achilleslaststand76 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 That 'great' post is so myopic though..he mentions ONE SHOW !! He offers no comparison...no contrast. Great show no doubt...probably in the top 3 of that year....but there's just nothing he's comparing it to...for analysis..which IS what's been going on in this thread... it's just another....hey Zep is great..go enjoy..no matter what year..what show !!! there all great..they can't have a bad show !!! I don't rate that post so high... Well I could not give a flying fuck. I am just expressing my opinion. I heard a great show and it knocked my off my feet. I was a 19 year old lad with a beer and a record player listening to an illegal vinyl of a band I would never see live. My room was full of Zeppelin posters (and one Sabbath) cigarette ashes and empty beer bottles. Mum and Dad were away and I had a licence to get smashed and listen to the boys. It was exhilarating. Isnt that what it was all about????? Maybe its just me but I cannot believe how negative some people are here. Zeppelin were not perfect but they were as good as you get warts and all. I have heard enough of 77 from various sources to know there troubles but I can quickly get over it. It was over 30 years ago you know!!!!!!!!!!!!! To quote Percy 'And its a goodnight from the 4 lads!!!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattmc1973 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Whoa, things are deteriorating in this thread! I think most of us can agree that there were some great shows in 77, and some pretty bad ones. On the whole, it was probably the worst tour as far as consistency of performances, mostly due to Jimmy's condition. Were they still a kick-ass band for the most part, and could they do magical nights? Of course. But when we're talking about comparison to previous tours, the bar is pretty high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achilleslaststand76 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 You don't see what I'm saying...you offered a great feeling for a great show !! YES...but no comparison...no contrast...and this thread is doing that... It's not negative...have you read this thread ? It's critical yes....with alot of insight from those who have seen mulitple shows...etc.... So I guess I could say 'I don't give a flying fuck' about your opinion either....I didn't quite say it like that....but you dissed my opinion EVEN MORE.....I've been reading this thread closely...I've read all the posts many times...have you ? maybe you have...my bet is you haven't..... I am rather amused you think I have to explain my self to you at all! I am also amused by your assumptions about what I have and have not done and how I regard Zeppelin and why as if you have any idea at all. I have been listening to zeppelin since I was ten years old. I know exactly what I feel and why I feel they way I do about them. I float in and out of Zeppelin from time to time as you do over a 38 year period. The problem with this thread is that the negative people like you believe we have to agree with you. I happen not too. I do not need an advanced degree in Zeppelin bootlegs to form an opinion either. I do not need to pass a test set by you. I have an opinion. I express it and you come barrelling in telling me it is unjustified. Well bully for you mate. Your views do not interest me and your rather abrupt dismissal of my opinion was quite rude. NOw go find a hole and stick your head in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 I am rather amused you think I have to explain my self to you at all! I am also amused by your assumptions about what I have and have not done and how I regard Zeppelin and why as if you have any idea at all. I have been listening to zeppelin since I was ten years old. I know exactly what I feel and why I feel they way I do about them. I float in and out of Zeppelin from time to time as you do over a 38 year period. The problem with this thread is that the negative people like you believe we have to agree with you. I happen not too. I do not need an advanced degree in Zeppelin bootlegs to form an opinion either. I do not need to pass a test set by you. I have an opinion. I express it and you come barrelling in telling me it is unjustified. Well bully for you mate. Your views do not interest me and your rather abrupt dismissal of my opinion was quite rude. NOw go find a hole and stick your head in it. Your allowed to have an opinion. And so are the rest of us. I'm not trying to talk anybody into agreeing with me. The only way anyone can have a different opinion on 77 is if they'd seen them prior... and prefered it. I wasn't impressed with 77 for that reason. If you and others liked it ...Then great. Last time I looked 1977 qualified as back in the day ..too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achilleslaststand76 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Your allowed to have an opinion. And so are the rest of us. I'm not trying to talk anybody into agreeing with me. The only way anyone can have a different opinion on 77 is if they'd seen them prior... and prefered it. I wasn't impressed with 77 for that reason. If you and others liked it ...Then great. Last time I looked 1977 qualified as back in the day ..too I have an idea Lets start a thread called 'how bad was the 1977 tour' so the negative lot here can have a field day!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 I have an idea Lets start a thread called 'how bad was the 1977 tour' so the negative lot here can have a field day!!!!!!!!!!!! Jimmy's mostly shoddy playing on the 77 tour...... does that ring a bell ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achilleslaststand76 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 I have an idea Lets start a thread called 'how bad was the 1977 tour' so the negative lot here can have a field day!!!!!!!!!!!!Joelmon aleady has a handy lead in the I hate 77 stakes. Go Joel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattmc1973 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Or we could have a "Zeppelin was always awesome and could do no wrong, who else is with me?" thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 I guess we kinda like Led Zeppelin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattmc1973 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 I guess we kinda like Led Zeppelin Everybody here likes Led Zeppelin, they wouldn't be on this board if they didn't. But some people want to engage in critical discussion about the band, discuss the evolution and intricacies of their tours, the changes in their voices/playing, etc. Warts and all, let's discuss. Others want to come on here and simply say "Zeppelin rules, don't you think?", and look at any deeper discussion as negativity or hating on the band. To each his own, I guess. If some people want to simply discuss their love for the band, and not go any deeper, that's great. But I don't understand the notion some have that as fans you aren't allowed to critique, or objectively point out obvious flaws, because that somehow makes you less of a fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Everybody here likes Led Zeppelin, they wouldn't be on this board if they didn't. But some people want to engage in critical discussion about the band, discuss the evolution and intricacies of their tours, the changes in their voices/playing, etc. Warts and all, let's discuss. Others want to come on here and simply say "Zeppelin rules, don't you think?", and look at any deeper discussion as negativity or hating on the band. To each his own, I guess. If some people want to simply discuss their love for the band, and not go any deeper, that's great. But I don't understand the notion some have that as fans you aren't allowed to critique, or objectively point out obvious flaws, because that somehow makes you less of a fan. I don't understand either ,but my intention was to try and make things less personal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattmc1973 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 ^ Right on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solar Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 I do not need an advanced degree in Zeppelin bootlegs to form an opinion either. No offense, but that's kind of the point and purpose of this whole thread. It's for people who have listened to a lot of '77 shows to discuss them. Like joelmon said, you're giving your opinion of one show/bootleg -- which happens to be one of the best shows of that tour, but also one of the band's most legendary in general. That show is not in question. And joelmon isn't being negative. It's more like being a beer buff. You may like to drink Miller, and maybe even drink a lot of it, but you can recognize and prefer the taste of Fosters as being better. And similarly, you can taste that Busch Lite is a lot worse, but you'll still drink it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 No offense, but that's kind of the point and purpose of this whole thread. It's for people who have listened to a lot of '77 shows to discuss them. Like joelmon said, you're giving your opinion of one show/bootleg -- which happens to be one of the best shows of that tour, but also one of the band's most legendary in general. That show is not in question. And joelmon isn't being negative. It's more like being a beer buff. You may like to drink Miller, and maybe even drink a lot of it, but you can recognize and prefer the taste of Fosters as being better. And similarly, you can taste that Busch Lite is a lot worse, but you'll still drink it. Fosters %^$# Fosters. ... just kidding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solar Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Fosters %^$# Fosters. ... just kidding Hey, I don't drink any Aussie beer. Was trying to relate. For all I know, Foster's is the Aussie equivalent to Colt 45! IF it makes you all feel better, I originally had Bass instead of Foster's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJD Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 F that lite beer, gimme a Spretcher and a copy of Badgeholders! (which I don't have so I must now go find) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 I'm looking for a picture of Jimmy 77 with a Fosters in his hand. Now that would explain everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Hey, I don't drink any Aussie beer. Was trying to relate. For all I know, Foster's is the Aussie equivalent to Colt 45! IF it makes you all feel better, I originally had Bass instead of Foster's. OK your off the hook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunged Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 This topic is getting so drawn out. Its obvious that for whatever reasons the 77 tour doesn't hold as much magic as others. Whether its Jimmy's playing which is undoubtably suffering more often than not, or other factors. I just don't think you will ever get the two sides of the fence to agree. We are split between two groups: Those that won't have a bad word said against Zep and seem to be blinded, and those that listen to every show and know each note. Its simply a recipe for never agreeing and on this topic - it could go forever. I love the 77 set list but thats the only thing, sure some great moments but too many bad ones for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levee Posted January 24, 2008 Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 For the record the only thing the really bothered me about 77 was not getting D&C, instead we got the extremely over indulgent Jimmy "Guitar Solo". A poster a few years ago called it Jimmy's "Green laser pyramid of noise" I thought it was Jahfin but he says no. It wasn't horrible but it sure as hell wasn't the solo we would have got with Dazed. Also while I'm at it Bonzo's Solo was way too long, and I'm a drummer. I mean after ten minutes or so it's enough already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brspled Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Also while I'm at it Bonzo's Solo was way too long, and I'm a drummer. I mean after ten minutes or so it's enough already. Really?? I think I never knew that. Or if I did, I had forgotten. A drummer ... *sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levee Posted January 24, 2008 Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 Really?? I think I never knew that. Or if I did, I had forgotten. A drummer ... *sigh* Well I should say "Was" You know my age, and life happens, marriage, steady income, kids...... You get older you make choices. Now I weigh 400 lbs sit around with my "Chicks Dig The Drummers" tee shirt with my gut hanging out and a diet beverage in my hand......I've taught the dog how to get the mail......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Well I should say "Was" You know my age, and life happens, marriage, steady income, kids...... You get older you make choices. Now I weigh 400 lbs sit around with my "Chicks Dig The Drummers" tee shirt with my gut hanging out and a diet beverage in my hand......I've taught the dog how to get the mail......... Good for you Levee. I tried to get mine to fetch a beer....but he just growled at me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyd63 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Actually, his live rig did change. He was using primarily two 100w Hiwatts from Summer of 69 to December 1971. These were custom made and nowhere near stock. From what I've read it what some time after this he had the Marshall's modified to run KT-88 output tubes. There's one well known interview where he says he has his Marshall's modified in New York to put out 200 watts, this doesn't necessarily mean he changed the transformers, in fact that is rather unlikely given that their wasn't an after market for that type of thing at the time and the only transformers that would actually put that out would be the transformers from a Marshall Major, which wouldn't fit properly on a Superlead chassis. The consensus on all the amp building sites is that he simply had the amps re-adjusted to accommodate KT-88's which would cause a large increase in output (read: blown speakers) and give him the headroom he liked so he could change tones with his volume knob. I think around 75 he switched to the lightest strings Ernie Ball made which definitely had an impact on his tone as well. Sorry for going so far OT. As for '77? I'm listening to LTTE right now and I love it. I love that whole era, 75 on for me personally is the real hammer of the gods stuff, the mystery. If I could catch any show it might be LTTE or Earl's Court. I got Heavy Metal Kids a few weeks back and it is stunning! I have no idea why the official release has the Kashmir from Knebworth and not that show. Bonham is amazing! KT88 or 6550's have a HUGE effect on tone.With more headroom,comes less breakup,less natural tube compression that added greatly to Page's tone.I have a 6550 equipped Marshall and the thing has a totally different feel.EL34 tubes,(stock in Marshalls Plexi's)"give" quite a bit,while KT88-6550's are like solid state...LOUD and CLEAR.In Page's condition in77 shows,clear was not the tone he needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evster2012 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Okay (stretches and prepares for the worst), yes, Jimmy swapped to KT88s, but his volume was just set a 4-7 depending on venue. Not speaker blowing territory when you look at his rig. As for heroin, he (as far as I know) never shot with a needle. It was mostly coke with a little smack cut in. Clearly the set had gotten routine by '75. The magic was Bonham by then. He was the beating heart. The improv was gone for the most part. Tight but loose, yes, but the song didn't remain the same. People always want to blame it on the drugs. But it wasn't the drugs. At least not then. It was the road. The lifestyle across the board took its toll. It was just too big. By '77, the groupies weren't getting the services rockstar Page was delivering in '72. It was a diet of banana daiquiries and magazine interviews. Creem magazine painted the iconic picture. But it took Karac's death to plunge Jimmy into full-on self destruction. Yeah, Jimmy was doing some smack in '77, but that's not what broke him. It was the circus around him. It was off the rails (no pun intended), not the dope. That was present yes, but only took over when there was no Zeppelin, when he was sequestered in his home wondering if his band was over. Zeppelin was a band on autopilot in '77, not a band too fucked up to play. There was so much swirling around them. Like I said, it just got so big. It became more about the show than the performance, if you can follow my meaning. The exploration of the music took a back seat, and the spectacle took over. It wasn't the drugs. That happened later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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