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DanelectroGod

Bill Curbishley: Fired by Page, later let Plant go...

27 posts in this topic

Really good interview

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What was the reason for the bad blood between Page/Plant and Grant? 

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Great find. 

Thanks for sharing.

Looks like Curbishley made a shed load of money for Zep's surviving members in the 90s with that royalties deal.

They should be very thankful, and interesting that Plant, Jones and (Bonham's estate?) agreed to Give Page extra cash unofficially because he was producer.

 Would love to know the point of principle that caused Curbishley to resign as Plant's manager.

Maybe Curbs was a West Brom fan ;-)

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5 hours ago, Boleskinner said:

Great find. 

Thanks for sharing.

Looks like Curbishley made a shed load of money for Zep's surviving members in the 90s with that royalties deal.

They should be very thankful, and interesting that Plant, Jones and (Bonham's estate?) agreed to Give Page extra cash unofficially because he was producer.

 Would love to know the point of principle that caused Curbishley to resign as Plant's manager.

Maybe Curbs was a West Brom fan ;-)

Sounds to me from the interview that Page & Plant fell out with Grant in the early 80's, likely due to the sale of publishing to Atlantic and his drug issues at the time. Think that the deal to sell the publishing may have been Grant's idea and after Page & Plant obliged they later had "sellers remorse" and blamed Grant. Regarding Plant's falling out with Curbishley, from what Curbishley stated, it appears Plant is all about Plant and everyone else is secondary. I also got a bit of a hint that maybe Plant has a rather duplicitous nature in regard to relationships both personal and business and thus Curbishley may have felt slighted somehow.

This is all conjecture of course but from what was both said and not said in the interview, that is what I came away with. Funny because I would not think Jimmy of all people would have held a grudge against Grant for a possible bad business deal due to Grant's drug problems at the time. After all, Jimmy was smacked out as well and is kinda blaming the kettle for being black. Now regarding Jimmy being pissed and firing Curbishley because he believed he should have gotten the lion's share of publishing...oh yeah, that right there is 100% Jimmy.

 

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The comments about Plant are intriguing in the extreme, especially given I believe what Curbishley says 100%, he's that kind of bloke.

I can understand his comments about being driven by not wanting to go back to where he was brought up. Life in Britain after the war was unbelievably grim and in the East End especially grim. I don't know the background in his case but can imagine his association with the Krays came about just by being around East End venues - the Krays had many interests in boxing and nightclubs. Interesting also that Don Arden backed down when confronted with Charlie Kray, shows he recognised when he was up against a genuine threat.

 

Great interview that paints a picture of what it was like in the industry back then. In the early days of rock and roll in Britain, talent managers tended to have come from the "disreputable" end of the London stage industry. And more than a few in the London music industry had connections to gangsters, I think it was Lionel Bart who introduced Grant to John Bindon?

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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, 76229 said:

 

The comments about Plant are intriguing in the extreme, especially given I believe what Curbishley says 100%, he's that kind of bloke.

I can understand his comments about being driven by not wanting to go back to where he was brought up. Life in Britain after the war was unbelievably grim and in the East End especially grim. I don't know the background in his case but can imagine his association with the Krays came about just by being around East End venues - the Krays had many interests in boxing and nightclubs. Interesting also that Don Arden backed down when confronted with Charlie Kray, shows he recognised when he was up against a genuine threat.

 

Great interview that paints a picture of what it was like in the industry back then. In the early days of rock and roll in Britain, talent managers tended to have come from the "disreputable" end of the London stage industry. And more than a few in the London music industry had connections to gangsters, I think it was Lionel Bart who introduced Grant to John Bindon?

What is really funny is Charlie Kray, the eldest of the Kray brothers, though also involved in the periphery of organized crime, did not involve himself in violence, unlike his younger siblings. Charlie was much more of a dandy and bon vivant and used the underworld as a means to an end and if it came to violence to achieve that end, Charlie would typically back down and use his natural charm or pursue another route. Most people really liked dealing with Charlie vs. his younger twin powder-keg brothers and that is why when the police essentially railroaded Charlie and sent him to prison in 97' most agreed it was a frame job. Ronnie & Reggie were psychotic killers who loved the whole underworld lifestyle and everything it brought. Charlie was for the most part a shady businessman with connections.

Either way, Charlie was connected so Curbishley using that connection was likely even more potent a threat than any physical threat someone like Peter Grant could ever muster. That is until Grant lost his mind and hired Bindon, another notorious East End gangster who ran with both the Kray Firm & the Richardson Firm during the 60's. 

Either way, England was no different than the US in regard to the underworld running the music business in the early days. The Mafia ruled the American music business up until the 70's and the Brit's had to deal with the local Firms and their crap.

It was real dog eat dog, bugger em in the arse for musicians up until the 70's...the the corporations took over and buggered em twice as hard but with the backing of the law. Gotta love civility.

Edited by IpMan

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Great article. . thanks for posting:):)

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8 hours ago, IpMan said:

Sounds to me from the interview that Page & Plant fell out with Grant in the early 80's, likely due to the sale of publishing to Atlantic and his drug issues at the time. Think that the deal to sell the publishing may have been Grant's idea and after Page & Plant obliged they later had "sellers remorse" and blamed Grant. Regarding Plant's falling out with Curbishley, from what Curbishley stated, it appears Plant is all about Plant and everyone else is secondary. I also got a bit of a hint that maybe Plant has a rather duplicitous nature in regard to relationships both personal and business and thus Curbishley may have felt slighted somehow.

This is all conjecture of course but from what was both said and not said in the interview, that is what I came away with. Funny because I would not think Jimmy of all people would have held a grudge against Grant for a possible bad business deal due to Grant's drug problems at the time. After all, Jimmy was smacked out as well and is kinda blaming the kettle for being black. Now regarding Jimmy being pissed and firing Curbishley because he believed he should have gotten the lion's share of publishing...oh yeah, that right there is 100% Jimmy.

 

Really makes you think doesn't it Ipman....how much money do people really need? I mean for FFS these guys are loaded anyway

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To be fair, Jimmy was entitled to a little larger cut than the others as Producer, what's wrong with that?  You can't say this guy is one of the great producers in rock history (he is), and hold the opinion that he shouldn't get a little larger cut for that role now, can you?  A producer can make or break a band and his value in that role to Zep is well documented.

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I don't fault Jimmy either the man spent way more time than the others working on their music he earned those extra bucks

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Posted (edited)

What surprised me most was that I thought only Robert sold his publishing. No question Jimmy deserves a bit more. He's made all of them millions more with the ReMasters. 

Robert has never settled on anything since Zeppelin's demise. No lineup has  ever lasted more than 3 albums. I suppose Strange Sensation / Sensational Space Shifters are proving me wrong, but there were some great bands in there that he ended abruptly. It must be tough for a manager to sit by and watch that. 

Edited by the chase

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15 hours ago, mstork said:

To be fair, Jimmy was entitled to a little larger cut than the others as Producer, what's wrong with that?  You can't say this guy is one of the great producers in rock history (he is), and hold the opinion that he shouldn't get a little larger cut for that role now, can you?  A producer can make or break a band and his value in that role to Zep is well documented.

Correct, but according to Curbishley Page received a greater share than the others when he sold his right's in the 80's because he was the producer. Thus, why should he get a second bite at the same apple? Sorry, but to me that does not seem fair. Curbishley did for Page & the boys what they could not do on their own, since Page received the larger payout originally, everything should have been split equally, four ways, going forward.

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What I'm curious about is while this took place, did it drive a wedge that caused the Page/Plant era come to an end. 

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I guess bill did not sign a privacy clause with page and plant in their contracts......or his handshake did not include that either. Either priming for a book, or bullshit, or two sides to every story. 

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5 hours ago, IpMan said:

Correct, but according to Curbishley Page received a greater share than the others when he sold his right's in the 80's because he was the producer. Thus, why should he get a second bite at the same apple? Sorry, but to me that does not seem fair. Curbishley did for Page & the boys what they could not do on their own, since Page received the larger payout originally, everything should have been split equally, four ways, going forward.

Agree. Hence my comment above. You're looking a gift horse in the mouth and still you want more 

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Sounds like a classic conflict of interest: Curbishley was managing both Plant and Page at the time, so giving Page more of the spoondoolies would have irked Plant and vice versa.

I don't agree with Page's stance on wanting more of the royalties split, but I can see his point of view regarding Curbishley.

He was paying Curbishley to represent him, not the other surviving members of Zep, so he would expect him to fight his corner exclusively.

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14 hours ago, IpMan said:

Correct, but according to Curbishley Page received a greater share than the others when he sold his right's in the 80's because he was the producer. Thus, why should he get a second bite at the same apple? Sorry, but to me that does not seem fair. Curbishley did for Page & the boys what they could not do on their own, since Page received the larger payout originally, everything should have been split equally, four ways, going forward.

Agree to disagree.  As long as they are making money off the music of LED Zeppelin, and he was the producer of that music, he should get a larger share IMO.  He put more into it back then and he still does today for that matter.

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That's a really good interview - it rings true, too. And, again, I didn't know that it wasn't just Robert who sold his publishing in the 80s.
Great that new information can come out all these years later.  

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Was the rumour true that Bonzo left no will so maybe the band were in financial lockdown; it could explain the group sale and possibly the release of Coda.

 

 

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6 hours ago, anniemouse said:

Was the rumour true that Bonzo left no will so maybe the band were in financial lockdown; it could explain the group sale and possibly the release of Coda.

 

 

Not sure how UK estate law works but in the States that would be considered "in testate." In such a case, dying without a will, if the estate is worth over $500,000 (this could have changed but was the amount when my uncle passed in 1991), would be placed into probate with a state trustee acting in steed. All assets are frozen for around six months as this is the time necessary to inform all possible claimants including debtors. Then, once all claims are received, the trustee goes over all accounts & claims and makes their determination. This is not as insidious as it sounds as in 99+% of such cases the state simply follows line of familial succession regarding the estate. The only thing dying without a will does is tie up the funds and proceeds a bit longer AND cost the estate a nice chunk of change. The state charges the estate for the cost of the trustee and probate vs. if one dies with a will and has a large estate the trustee is typically named in the will and it is trustee who sets up probate. Of course you still need to pay the bank for the costs of the probate but it is typically much less expensive than the state doing this.

So, long way around the barn, but, Bonham dying in testate would not have caused this situation and would have only affect his percentage of Zep. If anything, it could have caused the exact opposite to happen should the estate be contested. Most likely when Bonham died, with or without a will, everything would have been tied up and put to bed in less than a year. Plus, if there was no income, Pat could have simply applied to the trustee for a comfortable stipend during probate (this is common).

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Thank you for letting me know that.

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It is not his place to divulge info

while he is mostly accurate in his facts, all the facts are not in the article. The only reason he is talking right now is for self promotion and a quest for relevance.  The only pot kettle black thing going on is that he is a product of the system that is greed incarnate.

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5 hours ago, anniemouse said:

Thank you for letting me know that.

Again, sorry for the long winded explanation Annie. The reason I am aware of this is because when my loony uncle died in 91' he had an estate worth around 1.5 million, even though all of his clothes were from 1976 and he lived in a student apt complex two blocks down from UNLV that did not even have a phone. He did leave a will though, however we asked the probate attorney what would have happened had he died in testate and what he told me is what I passed on.

Happy day.

 

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On 7/3/2017 at 5:00 PM, anniemouse said:

Was the rumour true that Bonzo left no will so maybe the band were in financial lockdown; it could explain the group sale and possibly the release of Coda.

Coda was a contractual obligation that preceded Bonham's death by quite some time. His passing had nothing to do with it. 

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