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RoundingRover

Why was JPJ disinvited from Page/Plant?

105 posts in this topic

All this going back and forth is very interesting. But also sad and ridiculous, considering all the potentially great

collaborations and possibilities lost. Seems like no one talks to anyone else( although I thought Jimmy and Robert were

spotted looking rather friendly numerous times outside the courthouse in the STH lawsuit).

I think it is worthwhile to put the microscope more on Jimmy, because obviously with him you're damned if you do,

and damned if you don't.If he actually spent a while crafting an hour worth of non Zep sounding excellent material,

you may even see Plant back. And even not, there would be no shortage of  great musicians breaking down his door.

AAhh... sorry the acid kicked in halfway thru my Po!.&@st. PO#>ST.

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4 hours ago, Sheik Paladin said:

This topic has spun thru my head many times, too, but I always come back to the simplest explanation. Its just the way people are: prone to mistakes, slow to correct them, and awkward in execution. (Page/Plant) Further, people are usually easier to offend than we imagine, and slower to forgive than we hope. (Jones)

When the whole Page/Plant thing got underway, those two would be anxious to get started, but wary about Jone's feelings. (FEELINGS? Oh, no.) So, they drag their feet, hoping to avoid the confrontation. If they call, it might get uncomfortable, emotional. No man wants to deal with that, particularly with a buddy...he'll understand, it'll be fine. It's amazing the things you can convince yourself of in order to get out of an unpleasant task. Then, equally amazing how simple it is to see you were wrong, in hindsight.

Then, it the midst of everything, some reporter has to throw a wrench (spanner) in things. Quick, a joke! "He's parking the car." (See? We didn't forget him, we're still mate's, nothing to worry about) I'm certainly not above falling  in to that bad decision. I'm also sure that had I been JPJ sitting at home watching my bandmates re-take the throne without me that I'd have been mad, hurt, and felt slighted and mistreated. 

Pretty spot-on summation. It amazes me the way people get bent out of shape over Plant's "parking the car" joke. 

At this point...10 years on from the 02 reunion and in their 70s...they can each do whatever the hell they want. I don't feel they owe me anything or are obligated to do anything together. If Robert wants to go off and make music with Galaxian Yak-herders, fine. If Jimmy just wants to travel the world drinking Mint Juleps, fine. If John Paul Jones wants to create an opera using an orchestra of 88 basses, fine.

If each of them has various feelings, pro or con, regarding their time in Led Zeppelin, fine. That is their prerogative...none of us knows what it was like to be in that band, we have not walked in their shoes. Especially Plant's, who nearly lost his family and himself in 1975, did lose his son in 1977, and his best mate in 1980.

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As an American, I understand it is sometimes difficult for us to grasp some types of British humor, but I feel that Plant's "He's out parking the car" (paraphrasing) jab was no more cruel than Jones' "I'm glad you finally remembered my number" (paraphrasing) jab.  I think that's just the type of relationship these guys have.

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2 hours ago, Stryder1978 said:

As an American, I understand it is sometimes difficult for us to grasp some types of British humor, but I feel that Plant's "He's out parking the car" (paraphrasing) jab was no more cruel than Jones' "I'm glad you finally remembered my number" (paraphrasing) jab.  I think that's just the type of relationship these guys have.

Yep, the subtle differences of temperament are hard to predict. I think the "parking" bit is actually pretty quick witted, and it wouldn't have bothered me. I certainly don't think Plant intended any ill will. Like I mentioned, I feel like Plant was trying to convey that Jones would always be part of the circle, he just wan elsewhere at the moment.

In hindsight, Jones (privately) felt cold-shouldered, and the quip hit the quick. (sounds like something Plant would say)

Jones phone number jab at the HOF was probably good medicine for all of them.

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no problem with not including him. but they shouldnt have named the album no quarter, come on. and they performed it on the '98 tour in its original form, why play jonesy's signature song without him?????? very disrespectful. 

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Posted (edited)

I guess.  The bottom line is they're good now..

The "parking the car" line never bothered me much either.. It's just another one of Robert Plant's goofy, odd one liners.. Watch JPJ  on the David Letterman appearance and tell me his sense of humor isn't a little on the odd side as well.. 

Speaking for myself, I've always been guilty of supporting the underdog.. or the person who I feel was treated unfairly.. f'd over.. which is probably unnecessary in this case.. Even though JPJ was treated disrespectfully more than once..  He's a big boy and doesn't really need me or us to stick up for him.. But Robert did try to nudge him out of important events (Live Aid) and not really put him at the same level of importance as the other 2 surviving members.. which is a load of bollocks.. (going British here).. "Page and I" "Me and Page" blah blah blah... the "parking the car" was minor compared to that constant stance of exclusion. 

 Out of the 3 of them, John Paul Jones has not only maintained his high musical standards, he's improved on them. He is arguably an even better musician now than he was in Zeppelin's heyday. Not sure I'd say the same for Jimmy or Robert. 

Edited by the chase

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16 hours ago, Strider said:

they can each do whatever the hell they want. I don't feel they owe me anything or are obligated to do anything together. If Robert wants to go off and make music with Galaxian Yak-herders, fine. If Jimmy just wants to travel the world drinking Mint Juleps, fine. If John Paul Jones wants to create an opera using an orchestra of 88 basses, fine.

This - absolutely.

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 From  Led Zeppelin on Led Zeppelin interviews and encounters - 

article by Mat Snow

dictated into my phone..

MS: is that why John Paul Jones was not asked? It would have thrown out the chemistry?

 RP: apart from the fact it would be virtually Led Zeppelin and the next person you start talking about is Jason Bonham, which is just so cheesy and ridiculous, the fact is that our thread was this north African thing, was India, was the howlin wolf riffs. We focus together on those manual points, so rather than to confuse the issue let's see what we still got. So it's nothing at all personal. It's just that at this point in time you've got to get a result quickly to know if it's worth it.

JP: We were gaining so much momentum from the loops and working with Charlie and Michael, that quite honestly I for one wasn't thinking John Paul Jones. I was thinking about what we were getting together between the two of us and the rest of the band. It was its own thing before all of that started to become an issue.

RP: Jonesey, I really like what he does in the angles he employs in the projects he works on, which are far from the mainstream, and he has a great career in that respect. But I didn't think it was necessary for us to .... this is the pressure thing again. 

JP: we are working together in all of a sudden everyone's saying John Paul Jones ought to be there.

RP: so anyway, it's good luck John, and maybe will all get together somewhere down the line.

JP: yeah in the future.

RP: but right now this thing is growing so much. We were about another nine songs written from a four piece angle.

---

MS: returning, briefly to the exchange of messages in the press. For resuming your partnership, do you two gentlemen agree to disagree about Mr. Coverdale?

JP: i'll let you handle that.

RP: no no. He's your mate. Ha ha ha!

JP: well, I am not going to answer that question. 

RP: that's very very well done you. You've come on a bundle!

JP: haha. 

RP: and I am not going to either.

MS: how nice that there is a diplomatic accord here. 

RP: well, I think he's a fucking idiot. Horses for courses: I worked with Phil Johnstone (Roberts man musical collaborator in the late 80s )– nobody's perfect. 

JP: see what happens when you're already loose and for too long?

--- 

 

 

Edited by the chase

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6 hours ago, the chase said:

RP: well, I think he's a fucking idiot. Horses for courses: I worked with Phil Johnstone (Roberts man musical collaborator in the late 80s )– nobody's perfect. 

 

So RP doesn't think much of Phil Johnstone, is that what he is saying?

this may come across as harsh, but my God is Page a pussy when it comes to defending someone like Coverdale, when it might offend Plant.

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8 hours ago, in_the_evening said:

So RP doesn't think much of Phil Johnstone, is that what he is saying?

this may come across as harsh, but my God is Page a pussy when it comes to defending someone like Coverdale, when it might offend Plant.

I'm still stunned that Robert so publicly threw Phil Johnstone under the bus like that. Johnstone was responsible for one of his biggest hits, Heaven Knows, and contributed to many others. By "horses for courses", I think Robert's suggesting that out of necessity they each found themselves collaborating with musical partners they otherwise would not have. 

Edited by SteveAJones

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That's typical Robert. Dismissing former collaborators. And even feeling a bit embarrassed going back to Zep, when

the band's operandi was to create a musical and visual juggernaut never seen before or since. As if musical exuberance

in youth or very early middle age is unforgivable and silly.

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5 hours ago, in_the_evening said:

So RP doesn't think much of Phil Johnstone, is that what he is saying?

this may come across as harsh, but my God is Page a pussy when it comes to defending someone like Coverdale, when it might offend Plant.

I'm not sure if he was being entirely serious.  They'd just wrapped the issue up reasonably diplomatically and just as the interviewer points this out he comes out with this. I think it's an attempt at humor. Maybe an off the cuff joke that doesn't translate to the page very well.

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11 hours ago, babysquid said:

I'm not sure if he was being entirely serious.  They'd just wrapped the issue up reasonably diplomatically and just as the interviewer points this out he comes out with this. I think it's an attempt at humor. Maybe an off the cuff joke that doesn't translate to the page very well.

He probably wasn't being serious. 

 I thought Robert's answer about John Paul Jones was honest and made some sense. But it was handled wrong. A call, business meeting, something was called for out of "professional courtesy" as Steve rightly put it, if not a professional obligation.   His one liners and sarcastic wit cause a lot of unnecessary problems and bad feelings.

I find Jimmy Page more disappointing, at least in this interview.. He didn't, from what I gather have any type of issue with David Coverdale. Pleading the 5th was odd and kind of wimpy. 

Edited by the chase

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3 hours ago, the chase said:

He probably wasn't being serious. 

 I thought Robert's answer about John Paul Jones was honest and made some sense. But it was handled wrong. A call, business meeting, something was called for out of "professional courtesy" as Steve rightly put it, if not a professional obligation.   His one liners and sarcastic wit cause a lot of unnecessary problems and bad feelings.

I find Jimmy Page more disappointing, at least in this interview.. He didn't, from what I gather have any type of issue with David Coverdale. Pleading the 5th was odd and kind of wimpy. 

Of course this is a transcription and all the subtle nuances and inflections may be lost including Page's. On the other hand these guys are old hands at this and should know how the game plays...

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On 3/18/2017 at 10:15 AM, the chase said:

 From  Led Zeppelin on Led Zeppelin interviews and encounters - 

article by Mat Snow

dictated into my phone..

MS: is that why John Paul Jones was not asked? It would have thrown out the chemistry?

 RP: apart from the fact it would be virtually Led Zeppelin and the next person you start talking about is Jason Bonham, which is just so cheesy and ridiculous, the fact is that our thread was this north African thing, was India, was the howlin wolf riffs. We focus together on those manual points, so rather than to confuse the issue let's see what we still got. So it's nothing at all personal. It's just that at this point in time you've got to get a result quickly to know if it's worth it.

JP: We were gaining so much momentum from the loops and working with Charlie and Michael, that quite honestly I for one wasn't thinking John Paul Jones. I was thinking about what we were getting together between the two of us and the rest of the band. It was its own thing before all of that started to become an issue.

RP: Jonesey, I really like what he does in the angles he employs in the projects he works on, which are far from the mainstream, and he has a great career in that respect. But I didn't think it was necessary for us to .... this is the pressure thing again. 

JP: we are working together in all of a sudden everyone's saying John Paul Jones ought to be there.

RP: so anyway, it's good luck John, and maybe will all get together somewhere down the line.

JP: yeah in the future.

RP: but right now this thing is growing so much. We were about another nine songs written from a four piece angle.

---

MS: returning, briefly to the exchange of messages in the press. For resuming your partnership, do you two gentlemen agree to disagree about Mr. Coverdale?

JP: i'll let you handle that.

RP: no no. He's your mate. Ha ha ha!

JP: well, I am not going to answer that question. 

RP: that's very very well done you. You've come on a bundle!

JP: haha. 

RP: and I am not going to either.

MS: how nice that there is a diplomatic accord here. 

RP: well, I think he's a fucking idiot. Horses for courses: I worked with Phil Johnstone (Roberts man musical collaborator in the late 80s )– nobody's perfect. 

JP: see what happens when you're already loose and for too long?

--- 

 

 

Was this from Mojo magazine? Matt Snow is a regular contributor there.

What's the rift about between Robert and Phil Johnstone?

Edited by Strider

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4 minutes ago, Strider said:

Was this from Mojo magazine? Matt Snow is a regular contributor there.

Yes. Originally published December 1994. Interview took place 9/29/1994

Yesterday, I picked up a book called Led Zeppelin on Led Zeppelin interviews and encounters.  

It contains interviews through the years, including the Mojo interview. 

Edited by the chase

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2 minutes ago, the chase said:

Yes. Originally published December 1994. Interview took place 9/29/1994

Yesterday, I picked up a book called Led Zeppelin on Led Zeppelin interviews and encounters.  

It contains interviews through the years, including the Mojo interview. 

What is the publishing date on this Led Zeppelin on Zeppelin book? Brand new or from a few years back?

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Just now, Strider said:

What is the publishing date on this Led Zeppelin on Zeppelin book? Brand new or from a few years back?

2014 edited by Hank Bordowitz

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17 hours ago, the chase said:

He probably wasn't being serious. 

 I thought Robert's answer about John Paul Jones was honest and made some sense. But it was handled wrong. A call, business meeting, something was called for out of "professional courtesy" as Steve rightly put it, if not a professional obligation.   His one liners and sarcastic wit cause a lot of unnecessary problems and bad feelings.

I find Jimmy Page more disappointing, at least in this interview.. He didn't, from what I gather have any type of issue with David Coverdale. Pleading the 5th was odd and kind of wimpy. 

they're going to stay on the same page as much as possible in any interview, but it's all BS.  Robert just wanted to use his guys and maintain control. Just watched the entire 10/3/1995 blue ray show from Irvine, CA -- Robert actually makes a Herman's Hermits crack in his stage banter, his usual poke at Jones. It's all too much.  I know, someone will say it's all part of Robert's sense of humor, and that these are good=natured jokes --- but the guy he's trying to jive with isn't there!!  It's just too much. His knocks about replacing the hurdy gurdy player (Eaton) right before his solo also come off as a bit on the mean side. He's got a rotten side, that much seeps through. 

And what's he talking about, new stuff? It's entirely Led Zeppelin with some different arrangements & orchestration. To say Page-Plant was a project unto itself is just semantics, PR lawyering by a singer who lacks sincerity. I passed on a couple of chances to get tickets for this tour because there was no Jonesy. I missed an amazing show but I don't regret it one bit.

 

Edited by Mercurious

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Why should Jimmy have had an issue with Coverdale in that interview, since he wasn't shackled into that project ??

I guess you could say Jimmy should have had an issue then with Paul Rodgers. Jimmy had much praise for Paul's

voice, but said a few times he wanted to attempt some more adventurous musical terrain, which was done a little bit,

but it was kind of implied that Paul wanted to stay in his comfort zone.

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On 3/18/2017 at 9:40 PM, SteveAJones said:

I'm still stunned that Robert so publicly threw Phil Johnstone under the bus like that. Johnstone was responsible for one of his biggest hits, Heaven Knows, and contributed to many others. By "horses for courses", I think Robert's suggesting that out of necessity they each found themselves collaborating with musical partners they otherwise would not have. 

There's that rotten side of Robert again, hahaha.  The "he's a fucking idiot" comment is a helluva blurt, if that's what he thinks of Coverdale.  The way he rounds that up, though, the "he" in "he's a fucking idiot" is probably Page for working with Coverdale, not Coverdale for being one, despite the "can hardly wait any longer/feelings growing stronger" lyrical banalities.  The writer interviewer might have clarified this for us, since at first glance it reads like he's calling Coverdale an idiot, though he's likely implying that he and Page were idiots for working with Johnstone and Coverdale. Oh, that Robert, hahaha.  He's managed to call four people idiotic, himself included, even as Page is refusing to answer the question!! 

Edited by Mercurious

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As much as I like and respect Robert he sure does talk some shit, and, his prior musical collaborators typically do not remember the times fondly and have an open dislike for Robert (Robbie Blunt & Phil Johnstone come to mind).

I am beginning to believe Robert changing bands every few albums may have more to do with his personality than with him wanting to pursue different musical directions.

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I was totally unaware that Plant and Johnstone had a falling out...any media on it?

I just wish Page had said something along the lines of "during my career I've worked with many musicians, and David was another that I worked with" or something....instead it's like "oh jeez, I better be careful what I say around Robert or he will walk".

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12 hours ago, Mithril46 said:

Why should Jimmy have had an issue with Coverdale in that interview, since he wasn't shackled into that project ??

I guess you could say Jimmy should have had an issue then with Paul Rodgers. Jimmy had much praise for Paul's

voice, but said a few times he wanted to attempt some more adventurous musical terrain, which was done a little bit,

but it was kind of implied that Paul wanted to stay in his comfort zone.

I don't think Page ever had an issue with DC.  Which is why it was surprising he didn't say just that.  

I agree with the other posters that  he didn't want to upset RP by saying anything positive about the Coverdale Page project.. 

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It's pretty obvious Robert's ego slowly started to balloon starting soon after Zep up to the great "Fate of Nations", and

went atomic afterwards. There is a story that pror to the Shaken' n' Stirred album, Plant sent Robbie Blunt a guitar

synth. Not only did Plant want Blunt to master it, he sent the bill to Blunt($2000). Now you know a bit why some of the

sounds on the album are so cheesy. Even in 85'( even now, actually) guitar synths were toys for guitarists to play

around with at home, and a good keyboard/synth could almost always sound better than a guitar synth, and do 

emulations of other instruments better. And concerning Jimmy. Not slogging other musicians like Robert, Jimmy

retains a certain humbleness and reserve despite his superstar status. Jimmy has made some "musical" lapses of

judgement, but probably looks askance at Robert's self righteous ease of insult of others. Please fix the doubling

thing, if possible.

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