as not including John Paul Jones in P and P either. Jimmy getting worked up about it seems kind of ridiculous.  The Jones Page Jason project had petered out by this point. Besides, JPJ, while not usually as high profile as TCV, always has something going.

Another point .. Robert would always say stuff like "if Page and I were to get back together" or "Page and I are always getting offers to get back together".  He was leaving Jones out of the "what if" scenarios for years before it ever happened.  

One thing positive I do remember was Robert saying he liked how Jones was going about his post Zeppelin career.  This was a litte after JPJ had sat in with Lenny Kravitz. 

Edited by the chase

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30 minutes ago, the chase said:

One thing positive I do remember was Robert saying he liked how Jones was going about his post Zeppelin career.  This was a litte after JPJ had sat in with Lenny Kravitz. 

Are you sure that was a positive statement? with Robert one can never be sure, especially when Lenny Kravitz was in the context. Had he said that after Jones' great production work on the Butthole Surfers album, the Diamanda Galas album or about the Merce at 90 shows at BAMA, we'd know it was positive, maybe. One can't take anything Robert says seriously.

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1 hour ago, SteveAJones said:

The Wembley Stadium jam was June 7, 2008. In Nov/Dec 2008, JPJ was in the states playing various gigs, after which he attended Grohl's 40th birthday party at Medieval Times in Los Angeles in January 2009. Dave purposefully sat JPJ beside Josh Homme. JPJ, Grohl and Homme got together a couple days after the birthday party at Homme's home studio, Baby Duck Studios. Their first jam lasted about thirty minutes. They jammed a second time the following day, and agreed they should form a band. JPJ then returned to England. JPJ returned to Baby Duck Studios in February 2009, and the three began working two weeks on and two weeks off for about eight weeks from noon to 3 am. The rest is history. 

Hmm, doesn't sound like Jones actively pursued Grohl to let him be in his new band.

Sounds more like, as I suspected, Grohl invited JPJ along to a few things which led a jam and the rest happened organically.

More from Grohl's side than JPJ picking up the phone and initiating things.

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1 hour ago, 76229 said:

ironic that it's the total opposite of when Zeppelin were formed. Back then, Page was totally proactive, whereas Jones supposedly had to be badgered into phoning JP about his new project by his wife.

I've often wondered just how proactive JP was.  His first choice was Terry Reid, who says "can't do it, but check out this chap in Band of Joy",  Page goes to see him and says OK.  Wait, this is a big deal, you're forming a band and the expectations are pretty big...wouldn't you want to check out a few more vocalists while you're at it?  It's not gonna hurt anything to listen to a few more....

Then RP says "take Bonzo as the drummer".  Again, a complete unknown, and you check out no one else.  Not very proactive.  Admittedly, it all worked out smashingly, but  IMO Page seems the type to be led to decisions, not set out to make them.  

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5 minutes ago, in_the_evening said:

I've often wondered just how proactive JP was.  His first choice was Terry Reid, who says "can't do it, but check out this chap in Band of Joy",  Page goes to see him and says OK.  Wait, this is a big deal, you're forming a band and the expectations are pretty big...wouldn't you want to check out a few more vocalists while you're at it?  It's not gonna hurt anything to listen to a few more....

Then RP says "take Bonzo as the drummer".  Again, a complete unknown, and you check out no one else.  Not very proactive.  Admittedly, it all worked out smashingly, but  IMO Page seems the type to be led to decisions, not set out to make them.  

The expeditious manner in which the band formed probably had more to do with the Scandinavian tour being just weeks away rather than Page's lack of pro-activeness. Plant and Bonham being brought in on a salary suggests he was keeping his options open if it didn't work out.  

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1 hour ago, in_the_evening said:

I've often wondered just how proactive JP was.  His first choice was Terry Reid, who says "can't do it, but check out this chap in Band of Joy",  Page goes to see him and says OK.  Wait, this is a big deal, you're forming a band and the expectations are pretty big...wouldn't you want to check out a few more vocalists while you're at it?  It's not gonna hurt anything to listen to a few more....

Then RP says "take Bonzo as the drummer".  Again, a complete unknown, and you check out no one else.  Not very proactive.  Admittedly, it all worked out smashingly, but  IMO Page seems the type to be led to decisions, not set out to make them.  

Did they check out no one else though? Peter Grant sounded Clem Cattini out for the drum stool, but Clem had a mountain of session gigs lined up & preferred to stay with that.

Aynsley Dunbar said he was "offered the chance to join the New Yardbirds" as well. Page and Grant travelled up to Bonzo's flat in Dudley to persuade him to join up, which is fairly proactive.

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, 76229 said:

The difference is, in Sid's case that was probably true.....

 

I disagree it's the same thing as a pisstake. That's just a radio interview, in the context of everyone knowing Sid's musical contribution to the Pistols was virtually zero. This was in the context of JPJ a key part of Zeppelin, very publicly not being invited to a project that then used one of his signature tunes for its title! You couldn't be more disrespectful if you tried. I agree Plant's sense of humour often gets lost in translation, but this was adding insult to injury imo.

Exactly. It was a total asshole move on Plants part to publicly say that about Jones after he was left out of the project, and replaced by Plants bassist and keyboardist on top of it?. How people minimize that really surprises me. Does anybody think JPJ found Plants comment funny?

I seriously fucking doubt it.

Edited by blindwillie127

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Jesus. All the butthurt feelings around here. Look...the only thing I thought was wrong of Plant was him not informing John Paul Jones personally of what was going down instead of letting JPJ find out thru the news media.

But you people need to remember one thing...this was not a Led Zeppelin project, and it never was intended to be one.

MTV approached Robert Plant, the solo artist coming off three of his best albums (Now and Zen, Manic Nirvana, Fate of Nations), and asked him to do one of their Unplugged shows as Robert Plant, the solo artist. 

MTV did not say "Hey reunite Led Zeppelin". So get the fuck over it already.

Robert Plant had his band already at that time and could have done a regular Unplugged gig and I guess nobody's feelings would have been hurt. But because Jimmy Page was invited, it took on this whole other aura and now everyone wants to jump on Plant's back.

If you are so concerned about Jones' feelings, why don't you equally castigate Jimmy Page? He could have just as easily picked up a phone and called Jones to let him know what was happening. 

It should be obvious to anyone well-versed in Zeppelin history, and Plant himself explained many times why Jones wasn't part of the MTV thing. The wounds from Zeppelin were still very deep and raw and Plant wanted to dip back in those waters very carefully...baby steps.

And look at the bright side...we got Jones with Diamanda Galas and the Zooma and Thunderthief albums.

But yes, Plant and Page should have informed Jones ahead of time as a courtesy.

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Posted (edited)

29 minutes ago, Strider said:

 

 

 

If you are so concerned about Jones' feelings, why don't you equally castigate Jimmy Page? He could have just as easily picked up a phone and called Jones to let him know what was happening. 

 

 

My post had nothing to do with JPJ being notified about the project between Page & Plant doing LZ songs that he was left out of. And who the fuck are you to tell me what "to get the fuck over already"? Really? Get a fucking grip on yourself dude and be careful how you speak to people. 

 

 

Edited by blindwillie127

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Because Plant acted like an arrogant ass and Jimmy did not.

That would be my guess. 

Watch Robert at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame ceremony and tell me you don't get douche chills. 

But i agree and I'll go one further. Jimmy should have been the one to call John Paul Jones and tell him what was going on. 

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1 hour ago, Strider said:

Jesus. All the butthurt feelings around here. Look...the only thing I thought was wrong of Plant was him not informing John Paul Jones personally of what was going down instead of letting JPJ find out thru the news media.

But you people need to remember one thing...this was not a Led Zeppelin project, and it never was intended to be one.

MTV approached Robert Plant, the solo artist coming off three of his best albums (Now and Zen, Manic Nirvana, Fate of Nations), and asked him to do one of their Unplugged shows as Robert Plant, the solo artist. 

MTV did not say "Hey reunite Led Zeppelin". So get the fuck over it already.

Robert Plant had his band already at that time and could have done a regular Unplugged gig and I guess nobody's feelings would have been hurt. But because Jimmy Page was invited, it took on this whole other aura and now everyone wants to jump on Plant's back.

If you are so concerned about Jones' feelings, why don't you equally castigate Jimmy Page? He could have just as easily picked up a phone and called Jones to let him know what was happening. 

It should be obvious to anyone well-versed in Zeppelin history, and Plant himself explained many times why Jones wasn't part of the MTV thing. The wounds from Zeppelin were still very deep and raw and Plant wanted to dip back in those waters very carefully...baby steps.

And look at the bright side...we got Jones with Diamanda Galas and the Zooma and Thunderthief albums.

But yes, Plant and Page should have informed Jones ahead of time as a courtesy.

Total agreement on this but it seems from what I've seen of this forum, people are always ready to blame Robert for everything and bc Jimmy wants to do nothing original but Zep reissues and reform the band, he is without any faults. 

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21 minutes ago, tenyearsgone21 said:

Total agreement on this but it seems from what I've seen of this forum, people are always ready to blame Robert for everything and bc Jimmy wants to do nothing original but Zep reissues and reform the band, he is without any faults. 

Jimmy catches more grief on here for the remasters and little to no solo activity than Robert does on every other issue combined. 

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8 minutes ago, the chase said:

Jimmy catches more grief on here for the remasters and little to no solo activity than Robert does on every other issue combined. 

Okay maybe so - not been here actively that long to say. 

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Posted (edited)

13 hours ago, Boleskinner said:

Interested to know where you read that Jones pro-actively called Grohl after the Wembley appearance? 

Never read that anywhere before.

What's the source?

 

Perhaps not a literal 'call' (but you never know...), but the point I'm trying to make is that  Jones obviously networks with people.  He's always doing something, working with new people, getting up on stage and jamming, collaborating, producing, writing, arranging, experimenting, and obviously says 'Yes' quite a bit to the idea of working.  Grohl was champing at the bit to work with JP & JPJ.  JPJ was/is active and made himself available.  JP was/is not and didn't.
Page won't even get up and jam onstage any more, let alone collaborate with anyone (other than Halfin...).  He's renowned for being reclusive, and he's his own manager, so I bet he's on the phone constantly drumming up interest for new musical projects. 
Not.
The guy has a horde of people who would love to work with him, but nada, zilch, nothing musical (save a couple of noodly minutes in IMGL) that's new in 17 years.  And then he's snarky at Jones for not asking him along?

Edited by woz70

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1 minute ago, tenyearsgone21 said:

Okay maybe so - not been here actively that long to say. 

It's generally true. Yet here we are on a Led Zeppelin forum where the singer doesn't want much to do with Led Zeppelin. There was no excuse for not including Jonesy in Plant-Page, and it just looks silly twenty years later.  30 years later, really -- Robert should have given it up after Shaken 'n Stirred bombed.  As for the thread topic, there's no doubt it was Robert's problem. 

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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, blindwillie127 said:

My post had nothing to do with JPJ being notified about the project between Page & Plant doing LZ songs that he was left out of. And who the fuck are you to tell me what "to get the fuck over already"? Really? Get a fucking grip on yourself dude and be careful how you speak to people. 

 

 

Who says I was even responding to your post? Did I even mention your name? Since you seem to be the one so worked up over this 20 + year-old issue, maybe you need to be the one to get a grip.

I'm totally chill, dude. Have a nice day.

Edited by Strider

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54 minutes ago, Mercurious said:

It's generally true. Yet here we are on a Led Zeppelin forum where the singer doesn't want much to do with Led Zeppelin. There was no excuse for not including Jonesy in Plant-Page, and it just looks silly twenty years later.  30 years later, really -- Robert should have given it up after Shaken 'n Stirred bombed.  As for the thread topic, there's no doubt it was Robert's problem. 

So what he doesn't want much with Zep. They agreed the band was done when Bonham passed. They all agreed. Maybe feelings changed down the line but Robert chose not to revisit Zep full time. I don't know why he's a bad guy but Page hasn't done shit for years except remaster zep records a bunch of times but that's wonderful? I appreciate it but I respect Robert for doing his own thing more. And just cause Shaken wasn't his finest hour I wouldn't put down what he did following which I think was some of his best work. 

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Posted (edited)

48 minutes ago, tenyearsgone21 said:

So what he doesn't want much with Zep. They agreed the band was done when Bonham passed. They all agreed. Maybe feelings changed down the line but Robert chose not to revisit Zep full time. I don't know why he's a bad guy but Page hasn't done shit for years except remaster zep records a bunch of times but that's wonderful? I appreciate it but I respect Robert for doing his own thing more. And just cause Shaken wasn't his finest hour I wouldn't put down what he did following which I think was some of his best work. 

Some of it was pretty good, once you get past the Tall Cool Devo riff. There was too much other great stuff happening back then to pay Robert much mind. He's been playing Zep for decades now, just not with the guys who wrote the music, which is just sad. 

Meanwhile, Jimmy's giving us the full BBC sessions,  a slew of Led Zeppelin construction pieces with each reissue, and the Soundtracks box with all of its soundscapes no one had heard before. He's doing exactly what some Zep heads want him to do, and I appreciate it.  He issued a new album of covers yesterday that he produced in 1961 for Chris Farlowe -- 1961 !!! It's a cool piece of history and sounds great. How people slag him for not playing with people like Dave Grohl or rehashing Devo riffs, for example, is beyond me. I don't need him to be anybody or do anything he doesn't feel like doing, and he's already given us a lifetime of the best rock ever made, and more of his genius than we have a right to.

Edited by Mercurious

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57 minutes ago, tenyearsgone21 said:

And just cause Shaken wasn't his finest hour I wouldn't put down what he did following which I think was some of his best work. 

I do appreciate Robert's solo work, too. I know it doesn't sound like it, but I really enjoyed some of it, and he did a great job with that Now and Zen band live.

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1 hour ago, Mercurious said:

Some of it was pretty good, once you get past the Tall Cool Devo riff. There was too much other great stuff happening back then to pay Robert much mind. He's been playing Zep for decades now, just not with the guys who wrote the music, which is just sad. 

Meanwhile, Jimmy's giving us the full BBC sessions,  a slew of Led Zeppelin construction pieces with each reissue, and the Soundtracks box with all of its soundscapes no one had heard before. He's doing exactly what some Zep heads want him to do, and I appreciate it.  He issued a new album of covers yesterday that he produced in 1961 for Chris Farlowe -- 1961 !!! It's a cool piece of history and sounds great. How people slag him for not playing with people like Dave Grohl or rehashing Devo riffs, for example, is beyond me. I don't need him to be anybody or do anything he doesn't feel like doing, and he's already given us a lifetime of the best rock ever made, and more of his genius than we have a right to.

I don't expect anything from any of them. It's a little sad Jimmy hasn't done anything new and keeps "promising" he's working on stuff but he owes us nothing. Jimmy did a whole tour of Zep stuff with the Black Crowns. That's fine - it's his music as it is Robert's and John Paul's so again, I've no problem with any of the including it in their own shows. 

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Posted (edited)

This topic has spun thru my head many times, too, but I always come back to the simplest explanation. Its just the way people are: prone to mistakes, slow to correct them, and awkward in execution. (Page/Plant) Further, people are usually easier to offend than we imagine, and slower to forgive than we hope. (Jones)

When the whole Page/Plant thing got underway, those two would be anxious to get started, but wary about Jone's feelings. (FEELINGS? Oh, no.) So, they drag their feet, hoping to avoid the confrontation. If they call, it might get uncomfortable, emotional. No man wants to deal with that, particularly with a buddy...he'll understand, it'll be fine. It's amazing the things you can convince yourself of in order to get out of an unpleasant task. Then, equally amazing how simple it is to see you were wrong, in hindsight.

Then, it the midst of everything, some reporter has to throw a wrench (spanner) in things. Quick, a joke! "He's parking the car." (See? We didn't forget him, we're still mate's, nothing to worry about) I'm certainly not above falling  in to that bad decision. I'm also sure that had I been JPJ sitting at home watching my bandmates re-take the throne without me that I'd have been mad, hurt, and felt slighted and mistreated. 

Edited by Sheik Paladin

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14 minutes ago, Sheik Paladin said:

This topic has spun thru my head many times, too, but I always come back to the simplest explanation. Its just the way people are: prone to mistakes, slow to correct them, and awkward in execution. (Page/Plant) Further, people are usually easier to offend than we imagine, and slower to forgive than we hope. (Jones)

When the whole Page/Plant thing got underway, those two would be anxious to get started, but wary about Jone's feelings. (FEELINGS? Oh, no.) So, they drag their feet, hoping to avoid the confrontation. If they call, it might get uncomfortable, emotional. No man wants to deal with that, particularly with a buddy...he'll understand, it'll be fine. It's amazing the things you can convince yourself of in order to get out of an unpleasant task. Then, equally amazing how simple it is to see you were wrong, in hindsight.

THIS x 100.

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