Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones

[Disco Duck]

Who knows? It's possible that Page approached Woods about the bassist slot before John Paul Jones expressed interest in joining the New Yardbirds. It's also possible that Page toyed with the idea of the New Yardbirds being a 2-guitar band at one point. That set-up was working well for the Rolling Stones. Woods could be telling the truth but is fuzzy on the details after all these years. Then again, this maybe a tall tell to make his memoir more interesting.

“Ronnie Wood says now that he, too, had been approached by Page to become the bassist in the New Yardbirds. ‘But I didn’t fancy that at all,’ he grimaces, putting out one cigarette to light another. ‘All that heavy stuff wasn’t my bag at all […]. I wanted to play guitar again. Joining Jimmy would have been like playing with Jeff [beck], stuck on bass. And anyway, there was only ever going to be one guitarist in a group like [Led Zeppelin] – and it wasn’t going to be me.’”

- From "When Giants Walked The Earth"

“Although Peter [Grant] didn’t treat the rest of us as well as he treated Jeff and himself, he did in the early days offer me the chance of being in a band other than the Jeff Beck Group. He told me that a bunch of blokes were putting a band together and intended to call themselves The New Yardbirds. Peter said, ‘They want you as their guitar player’.

Well, I’d met a few of them at his office, including the rude drummer John Bonham, who reminded me of a farmer, bassist John Paul Jones and the harmless enough Robert Plant, and I told Peter, ‘No, I’m happy where I am, thanks’. He insisted, ‘This is an offer you really must consider’. I considered it for two seconds, and then told him again, ‘No way’. The New Yardbirds hired Jimmy Page instead and changed their name to Led Zeppelin.”

- Ronnie Wood in “Ronnie”, his autobiography

I just flicked through “Ronnie” today and just wondered what the hell that second quote is about. I mean, the idea that the other three members (none of whom had been in the Yardbirds, so why on earth would they be calling themselves that?) were assembled and then started looking for a guitarist is so completely the opposite of what we know to be true. It’s impossible that Wood would even have bought that at the time, let alone thirty-odd years later (the book’s from 2007). The account doesn’t even match Wood’s own account in “When Giants Walked The Earth”. (Which merely says that Page was in the early stages of putting a band together, and that Wood might have been in the frame for bassist before Jones came along, if he’d wanted).

So what is the deal with this? Page, after having already assembled the whole group, was seriously considering having it be a two-guitar band, and told Grant to test the water whilst keeping his name out of it? Grant was testing Wood’s loyalty, or otherwise playing some weird head game with him? Or it’s just Wood using his book to have some kind of peculiar in-joke with Page?

Edited May 10, 2013 by Disco Duck

[Knebby]

Wood is talking shite.

[SteveAJones]

I was just wondering why they changed hotels from Royal Orleans when staying in New Orleans on the 2nd and 3rd legs.

Oh, right. Good point. I shall have to reconfirm if some, all or none stayed at Royal Orleans on the first leg. If not, JPJ's hotel room fire there in '75 (alluded to in the lyrics of their song Royal Orleans) may well be the reason for the eventual change to the Maison Dupuy.

Both hotels are located in the Latin Quarter, not far from Bourbon Street.

[SteveAJones]

“Ronnie Wood says now that he, too, had been approached by Page to become the bassist in the New Yardbirds. ‘But I didn’t fancy that at all,’ he grimaces, putting out one cigarette to light another. ‘All that heavy stuff wasn’t my bag at all […]. I wanted to play guitar again. Joining Jimmy would have been like playing with Jeff [beck], stuck on bass. And anyway, there was only ever going to be one guitarist in a group like [Led Zeppelin] – and it wasn’t going to be me.’”

- From "When Giants Walked The Earth"

“Although Peter [Grant] didn’t treat the rest of us as well as he treated Jeff and himself, he did in the early days offer me the chance of being in a band other than the Jeff Beck Group. He told me that a bunch of blokes were putting a band together and intended to call themselves The New Yardbirds. Peter said, ‘They want you as their guitar player’.

Well, I’d met a few of them at his office, including the rude drummer John Bonham, who reminded me of a farmer, bassist John Paul Jones and the harmless enough Robert Plant, and I told Peter, ‘No, I’m happy where I am, thanks’. He insisted, ‘This is an offer you really must consider’. I considered it for two seconds, and then told him again, ‘No way’. The New Yardbirds hired Jimmy Page instead and changed their name to Led Zeppelin.”

- Ronnie Wood in “Ronnie”, his autobiography

I just flicked through “Ronnie” today and just wondered what the hell that second quote is about. I mean, the idea that the other three members (none of whom had been in the Yardbirds, so why on earth would they be calling themselves that?) were assembled and then started looking for a guitarist is so completely the opposite of what we know to be true. It’s impossible that Wood would even have bought that at the time, let alone thirty-odd years later (the book’s from 2007). The account doesn’t even match Wood’s own account in “When Giants Walked The Earth”. (Which merely says that Page was in the early stages of putting a band together, and that Wood might have been in the frame for bassist before Jones came along, if he’d wanted).

So what is the deal with this? Page, after having already assembled the whole group, was seriously considering having it be a two-guitar band, and told Grant to test the water whilst keeping his name out of it? Grant was testing Wood’s loyalty, or otherwise playing some weird head game with him? Or it’s just Wood using his book to have some kind of peculiar in-joke with Page?

This has been covered from time to time in the past, perhaps in other threads. Suffice to say this does read like an attempt at humor.

[SteveAJones]

Who knows? It's possible that Page approached Woods about the bassist slot before John Paul Jones expressed interest in joining the New Yardbirds. It's also possible that Page toyed with the idea of the New Yardbirds being a 2-guitar band at one point.

Any approach would have been very informal as Dreja did not relinquish it until JPJ expressed interest. This is NOT to say Dreja was a founding member of The New Yardbirds - he wasn't - just that he was still in the picture. In fact, it was Dreja who took the pictures on the back of the first album.

If I recall correctly, Page has said he didn't consider a second guitarist until much later when the compositions became more complex.

[Wolfman]

Hi Steve,

Sorry to ask such a negative question, but I was reading how Jimmy was arrested in 1984 for cocaine possession I knew about this for a long time, but the article mentioned it was his second time arrested. When was the first time and what was it for? Also, was his mugshot(s) ever released? On a side note, thank God he didn't do any jail time. Jimmy is obviously a good man with a few minor flaws (like all of us). He's done a lot for charity and since he wasn't hurting anyone but himself, he didn't need prison. Glad the judge felt the same way.

[kingzoso]

Hi Steve,

Sorry to ask such a negative question, but I was reading how Jimmy was arrested in 1984 for cocaine possession I knew about this for a long time, but the article mentioned it was his second time arrested. When was the first time and what was it for? Also, was his mugshot(s) ever released? On a side note, thank God he didn't do any jail time. Jimmy is obviously a good man with a few minor flaws (like all of us). He's done a lot for charity and since he wasn't hurting anyone but himself, he didn't need prison. Glad the judge felt the same way.

I do not know the actual facts concerning Jimmy Page's first or (even his second arrest) for His possession of Cocaine. What I have read is that Jimmy Page went to a bank in England (London) to cash some checks and the teller did not believe that this was actually the Jimmy Page, and she/he called a Constable and apparently Mr. Page had some "Charlie" on him and arrested him (?). From what I have read (again) is that Jimmy told the officer that the "Charlie" was in his coat pocket and (the Cocaine was not his because Jimmy said He loaned the jacked to a friend of His) and that Jimmy did not know it was there.

Regardless, I am glad that Jimmy Page got away with just a "slap on the wrist" and the continued on with the formation of the Firm.

[kenog]

KingZoso,

I am sure SAJ will come online and give the correct versions of these two arrests. However, it has always been my understanding that he was noticed by a police officer at Victoria Rail station to be acting like someone who is under the influence of drugs.

From memory, the incident in the bank concerned Jimmy actually falling over in the premises. His story was that he was trying to withdraw money to buy a birthday present for his mother.

We'll see what SAJ says. IMHO, I don't think Jimmy would have survived prison. Think of the hassle he would have got inside.

I do not know the actual facts concerning Jimmy Page's first or (even his second arrest) for His possession of Cocaine. What I have read is that Jimmy Page went to a bank in England (London) to cash some checks and the teller did not believe that this was actually the Jimmy Page, and she/he called a Constable and apparently Mr. Page had some "Charlie" on him and arrested him (?). From what I have read (again) is that Jimmy told the officer that the "Charlie" was in his coat pocket and (the Cocaine was not his because Jimmy said He loaned the jacked to a friend of His) and that Jimmy did not know it was there.

Regardless, I am glad that Jimmy Page got away with just a "slap on the wrist" and the continued on with the formation of the Firm.

[SteveAJones]

Hi Steve,

Sorry to ask such a negative question, but I was reading how Jimmy was arrested in 1984 for cocaine possession I knew about this for a long time, but the article mentioned it was his second time arrested. When was the first time and what was it for? Also, was his mugshot(s) ever released? On a side note, thank God he didn't do any jail time. Jimmy is obviously a good man with a few minor flaws (like all of us). He's done a lot for charity and since he wasn't hurting anyone but himself, he didn't need prison. Glad the judge felt the same way.

In December 1981, Jimmy was apprehended near the Swan Song Offices in Fulham and found to be in the possession of 198 milligrams of cocaine in his coat pocket. Consequently, on October 5, 1982 Judge Alastair Troup sentenced him to a twelve month conditional discharge and fined him 100 GBP.

On May 17, 1983 Jimmy's home, The Old Mill House in Clewer Village (near Windsor) was raided by law enforcement authorities (Thames Valley Police and Customs and Excise officers)…various substances were seized. Jimmy was driven away to the police station for questioning and kept for several hours before being realeased on bail and allowed to return home.

On July 7, 1983 the Royal Crown Court in London determined Jimmy would not face any charges stemming from the raid on his home.

On September 6, 1984 Jimmy was cited again for cocaine possession, this time by a suspicious bobby at Victoria Rail Station in London. Consequently, on November 5, 1984 at Royal Crown Court in London, Jimmy was fined 450 GBP (the equivalent of $567) by magistrate Brendan Mitchell. Mitchell showed leniency as it was known The Firm were set to tour at the end of the month and, as before, a prison sentence would have kept substantial taxation of the proceeds out of Inland Revenue Service's coffers.

If in any case a mugshot was taken, I have not seen one in circulation.

The Times, November 6, 1984 (London)

Edited May 12, 2013 by SteveAJones

[TheStairwayRemainsTheSame]

What a picture that'd be

If in any case a mugshot was taken, I have not seen one in circulation.

[SteveAJones]

What a picture that'd be

I've mentioned before somewhere I have a photo of Jimmy pleading with a constable outside the Royal Albert Hall not to have his illegally-parked car towed away. Incident occured during the soundcheck for the first show on September 20, 1983, further frazzling his nerves.

[Wolfman]

If you have time, could you please post that pic Steve? Sounds interesting.

[swandown]

Wood is talking shite.

On the contrary; I think Wood is telling the truth as he remembers it. He most likely did meet members of The New Yardbirds. He just didn't meet Plant, Bonzo, or JPJ that day.

[CSH1127]

Oh, right. Good point. I shall have to reconfirm if some, all or none stayed at Royal Orleans on the first leg. If not, JPJ's hotel room fire there in '75 (alluded to in the lyrics of their song Royal Orleans) may well be the reason for the eventual change to the Maison Dupuy.

Both hotels are located in the Latin Quarter, not far from Bourbon Street.

Hey Steve, one slight correction. The Royal Orleans is located in the French Quarter not the "Spanish Quarter". There is no "Latin Quarter". I'm from the area and have stayed there quite a few times and enjoy going to the observation deck when I'm in town. Keep up the good work.

Edited to correct content.

Edited May 13, 2013 by CSH1127

[SteveAJones]

Hey Steve, one slight correction. The Royal Orleans is located in the French Quarter not the "Spanish Quarter". There is no "Spanish Quarter".

You are absolutely correct; I did not post what I meant.

[Knebby]

On the contrary; I think Wood is telling the truth as he remembers it. He most likely did meet members of The New Yardbirds. He just didn't meet Plant, Bonzo, or JPJ that day.

I've got the book and he basically says in it that Peter Grant asked him to be part of a new band with Robert Plant and John Paul Jones, and when he refused he turned to Jimmy Page instead. So he is talking shite.

[dave2007]

I've mentioned before somewhere I have a photo of Jimmy pleading with a constable outside the Royal Albert Hall not to have his illegally-parked car towed away. Incident occured during the soundcheck for the first show on September 20, 1983, further frazzling his nerves.

and as i previously mentioned, Jimmy was not pleading with the constable not to have the car towed away...see the ARMS Concert thread..i posted the pic i took too. you must have missed my post steve...

[SteveAJones]

and as i previously mentioned, Jimmy was not pleading with the constable not to have the car towed away...see the ARMS Concert thread..i posted the pic i took too. you must have missed my post steve...

I'll check it out.

Until now I've had to rely upon fanzine accounts of the incident. If you were there, within ear shot, I shall take your word for it and revise my chronological database.

Edited to add this from dave2007:

I was there at the time. Jimmy was not pleading with the policeman not to tow his car. He had just left the building after the soundcheck and began heading towards the car where his driver was waiting. As he walked more and more fans began to follow him very excitedly. He began to walk faster but soon there were many people all around him. The policeman had just walked around the corner and Jimmy veered off and headed towards him followed by many fans. The policeman was quite taken aback for a few seonds at what he had walked into. Jimmy was asking him where his car was and described the 4 by 4 or range rover...the policeman then looked around and pointed to the nearest vehicle fitting the description. ( about 30 feet away). Jimmy then walked to his car followed by everybody...got in...waved as he was driven away. I took a photo of Jimmy with the policeman...

Edited May 13, 2013 by SteveAJones

[Geezer]

Hi, Steve. What pisses me off is that there's close to zero footage including the band playing offstage. I find it impossible to understand why someone wouldn't film them playing in a studio. Do you think there's at least some footage that is being hoarded?

[Cookie0024]

Hi, Steve. What pisses me off is that there's close to zero footage including the band playing offstage. I find it impossible to understand why someone wouldn't film them playing in a studio. Do you think there's at least some footage that is being hoarded?

Jimmy was asked about that in an interview, he basically said there's no footage as video cameras got in the way when they were recording.

[SteveAJones]

Hi, Steve. What pisses me off is that there's close to zero footage including the band playing offstage. I find it impossible to understand why someone wouldn't film them playing in a studio. Do you think there's at least some footage that is being hoarded?

We know for certain not all of the Earls Court footage has been released. There is also of course the Seattle '77 & Knebworth '79 shows which have not been officially released in their entirety. Aside from that, I often think of the hand-held cameras they carried with them in Japan..there simply must be additional offstage footage similar to the Hiroshima Peace Memorial clips that Jimmy shared on his site.

[ListenToThis]

So we know why Bonham struggled in Nuremberg in 1980, having partied with the band for a large part of the day at a club in Roth.

Do we know why he struggled so in San Diego on June 19, 1977? They had not played in five days and I believe they previously had their family with them in New York. Did Bonham and/or the band travel back to the U.K. during the brief lull? After the ability to party hard for four days did Bonzo choose to overdo it during the afternoon prior to the evening's show?

Plant makes mention of three members with issues during the show, citing himself and Jones specifically. In fact he is relentless in his teasing of Jonesy. Not once does he note Bonzo's obvious issues...

[SteveAJones]

The band arrived in Los Angeles on Wed, June 15th and were staying at the Beverly Hilton Hotel. I don't show any reason in particular for Bonham's sluggishness, but it may well have been a weekend of excess. According to Richard Cole he and the band were partying so hard during this time they were even asked to leave Rod Stewart's home (probably after the first Forum show on June 21st)...so they immediately returned to the Rainbow. Also

Keith Moon joined Bonham onstage the following week in Los Angeles (June 23rd).

So we know why Bonham struggled in Nuremberg in 1980, having partied with the band for a large part of the day at a club in Roth.

Do we know why he struggled so in San Diego on June 19, 1977? They had not played in five days and I believe they previously had their family with them in New York. Did Bonham and/or the band travel back to the U.K. during the brief lull? After the ability to party hard for four days did Bonzo choose to overdo it during the afternoon prior to the evening's show?

Plant makes mention of three members with issues during the show, citing himself and Jones specifically. In fact he is relentless in his teasing of Jonesy. Not once does he note Bonzo's obvious issues...

[ListenToThis]

The band arrived in Los Angeles on Wed, June 15th and were staying at the Beverly Hilton Hotel. I don't show any reason in particular for Bonham's sluggishness, but it may well have been a weekend of excess. According to Richard Cole he and the band were partying so hard during this time they were even asked to leave Rod Stewart's home (probably after the first Forum show on June 21st)...so they immediately returned to the Rainbow. Also

Keith Moon joined Bonham onstage the following week in Los Angeles (June 23rd).

No doubt the result of hard partying. Bonham was particularly bored on days with no show to play - he likely was having fits with all the free time. Thanks Steve.

[PlanetPage]

If you would like to pm or email me your information I can send it directly to Grandmeaulne in Montreal, who I have remained in contact with thru the years. I am confident he may possess the essential linguistics, savvy, credentials & legal support (if necessary) required to liberate these articles from the libraries!

Promoter Donald K. Donald re. Zep Visit to the City of Montreal...

http://www.musimax.com/emissions/lesannees-1.2164?=&view=video&vid=1.5016&videoPageNo=1