Strider Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Classics? No. Only "Wearing & Tearing" holds up as a complete statement worthy of inclusion on a Zeppelin album. Darlene and Ozone are interesting musical fragments in search of a song. "Poor Tom" is not a drum loop to these ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badgeholder Still Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 People love to hate on "Darlene" but I have no clue what it's missing. It's got an effective riff. It's got a strut that won't quit. It's got a killer tempo change that drives it home. It's got Jimmy nailin' it. The mythology grows that he wasn't "present" and couldn't play at these sessions but he serves this song beautifully. Great solo. It's got the "it" factors, honest energy and true spirit, what really separates them from every wannabe in their shadow. The interplay between the band as a whole is awesome. A united front laying down a tribute to the music that inspired them. I suspect most fans can't accept a Zep rocker driven by piano coupled with Jimmy's thin Fender tone. Their loss. All 3 of these songs are gems. Led Zeppelin having fun playing Rock n Roll. Fussy listeners need not apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boleskinner Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, Badgeholder Still said: People love to hate on "Darlene" but I have no clue what it's missing. It's got an effective riff. It's got a strut that won't quit. It's got a killer tempo change that drives it home. It's got Jimmy nailin' it. The mythology grows that he wasn't "present" and couldn't play at these sessions but he serves this song beautifully. Great solo. It's got the "it" factors, honest energy and true spirit, what really separates them from every wannabe in their shadow. The interplay between the band as a whole is awesome. A united front laying down a tribute to the music that inspired them. I suspect most fans can't accept a Zep rocker driven by piano coupled with Jimmy's thin Fender tone. Their loss. All 3 of these songs are gems. Led Zeppelin having fun playing Rock n Roll. Fussy listeners need not apply. At the end of the day, Darlene is nothing more than a well-played pastiche. It's no Zep classic, like Kashmir or STH, where the band are breaking new musical ground and being super creative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IpMan Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 36 minutes ago, Badgeholder Still said: People love to hate on "Darlene" but I have no clue what it's missing. It's got an effective riff. It's got a strut that won't quit. It's got a killer tempo change that drives it home. It's got Jimmy nailin' it. The mythology grows that he wasn't "present" and couldn't play at these sessions but he serves this song beautifully. Great solo. It's got the "it" factors, honest energy and true spirit, what really separates them from every wannabe in their shadow. The interplay between the band as a whole is awesome. A united front laying down a tribute to the music that inspired them. I suspect most fans can't accept a Zep rocker driven by piano coupled with Jimmy's thin Fender tone. Their loss. All 3 of these songs are gems. Led Zeppelin having fun playing Rock n Roll. Fussy listeners need not apply. I too agree badge, Darlene is a great song. The only part I do not like is the very beginning of Robert's vocals where he just sings "Darlene...wooOOOwooooOO...Darlene." Other than that I love the shit outta this tune. Also, Toor Tom is one of my all time favorite Zep tunes, period. Three reasons; one, Jimmy's picking on this song is unique, he never did this type of style nor got this sound before or after. Two, Robert's lyrics. His little story sounds basic at first but is deeper and much more involved. Three, Jones and Bonham are just tight, moving in a New Orleans type shuffle but with Jones in minor key, slithering around the drum beat. A very contemplative yet groovy tune yet also dark. The NO shuffle pattern Bonzo does is an upbeat grove however Jones moody, changing bassline lends shadow and foreboding. The song is complex yet in a subtle way. One could argue that this is a template for a perfectly written and executed song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badgeholder Still Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 28 minutes ago, Boleskinner said: At the end of the day, Darlene is nothing more than a well-played pastiche. It's no Zep classic, like Kashmir or STH, where the band are breaking new musical ground and being super creative. Right. Nobody's gonna compare it to Kashmir or STH. Not all songs have to break new ground and not all Zep tunes do. But it's effective as an example of a great band having fun and playing well together. As far as i'm concerned as effective as "Communication Breakdown ", "Custard Pie"... any of their straight rockers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badgeholder Still Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 And I think it's pretty clear that Darlene was born in the RnR jams in the 1977 "No Quarters". Looking at it from that perspective, the '77 jams as the ideas being fleshed out and then molded down to the this end result, Darlene even sports a certain polish. These songs carry a stigma as "leftovers", but i never considered "Darlene" unfocused or unfinished or inferior. Maybe a misunderstood black sheep... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boleskinner Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Badgeholder Still said: Right. Nobody's gonna compare it to Kashmir or STH. Not all songs have to break new ground and not all Zep tunes do. But it's effective as an example of a great band having fun and playing well together. As far as i'm concerned as effective as "Communication Breakdown ", "Custard Pie"... any of their straight rockers. The OP did: "What's the general consensus here on these three tracks? I feel like they're honestly truly classic Zep tracks." That's what I was responding to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badgeholder Still Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 26 minutes ago, Boleskinner said: The OP did: "What's the general consensus here on these three tracks? I feel like they're honestly truly classic Zep tracks." That's what I was responding to. The OP didn't reference any songs specifically and classic doesn't have to mean groundbreaking. Is "Rock and Roll" a classic track? I'd say so. It didn't really break any new creative ground and like "Darlene" borrows heavily from another era while staying uniquely Led Zeppelin. No right or wrong answers in this thread. What's classic, what's groundbreaking - it's all subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boleskinner Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 48 minutes ago, Badgeholder Still said: The OP didn't reference any songs specifically Ye he did. title of the thread: WEARING & TEARING, DARLENE, AND OZONE BABY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 3 hours ago, Badgeholder Still said: Right. Nobody's gonna compare it to Kashmir or STH. Not all songs have to break new ground and not all Zep tunes do. But it's effective as an example of a great band having fun and playing well together. As far as i'm concerned as effective as "Communication Breakdown ", "Custard Pie"... any of their straight rockers. Just because one doesn't think a song is a classic does not mean they don't like or enjoy said song. I like the idea and intent of "Darlene" and it definitely had the makings for a fine song if they had had time to work on it for real, instead of as a contract obligation to fill "Coda". If Plant had time to work a little more on the lyrics, and if they had meshed the two musical halves together a little more seamlessly, it would have been a winner for sure. Even as it is, it's one of the better tracks on "Coda". But it's no SIBLY, Fool in the Rain, or Dancing Days. 2 hours ago, Boleskinner said: The OP did: "What's the general consensus here on these three tracks? I feel like they're honestly truly classic Zep tracks." That's what I was responding to. 48 minutes ago, Boleskinner said: Ye he did. title of the thread: WEARING & TEARING, DARLENE, AND OZONE BABY Don't worry. Most of us understood you perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy's Dragon Suit Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Everytime I listen to Darlene, I focus on Bonham. He's the reason why I enjoy the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeSticks Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I have said for years that one of the worst decisions LZ ever made was not putting those tracks on a 3-song EP. Jimmy wanted to do it. I don't know why it didn't pan out. There was too much of a time gap between Presence and ITTOD. The EP would've keep LZ in the spotlight a bit more until the Knebworth shows. Plant loved "Wearing and Tearing" and wanted to put it out as a single as a challenge to the punks. I tend to like "Wearing and Tearing" and "Ozone Baby" quite a bit more than "Darlene," but all three were release-quality tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeSticks Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 delete plz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Avenger Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 On 10/03/2017 at 3:54 AM, Badgeholder Still said: People love to hate on "Darlene" but I have no clue what it's missing. It's got an effective riff. It's got a strut that won't quit. It's got a killer tempo change that drives it home. It's got Jimmy nailin' it. The mythology grows that he wasn't "present" and couldn't play at these sessions but he serves this song beautifully. Great solo. It's got the "it" factors, honest energy and true spirit, what really separates them from every wannabe in their shadow. The interplay between the band as a whole is awesome. A united front laying down a tribute to the music that inspired them. I suspect most fans can't accept a Zep rocker driven by piano coupled with Jimmy's thin Fender tone. Their loss. All 3 of these songs are gems. Led Zeppelin having fun playing Rock n Roll. Fussy listeners need not apply. Spot on! Darlene is not only great, it's significant, because it's pretty much the only later example of them doing in the studio what they could do onstage. It's a phenomenal example of the band playing together. There's no two disparate halves... Each verse builds on the one before it, and by the end they are swinging like few other bands are capable of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithril46 Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Those three Zep tracks aren't my Zep favorites, although at Knebworth 90' Wearing and Tearing was pretty powerful. My question is the jam-out in Darlene; is that a true jam in the studio, or was some of it pieced together ? Page even at that stage was capable of playing a great solo, but as a guitarist myself some licks sound possibly overdubbed or cut in. The solo in Hot Dog is kind of similar, great solo but it does sound like certain phrases were cut in. If Darlene all the way thru is simply a excellent song with a quite worthwhile jam outro , is there any proof of this. Still a excellent song, but I have my suspicions about the piece being a bonafide studio live jam, with no funny business. Nothing wrong with studio trickery, but then it's not what most think as a fully live jam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
in_the_evening Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Three great tracks that showed Zep was doing great stuff at Polar Studios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercurious Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 On 3/8/2017 at 6:54 AM, JTM said: Clearly second rate outtakes. Yep. Darlene was piano slop, Ozone Baby was a bad idea and sounds like something that should have been given to Aerosmith -- I can hear Aerosmith doing both songs really well, fits their doo-woppy big band thing. .... Wearing and Tearing was ... hmm, I kinda dig that track, though it was more or less a simple Godzilla punk slab noise expression of Jimmy and Bonzo's frustrations with punk rock twerps Billy Idol and the Sid Sleaze, and maybe dumb jones-plant ideas like Darlene and Ozone Baby. Godzilla punk slab noise wins!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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