whitedog Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 I just finished reading this great book,some revealing details here regarding the Oakland incident.Grant was truly messed up by this point,1977, as were were the band,the end was sadly in sight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJD Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Read the bill grahm book's account of that night. Really awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albionremain Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I just finished reading this great book,some revealing details here regarding the Oakland incident.Grant was truly messed up by this point,1977, as were were the band,the end was sadly in sight Didn't it start with Grant's son getting slapped upside the head by one of Graham's employees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedog Posted May 22, 2008 Author Share Posted May 22, 2008 Didn't it start with Grant's son getting slapped upside the head by one of Graham's employees? Not quite, Grant high on coke and miserable over his divorce was looking foe ANY excuse to vent his anger,one of his roadies reported that Grahams security slapped around Grants son backstage at the Oakland colliseum when in fact all he did was tell the boy he can't remove a Led Zeppelin logo off a door...ALL HELL BROKE OUT AFTER THIS with Grant and his goon pummeling the security guard to a bloody mess,then being led off in handcuffs to jail,everybody high on coke,Page a full blown junkie,Bonham a complete drunk,Jones escaping secretly with his wife to forget the whole mess and finally Plants son falling ill back home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albionremain Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Did Bonham really kick Graham's guy in the balls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evster2012 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Not quite, Grant high on coke and miserable over his divorce was looking foe ANY excuse to vent his anger,one of his roadies reported that Grahams security slapped around Grants son backstage at the Oakland colliseum when in fact all he did was tell the boy he can't remove a Led Zeppelin logo off a door...ALL HELL BROKE OUT AFTER THIS with Grant and his goon pummeling the security guard to a bloody mess,then being led off in handcuffs to jail,everybody high on coke,Page a full blown junkie,Bonham a complete drunk,Jones escaping secretly with his wife to forget the whole mess and finally Plants son falling ill back home. That's a little strong, don't you think? Yes, Grant's son Warren was backstage and asked if he could have the placard off the dressing room door, and yes, hell did break out. As I understand the security shoved the boy. If that was my kid, I'd bloody you or anyone else. He's just a kid for fuck's sake! If you manhandle my child... Whatever. But "Page a full blown junkie, Bonham a complete drunk, Jones escaping secretly with his wife to forget the whole mess and finally Plants son falling ill back home." just seems callous. Oh, and how does one define a "full blown junkie"? Page in 77? Nah. Maybe on the road. But not yet arrived. Oh and as for Bonham being a "full blown drunk", let me tell you a bit about alcoholism. Mr Bonham aspirated vomit into his lungs. That would be because his body rejected the alcohol. True alcoholics don't do that. It's what their body craves and their body becomes settled when they drink. The alcoholic body doesn't reject alcohol. So yes, maybe Bonzo drank too much, but by my definition, a full blown drunk is an alcoholic, and were Mr Bonham an alcoholic, he'd have died of organ failure, not the way he did. So maybe he was a social drinker who enjoyed a few pints and on this day had too much. Just a little perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albionremain Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 That's a little strong, don't you think? Yes, Grant's son Warren was backstage and asked if he could have the placard off the dressing room door, and yes, hell did break out. As I understand the security shoved the boy. If that was my kid, I'd bloody you or anyone else. He's just a kid for fuck's sake! If you manhandle my child... Whatever. But "Page a full blown junkie, Bonham a complete drunk, Jones escaping secretly with his wife to forget the whole mess and finally Plants son falling ill back home." just seems callous. Oh, and how does one define a "full blown junkie"? Page in 77? Nah. Maybe on the road. But not yet arrived. Oh and as for Bonham being a "full blown drunk", let me tell you a bit about alcoholism. Mr Bonham aspirated vomit into his lungs. That would be because his body rejected the alcohol. True alcoholics don't do that. It's what their body craves and their body becomes settled when they drink. The alcoholic body doesn't reject alcohol. So yes, maybe Bonzo drank too much, but by my definition, a full blown drunk is an alcoholic, and were Mr Bonham an alcoholic, he'd have died of organ failure, not the way he did. So maybe he was a social drinker who enjoyed a few pints and on this day had too much. Just a little perspective. I agree. This guy doesn't sound like a true Led Zeppelin fan to me. He's just someone with an axe to grind, for whatever reason... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zooma Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Not quite, Grant high on coke and miserable over his divorce was looking foe ANY excuse to vent his anger,one of his roadies reported that Grahams security slapped around Grants son backstage at the Oakland colliseum when in fact all he did was tell the boy he can't remove a Led Zeppelin logo off a door...ALL HELL BROKE OUT AFTER THIS with Grant and his goon pummeling the security guard to a bloody mess,then being led off in handcuffs to jail,everybody high on coke,Page a full blown junkie,Bonham a complete drunk,Jones escaping secretly with his wife to forget the whole mess and finally Plants son falling ill back home. Evester's right about your post being more than a little callous. That was just downright nasty and classless. Don't be such an expert on things you really don't know anything about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albionremain Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Evester's right about your post being more than a little callous. That was just downright nasty and classless. Don't be such an expert on things you really don't know anything about. Touche! Now could someone please tell me if Bonzo really kicked that guy in the balls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evster2012 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Touche! Now could someone please tell me if Bonzo really kicked that guy in the balls? Well, it depends on who you choose to believe: Led Zeppelin's lawyer, Jeffry Hoffman, said all four will plead innocent, and that "it is my firm belief that is what the ultimate outcome will be." The Zeppelin entourage refused further comment on the suits or the incidents. Graham, however, did give his version of what happened, based partly on what his employees told him: "There were really two incidents, both of which happened after the Saturday concert was over. The first involved Peter Grant and a security man for the him, John Bindon. As they left the stage, Jim Downey [a member of Graham's stage crew] said to Grant who looked very tired, something like, 'Do you need any help?' From what I can tell, there was offense taken to that statement. The stage crew man was struck by Bindon and his head was bashed against the concrete. "The second incident involved a stage security man named Jim Matzorkis. Matzorkis was taking a wooden plaque with Led Zeppelin's name on it off their dressing-room door to put away for the next show. A young boy asked him for the sing, and Jim said, 'No, we need it for the next day.' Turned out the young boy was Peter Grant's son." According to Matzorkis' report to the Oakland police, he was putting the sign in a storage trailer when he was approached by Grant, Bonham, Bindon and Zep tour manager Richard Cole. "You don't talk to a kid like that," Grant reportedly told Matzorkis. "Apologize or I'll have your job." Matzorkis siad that Bonham also told him to apologize and then kicked him in the groin. Matzorkis fled and hid in a trailer. According to Graham, Grant's employees then began to look for Matzorkis. During the search, Cole allegedly hit Bob Barsotti, Graham's production manager, on the back with a four-inch lead pip. Graham said he went to speak to Grant in his trailer to try to clear up what was turning into a dangerous situation. "I went in and said, 'I don't know what went on, but if there are any apologies due, I extend them on behalf of my company.' And Peter said, 'I want to speak to this man.' I said, 'Peter, you're a very big person' -- he weighs about 300 pounds -- 'give me your word, nothing physical.' He said, 'Bill, I give you my word.' "I went over to the trailer where Jim was hiding. I said, 'Jim, it's okay, it's me.' Then I stepped in. I said, 'Jim, this is Mr. Peter Grant, the boy's father.' Before I could finish the sentence, Peter blasted Jim in the face. I tried to stand between them, but Grant forced me to the door of the trailer, this other man came in and then Grant forced me out and locked the door. I tried to open the door, but their people came over and guarded the door. Matzorkis worked his way to the door while they were hitting him, and he was able to get out. His face was a bloody mess." Matzorkis was taken to an East Bay hospital. According to a court file, he had cuts and bruises on his face and lips and a broken tooth. Graham said a Zeppelin representative told him the band would not take the stage Sunday until he signed an agreement indemnifying the group against damages resulting from the Matzorkis incident. He said he signed the paper only after his lawyer assured him that under the circumstances it was not binding. Graham said he also asked his production people to coll it for the day. The Sunday concert was notably low-key; guitarist Jimmy Page, who is known for roaming around the stage, sat through much of the show. "I could never in good conscience book them again," Graham said. "For these people to assume that might makes right takes me back to German -- and I've blocked out pretty much of my childhood [some members of Graham's family died in concentration camps] -- but that's where they come from. I cannot help but wonder how much of this did, in fact, go on in the past with these people." Swan Song would only say that the case is a personal legal matter: "Robert's child died; this is bulls--- in comparison." Ironic that that article was published in an issue of Rolling Stone with O.J. Simpson on the cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evster2012 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Anyway, that said. Regardless of what happened on that day. Have you never had a few too many and got in a brawl? A single incident does not a pattern make. Yeah, over the last 41 years, I've met up with some assholes and put a boot in. Does that make me a thug? No. That's just what navigating life sticks in your path from time to time. Sometimes you have a few beers and some idiot does something way out of line, and it escalates. The reputation of the Zeppelin crew as brutal is not substatiated by that singular incident. And please don't bring in Grant's demanding his boys' due as evidence. It's two different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrZoSo Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I would have issue with anyone putting there hands on my child. God only knows what some are capable of in such a situation. I hope I never have to find out as I am sure someone would be bathing in blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDave Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 That's a little strong, don't you think? Yes, Grant's son Warren was backstage and asked if he could have the placard off the dressing room door, and yes, hell did break out. As I understand the security shoved the boy. If that was my kid, I'd bloody you or anyone else. He's just a kid for fuck's sake! If you manhandle my child... Whatever. But "Page a full blown junkie, Bonham a complete drunk, Jones escaping secretly with his wife to forget the whole mess and finally Plants son falling ill back home." just seems callous. Oh, and how does one define a "full blown junkie"? Page in 77? Nah. Maybe on the road. But not yet arrived. Oh and as for Bonham being a "full blown drunk", let me tell you a bit about alcoholism. Mr Bonham aspirated vomit into his lungs. That would be because his body rejected the alcohol. True alcoholics don't do that. It's what their body craves and their body becomes settled when they drink. The alcoholic body doesn't reject alcohol. So yes, maybe Bonzo drank too much, but by my definition, a full blown drunk is an alcoholic, and were Mr Bonham an alcoholic, he'd have died of organ failure, not the way he did. So maybe he was a social drinker who enjoyed a few pints and on this day had too much. Just a little perspective. You summed it up perfectly. Whitedog is certainly not a fan, judging by his comments and is a just newbie anyway. He went quite overboard, by trying to paraphrase the whole incident and basically gave a London tabloid fabricated version of the incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedog Posted May 22, 2008 Author Share Posted May 22, 2008 You summed it up perfectly. Whitedog is certainly not a fan, judging by his comments and is a just newbie anyway. He went quite overboard, by trying to paraphrase the whole incident and basically gave a London tabloid fabricated version of the incident. Sorry guys to ruin your rock & roll fantasy but sadly life is real,I'm a Zep fan from the early 70's.Zeppelin did'nt disintergrate for nothing, life on the Zeppelin was rapidly turning from a magical foursome who created some of the best music of the 70's into a nightmare, it all went to there heads,why do you think Robert Plant wants nothing to do with 70's cock rock extravagance AND has said watching 'Song Reamains The Same' is embarrising.Page WAS a heroin addict whose playing was wasting not to mention his health ,Bonham WAS a violent alcholic due to homesickness ,Jones DID escape with his wife after that fiassco, Grant WAS a severe coke head ,who admitted to hiding in his mansion after Bonhams death suffering from the classic symtoms of cocaine ,paranoia and anti social behaviour,not to mention that fighter Grant hired to protect the band,a man with a criminal record.Graham himself called them thugs looking for any reason to show ther power at the drop of a hat...why is everyone having such a hard time accepting life as we know it... divorce,alcholism,drug abuse,death,denial,acceptance,rebirth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain Hopper Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Wow! All of a sudden I don't feel like such an idiot for starting the bootleg thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zooma Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Sorry guys to ruin your rock & roll fantasy but sadly life is real,I'm a Zep fan from the early 70's.Zeppelin did'nt disintergrate for nothing, life on the Zeppelin was rapidly turning from a magical foursome who created some of the best music of the 70's into a nightmare, it all went to there heads,why do you think Robert Plant wants nothing to do with 70's cock rock extravagance AND has said watching 'Song Reamains The Same' is embarrising.Page WAS a heroin addict whose playing was wasting not to mention his health ,Bonham WAS a violent alcholic due to homesickness ,Jones DID escape with his wife after that fiassco, Grant WAS a severe coke head ,who admitted to hiding in his mansion after Bonhams death suffering from the classic symtoms of cocaine ,paranoia and anti social behaviour,not to mention that fighter Grant hired to protect the band,a man with a criminal record.Graham himself called them thugs looking for any reason to show ther power at the drop of a hat...why is everyone having such a hard time accepting life as we know it... divorce,alcholism,drug abuse,death,denial,acceptance,rebirth There is no doubt that the boys did have some issues. Substance abuse or otherwise. What Human doesn't have some kind of imperfection and flaw. Most of us don't have our flaws exposed for the world to see, unfortunately high profile musicians do. I don't think anyone here is in denial about the real life issues that our musical heros have to deal with, but there are other ways to make the same point without sounding so mean about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Sorry guys to ruin your rock & roll fantasy but sadly life is real,I'm a Zep fan from the early 70's.Zeppelin did'nt disintergrate for nothing, life on the Zeppelin was rapidly turning from a magical foursome who created some of the best music of the 70's into a nightmare, it all went to there heads,why do you think Robert Plant wants nothing to do with 70's cock rock extravagance AND has said watching 'Song Reamains The Same' is embarrising.Page WAS a heroin addict whose playing was wasting not to mention his health ,Bonham WAS a violent alcholic due to homesickness ,Jones DID escape with his wife after that fiassco, Grant WAS a severe coke head ,who admitted to hiding in his mansion after Bonhams death suffering from the classic symtoms of cocaine ,paranoia and anti social behaviour,not to mention that fighter Grant hired to protect the band,a man with a criminal record.Graham himself called them thugs looking for any reason to show ther power at the drop of a hat...why is everyone having such a hard time accepting life as we know it... divorce,alcholism,drug abuse,death,denial,acceptance,rebirth I don't disagree in principle with what your saying, though it's a bit sensationalist. For example, JPJ didn't "escape" anything - neither he, Robert or Jimmy were implicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertarianFool Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 I don't disagree in principle with what your saying, though it's a bit sensationalist. For example, JPJ didn't "escape" anything - neither he, Robert or Jimmy were implicated. I agree. And it must be said, what's with the "Yeah, he's not a real fan!!!" stuff? I'm sorry, but that just makes the ones who said that seem like zombies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Garbage Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Zeppelins management were all a bunch of a$$holes during the 77 tour. they all openly admitted it so why can't we? what happened in Oakland was bull $hit. and what Grant and company did was wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misty mountain Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Zeppelins management were all a bunch of a$$holes during the 77 tour. they all openly admitted it so why can't we? what happened in Oakland was bull $hit. and what Grant and company did was wrong! when you watch TSRTS ;it makes you wonder why they even put the Peter Grant arguing /swearing at people scenes in the movie .Sure you can understand that they wanted to show the behind the scenes of a concert. but i believe it ruined the musical flow of the movie.It did show the need for the heavy handed tactics of peter grant as to "protecting"the Name of the group.but like i say ;It interrupted the flow of the movie. Therefore the music was all i wanted to see and hear. and was gutted when a song started then it switched to "In house fighting" . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misty Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 i didnt mind those "behind the scenes" scenes in the movie. i thought it showed what was real, and i loved to see the band as they were, not acting or performing. as far as peter grant goes, i mean, i assume that was all ver difficult to manage...the drugs, the celebrity of the band...must have been sheer madness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custom Hearse Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Quote:AND(Robert Plant) has said watching 'Song Reamains The Same' is embarrising. Actually, Robert Plant, Jimmy Page, John Paul Jones, and John Bonham were of the same opinion.... The Song Remains The Same was an embarrassment for them. They were quoted as saying they tried to make it extravagant, and that they were more into showing off for the camera, than trying to play the music, but they were happy to be able to do the movie. As for Robert Plant not wanting to do so called "cock rock", he stopped doing that after Led Zeppelin broke up.... In his words, he grew up.... Here's a bit of trivia.... The film "The Song Remains The Same was filmed in '76, at several locations. During the tour, the band had to wear the same clothes over and over. John Paul Jones got tired of wearing the same thing every concert, and you can spot him in different clothes halfway through the movie.... Just something I thought might interest you folks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Here's a bit of trivia.... The film "The Song Remains The Same was filmed in '76, at several locations. During the tour, the band had to wear the same clothes over and over. John Paul Jones got tired of wearing the same thing every concert, and you can spot him in different clothes halfway through the movie.... Just something I thought might interest you folks.... I think you meant to say TSRTS, released in 1976, was filmed in 1973 and 1974. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 What happened in Oakland was bull $hit. and what Grant and company did was wrong! There are two sides to every story and in this case there are arguably no innocents. Bill Graham nearly sent some of his own people to New Orleans to avenge what they considered outlaw justice. Violence begets violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdh Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Led Zeppelin on Tour in 77. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.