Zep in 77

[eternal light]

I've heard the bootleg of the last night of the L.A. Forum shows in '77 and thought is was quite good. Page was a little sloppy, but still pretty good.

All three of the concerts I went to in 1977 at the Forum were wonderful.

[lzfan715]

Well for a kick off, Robert is the Paul McCartney of Led Zeppelin, the one with the biggest ego who says the most cringe-worthy things...

But apart from that, the "He's out parking the car" comment certainly didn't endear JPJ fans to Robert Plant...

And JPJ has actually hinted at some issues himself...

I remember in an interview he said whenever they introduced a new instrument to led Zeppelin, it was just expected that JPJ would play it live, so that increased the amount of equipment he had on stage which would sometimes fail during a concert, which he'd have to fix "while some people stood on stage impatiently tapping their microphone stand" I mean that's gotta be a dig at Plant...

But I mean look at that comment: Page busts a string, so JPJ has to fill in and decides to do a jazz improve...what's Robert doing? Poncing about on stage being a star? JPJ has to cover their arses and all robert can say about JPJ's improvisation is "well at least we can play the hotel bar.." I mean, come on, that's gotta be a snide remark...Robert could've gotten his mouth organ out, and done something himself.

Look, I mean don't get me wrong, Robert is a wonderful singer and has a great voice, but I don't listen to Led Zep for him, I can't understand anything he sings, I think his lyrics are a bit crappy, I just listen to Led Zep for the incredible music and musicianship being presented by Messers Page, Jones and Bonham...

I see. I guess to some people he comes of arrogant. I thought he was too for awhile. I understand where you are coming though. Thanks for clearing it up.

[NickZepp]

The LA concerts are the best of 77. And probably up there with most boots. Those were great shows. But most of 77 was really down.

[Nathan]

'77 was, IMO, an odd year for Zep.

New York and LA were definitely the highlight and were amazing. The last night of Chicago was probably Page's best playing, IMO, in '77, though, admittedly, he was making up for the show before that was cut short because he was so sick. The one thing I hate about that, though, is that the boys promised to make up for it by doing an "all request" show, which, unfortunately, never happened (info from Dave Lewis's The Concert File). I always wondered what that show would have been like, and what, if any, rare- to never- played songs might have been played.

A lot of people, however, sight the Destroyer and/or Seattle as the worst shows of '77. But how many of you who say that have heard Tempe, Arizona? As huge a fan of Zep as I am, it is the one Zep boot I have that I simply can't stand to listen to. I hate it so much, in fact, that once I grab a chance to update my bootlist on etree, I will be removing it because I just couldn't stand the idea of making anyone else listen to it. So bad is the show, in fact, that it doesn't even have a review on UUWeb. The night is completely nonexistent on there.

This is the night, of any night they ever played in their entire touring history as a band (from '68 to '80), that they should have cut short. It is the only time Led Zeppelin managed to ruin my all-time favorite song, Bron-Y-Aur Stomp. But it was the electric set that really died. Fortunately, no complete recording exists, and it is the one show thast I hope and pray a complete recording never does surface.

Trampled Underfoot, Kashmir, Black Mountain Side, Achilles Last Stand, and Stairway to Heaven are all trainwrecks. Usually, Jimmy's Solo that started in '77 is never that great, but here, on July 20, 1977, it's utterly unlistenable.

Robert's voice here is in horrible shape. He just doesn't seem to care. Singing almost... in a monotone. Bonzo's drumming is sloppy, off-beat, and just plain bad. Even Jonesy, who, IMO, was the best of the four throughout '77, was suffering from the plagues that haunted the band that year.

After all that, why did I get the boot? There is a sort of sick fascination with Tempe, Arizona, much like that sick fascination we all have with car wrecks.

Tempe, Arizona was certainly a wreck. Namely, the Zeppelin-Wreck of '77.

If you want to hear the worst of '77, don't go after Destroyer or Seattle. Go after July 20, 1977 in Tempe, Arizona. This, for sure, is it.

ETA:

I should have said more about Achilles, but since I'm about to leave to meet my dad and some friends for lunch, I'll just say this. It should not have been played... at all.

[Fresh Garbage]

I highly recomend "Destroyer"....I have been listening to this show for over 20 years and I still love it!

I just don't understand what is wrong with the show? Page is in good form, Plant is excellent, and Bonzo and Jones are great!.

The bashing of Destroyer (April 27th 77) really blows my mind.

[NYC6880]

I highly recomend "Destroyer"....I have been listening to this show for over 20 years and I still love it!

I just don't understand what is wrong with the show? Page is in good form, Plant is excellent, and Bonzo and Jones are great!.

The bashing of Destroyer (April 27th 77) really blows my mind.

I dont really have anything against the legendary Destroyer. Its not a bad show but not great either, IMO. I like the show from the next night (4/28) much better, Bonzo really plays well.

[Styrbjorn]

I highly recomend "Destroyer"....I have been listening to this show for over 20 years and I still love it!

I just don't understand what is wrong with the show? Page is in good form, Plant is excellent, and Bonzo and Jones are great!.

The bashing of Destroyer (April 27th 77) really blows my mind.

I can only assume you have spent the last twenty years stone deaf. Page can barely play three notes in a row, is completely out of tune in Kashmir and cocks up every guitar solo his poor hands attempt. The band as a whole are lifeless, you can almost see them looking at their watches thinking "Another hour of this shit? When can we get back to the hotel?"

See also: Seattle, Tempe, Houston .....the whole 1977 American Tour with the exception of MSG and the LA Forum.

Now go listen to Blueberry Hill and compare the two.

[eternal light]

Robert's voice here is in horrible shape. He just doesn't seem to care. Singing almost... in a monotone. Bonzo's drumming is sloppy, off-beat, and just plain bad. Even Jonesy, who, IMO, was the best of the four throughout '77, was suffering from the plagues that haunted the band that year.

Maybe it was just the weather; Arizona can be extremely hot and dry, with temperatures well into the hundreds. Perhaps they were exhausted.

[alwizard03]

Can't say they did't travel in style.Led Zeppelin arriving Louisiville Kentucky 25 April 77.

Also the Kingdome show was not that bad.Of course they are always better when your there and even a Mediocre Zeppelin show is better than most bands at thier best.

[Styrbjorn]

Maybe it was just the weather; Arizona can be extremely hot and dry, with temperatures well into the hundreds. Perhaps they were exhausted.

Forget it. You could be comatose on a saline drip and still play better that that.

They were just crap.

[SteveAJones]

Can't say they did't travel in style.Led Zeppelin arriving Louisiville Kentucky 25 April 77.

Also the Kingdome show was not that bad.Of course they are always better when your there and even a Mediocre Zeppelin show is better than most bands at thier best.

Seattle seems alright until you compare it to the May 1975 Earls Court shows less than two years before. The sluggishness becomes glaringly apparent.

[Fresh Garbage]

I can only assume you have spent the last twenty years stone deaf. Page can barely play three notes in a row, is completely out of tune in Kashmir and cocks up every guitar solo his poor hands attempt. The band as a whole are lifeless, you can almost see them looking at their watches thinking "Another hour of this shit? When can we get back to the hotel?"

See also: Seattle, Tempe, Houston .....the whole 1977 American Tour with the exception of MSG and the LA Forum.

Now go listen to Blueberry Hill and compare the two.

I totally disagree with you! the best sick again solo from the entire 77 tour...there's one good solo he plays IMTOD better then most of the ones from LA so theres two ..don't even get me started on TU...the acustic set is great as well.

and I also love TYG and SIBLY from this show..sorry bro, maybe it's just me.

and I am not deaf! I realize that Destroyer is a dry raw SB. so I take it for what it's worth..your Blueberry Hill coment is pretty stupid considering.

and they were always quote:"out of tune" playing Kashmir durring the entire 77 tour.esp. in LA

[NickZepp]

Jimmy used a different guitar with Kashmir in 77. So it does sound different.

The drugs started to effect Jimmy in 77. That's why he didn't play as well.

If you compare Plant to 77 and 75 his voice is actually pretty good in 77. Not as good as it was at it's best in 71, but much better than it was in early 75 and even later 75. He basically had 2 full years for his voice to heal completely so his voice isn't all that bad.

Bonham was good but not as good as he was in 73 or even 75. Jones was always good.

[alwizard03]

Seattle seems alright until you compare it to the May 1975 Earls Court shows less than two years before. The sluggishness becomes glaringly apparent.

Well you are right but i attended the 23rd and 24th shows they were awesome.The Seattle show was more of a middle of the road show .Not the worst and definetly not thier best.But they are all great when your standing thier watching versus watching it on a bootlegg video.The sound quality of the recordings is pretty bad on the one's i have seen and heard.There are a few good boot shows out there but not many.I still say that Zep onstage with both thier leg's and arm's cut off Robert sceaming it's only a flesh wound is better than anything else out there.I am a Zep fan they are always good even the reunion shows .Yes i went to live aid 85 easier to get tickets to it than the 02 show which i did not attend damned lottery.

[Wesley]

and even a Mediocre Zeppelin show is better than most bands at thier best.

I still say that Zep onstage with both thier leg's and arm's cut off Robert sceaming it's only a flesh wound is better than anything else out there.

This statement, which is repeated by many, gets me irked. I've read your posts to see the multitude of bands you've seen and personally I can't stand many of them. But that's just my taste. To say Led Zeppelin even on a bad night are better than the majority of bands on a good night is ridiculous. I'd say though, they would be better than alot of the bands I've seen you mention (ticket stubs etc.), but on their bad nights, they're don't nearly match many of the bands I've seen.

A bad night is cringeworthy for any band. And yes, others exceed them in that playing state.

[ledzeppIV]

I was lucky. Saw them on the last night in Landover MD (booked as Wash DC). At the Capital Centre on Memorial Day. Stories were that two nights before they had to carry Jimmy off the stage trashed. But that probably served me well as they were off the night before I saw them and were probably scolded by Peter Grant. they were trememdous. and I wouldnt trade that tour for any. Sure the early 70 shows were great. But NO PHYSICAL GRAFFITTI AND NO PRESENCE. Therefore I got to see them with all of their material released except for of course In Through the Outdoor. And like I will always say "Coda does not count". Never would have been released if Bonzo had survived.

[Nathan]

Maybe it was just the weather; Arizona can be extremely hot and dry, with temperatures well into the hundreds. Perhaps they were exhausted.

You obviously have not heard Tempe, Arizona.

Here's what I'll do for you. I'll upload Achilles Last Stand from that night. Not now, because I'm not home, but I'll upload it propbably on Monday.

You'll hate Tempe, Arizona when you hear it. I guararntee it.

Forget it. You could be comatose on a saline drip and still play better that that.

They were just crap.

It's obvious you have heard Tempe, Arizona. I feel your pain...

[Fresh Garbage]

I agree with you Nathan Tempe is the worst along with Greensboro75. it seem's even the great Zeppelin could have a rotton egg every tour.

I know a few people that were in the armed forces that were stationed in Seattle. and they all said the show was great!...amazing what a Jimmy Page jumping in the air, and a Robert plant strutting with that face can do to a mistake.

[kdh]

What happened was that the band got older, but still young in age, and they evolved as perfomers just as they did as human beings. Money, fame, power, glory, family, music, expectations, the list goes on and on just like the wanton song says. Led Zeppelin on the skids? Not quite. Far from it. The band was progessing, evolving, changing, ever onward. The music industry in 1977 was sex, drugs and rock and roll not today's antiseptic crap. When has the last person of great interest o'd in rock. The guy from Blind Melon probably, and that was in 1995 I think. Enjoy the music and visuals of the glorious, bombastic, over the top, arrogant, confidant, cocky, drugged up, drunk, dripping sexual innuendo Zeppelin of the late 70's. That is the last image that the USA had of this band. There is no discussion on what would have happened in 1980 because it didn't happen. John Bonham laid it all to rest. Over Europe 1980 has gotten zero respect visually and musically. That is the final statement of this band. Over Europe 1980 needs to be revealed, researched, marketed and glorified for all the bad and good just like all the other tours throughout Led Zeppelin's career.

[Styrbjorn]

I totally disagree with you! the best sick again solo from the entire 77 tour...there's one good solo he plays IMTOD better then most of the ones from LA so theres two ..don't even get me started on TU...the acustic set is great as well.

and I also love TYG and SIBLY from this show..sorry bro, maybe it's just me.

and I am not deaf! I realize that Destroyer is a dry raw SB. so I take it for what it's worth..your Blueberry Hill coment is pretty stupid considering.

and they were always quote:"out of tune" playing Kashmir durring the entire 77 tour.esp. in LA

What exactly is so stupid about it? In comparing the two you can see the level of commitment they had in 1970 which had almost disappeared by 1977.

As for:

"they were always quote:"out of tune" playing Kashmir during the entire 77 tour."

How professional of them.

[Walter]

^ I do generally agree with your take kdh. Layne Staley did OD more recently, but like you said it does not happen as frequently. I also agree with the Over Europe tour. I wish more was out to capture the essence of the last phase of Zeppelin. I have 4 shows from that tour and not all was bad. All My Love was very good on most nights, In The Evening as well. Plus it was great to hear Train Kept A Rollin' open the show with Jimmy's distorted guitar playing.

As far as '77 went, the set list was great. I feel that the band (Jimmy in particular) was feeling the pressure of living up to their aura they had created. They were the world's biggest band when the music industry was at its peak. Look at all of the imitator's that followed them for the next two decades. I fully believe that is why Robert doesn't want to continue performing as Zeppelin, too much to live up to.

Peace.

"Art changes people, people change the world." - John Butler

[eternal light]

You obviously have not heard Tempe, Arizona.

Here's what I'll do for you. I'll upload Achilles Last Stand from that night. Not now, because I'm not home, but I'll upload it propbably on Monday.

You'll hate Tempe, Arizona when you hear it. I guararntee it.

I wasn't there that night; have you talked to anyone who was? Sometimes the boots don't accurately reflect the actual experience of being there.

[Nathan]

I wasn't there that night; have you talked to anyone who was? Sometimes the boots don't accurately reflect the actual experience of being there.

Obviously you really need to hear Achilles from that night, and Bron-Y-Aur Stomp. In fact, you really should find a way to hear the whole thing...

I think you'd agree with me...

And... yes... in a way... I have heard from someone who was there:

This concert was originally scheduled for Sunday March 6, 1977 but Robert Plant's laryngitis postponed this show until Wednesday July 20th.

The show was supposed to begin at 8pm but didn't start until just before 9:00.

The show opened with a strong performance of "Ths Song Remains the Same". Jimmy Page was dressed in his black dragon pants, with a plain black tee-shirt, and white scarf. The first part of the set seemed decent, with the exception of Page who stood still near Bonzo's drum riser for most of the night. During the guitar solo in "Over the Hills and Far Away" Page miscalculated his need to switch his guitar floor effect, with Robert Plant being closer to it and actually activating it for him. Things took a strange turn after a very low key acoustic set. During "Trampled Underfoot" Page turned in a very uninspired guitar solo. Then...He chose not to perform "White Summer". He played a few bars of "Black Mountain Side" before going into "Kashmir"......but without the rest of the band, slowly Bonzo joined in, then John Paul Jones. Next ...there was no "Moby Dick!!" Bonzo seemed to be "missing in action" at the close of Page's guitar solo so there was an improvisational opening to "Achilles Last Stand". And after the opening bars of "Achilles" right when the song "kicks" in, there was an extremely LOUD explosion with a blinding white light from the flashpots located at the front of the stage, which threw Jimmy back a couple feet, then you could see him going over to the side of the stage raising a closed fist presumably at a roadie. After the song Robert announced that the explosion was not meant to happen and that the person responsable would soon be "casterated". The band just never seemed to ever get on track and turned in a very uneven performance. Jimmy was content with standing perfectly still through most of the show. During "Stairway To Heaven'' Jimmy actually dropped to one knee during the guitar solo. Bonzo seemed in a hurry to end the show and was off his drum stool and gone before Robert finished the final lyric. So you didn't have the customary cymbal flurry at the end of the song. Then.... that WAS IT!!!

NO ENCORE! I heard people in the crowd after the show making comments, one was "Led Zeppelin didn't eat their Wheaties". But you know even though the performance was very lacklustre, I was never the less just happy that I got to see them live, and being only 75 feet from the stage,well very close. Tempe Arizona, sadly would be the second to last U.S. city the band would ever play in. It would have been nice to have had a supercharged show, but that was not the way it was. I hope you enjoyed my concert memory.

Thanks, Ed Ortiz

[Walter]

I have read other reviews that have followed the same storyline. Chicago comes to mind, when Page has a "stomach virus" which kept him in a chair until he could no longer perform. Anyway I have a copy of the Oakland show a couple of days later which was much better than what this sounded like. Sad.

Peace.

"Art changes people, people change the world." - John Butler

[Fresh Garbage]

The important thing about this subject is that Zeppelin played 600+ shows. and here we only have a very small handful of bad ones.

I normaly do not post on any negative Zeppelin threads, because IMO the music is what it is... and we can never change that, no matter how many times we take these so called bad shows and run them through a fine microscope . the song remains the same...

I look at it this way: if you don't care for the show then fine. to each his own...