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The Firm or Coverdale Page


zeptangerine

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I 'll take the Firm over C/P anyday.

With the Firm, true the albums werent well produced by Page standards & his playing was very laid back, but the 'songs' were there. Live, I love the versions of "Closer", "Someone To Love", "Together", "Midnight Moonlight", "Fortune Hunter", "Cadillac", & "Live In Peace" on the bootlegs I have. The songs themselves stand up.

On C/P, the playing of Page is great but the 'songs' aren't really there as far as structure (excluding "Shake My Tree" & "Pride & Joy") & its way overproduced. Coverdale is laughable throughout. "Feelin' Hot" has to be the biggest waste of a good Page solo ever, what a shitty song it's so embaressing. Did Coverdale crib the lyrics from "Hustler" magazines' letter page?

But I would love to see Page play with someone who is like minded & can inspire him if Zep doesnt tour. I do nominate Jack White & Dave Grohl. White singing & playing acoustic or slide with Page would be great & Grohl I always loved as a drummer. Besides, I think they all respect eachother & could bring out something special in all of them that wouldnt sound necessarily like any of their respective bands. Just a thought. Oh, & throw JPJ in there to for good measure.

Have to disagree about there not really being structure in the songs on C/P, but we have differing opinions as I feel a bit at odds about the 2nd Firm album and Page's playing being very underwelming..Moonlight the exception from The first lp !! Rogers is a fine singer in Free/Company but just doesn't fit with Page at all, not a good combo in my opinion, although the live shows were better if not pretty great. On the otherhand DC I feel is alot better with Page even if his lyrics are from Hustler, not that there is anything wrong with Hustler :rolleyes: !! But with the live footage from Japan of C/P it isn't as good as the album !!

I guess I protect Coverdale as in Deep purple he was great and being like a huge Purple fan from MK I to Mk VII ,C so I was happy to see C/P. I do agree about Feelin Hot though, if it was in the days of LPS then this wouldn't of made it, where as The Firm albums was on the borderline CD/LP days and to be frank alot of those songs shouldn't of made it !!

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I think we should thank...and I said THANK...DC for doing what most people couldnt... kicking Jimmy in the ass and getting him back both playing guitar and pushing him to be...well...Jimmy Page.

As some of you know, I know David. I sometimes make myself look foolish in defending some of the things he's done. However, I stick to my guns. I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding of David. He never has intended or wanted to replace Robert. I spoke with him after the CP tour and he was very happy to be out of the partnership. He's much more comfortable leading his own band, and even though he and Jimmy are very close friends he felt that Jimmy made the right decision getting back with Robert (at the time) because, as he said, that's where Jimmy's heart is.

The CP album is a great display of Jimmy's playing. The album is not good for David because you can tell he's straining much too hard to sing. The songs are good, but in the wrong key, and DC ends up screaming....as for the lyrics....I think Whisper a Prayer for the Dying, Over Now, and Take Me for a Little While more than make up for Feelin' Hot....but the screaming David does is bad.

I like the album however, because it's a better example of "Jimmy Page" than The Firm albums are.

Just my opinion. :)

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I think we should thank...and I said THANK...DC for doing what most people couldnt... kicking Jimmy in the ass and getting him back both playing guitar and pushing him to be...well...Jimmy Page.

As some of you know, I know David. I sometimes make myself look foolish in defending some of the things he's done. However, I stick to my guns. I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding of David. He never has intended or wanted to replace Robert. I spoke with him after the CP tour and he was very happy to be out of the partnership. He's much more comfortable leading his own band, and even though he and Jimmy are very close friends he felt that Jimmy made the right decision getting back with Robert (at the time) because, as he said, that's where Jimmy's heart is.

The CP album is a great display of Jimmy's playing. The album is not good for David because you can tell he's straining much too hard to sing. The songs are good, but in the wrong key, and DC ends up screaming....as for the lyrics....I think Whisper a Prayer for the Dying, Over Now, and Take Me for a Little While more than make up for Feelin' Hot....but the screaming David does is bad.

I like the album however, because it's a better example of "Jimmy Page" than The Firm albums are.

Just my opinion. :)

Thats cool:) Well tell him from me that I have always defended C/P album and The 3 Purple albums he did are just wonderful !!!

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The firm for me. just got two firm shows in the last yr and really enjoy listening to them. i always had the live b side on vinyl of -live in peace and love that song live. imo, -the firm were a good rock band, that being the live stuff was very good.the live stuff from page and coverdale on youtube wasnt so good imo and the led zep stuff was unlistenable to me. I listen to the live -page outrider show and -john miles sang the firm and zep songs well, great show and very listenable and likeable. the page, coverdale album and production was good ofcourse, but i'd much rather see page play on a -roy harper album.

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The conversation above here regarding DC is all fine and dandy.

Being a friend is alway a sure way to take sides . No big deal. It's cool.

What bothered some was the live showmanship David portrayed on stage.

I prefer his studio singing far above the live performing from that short lived Japan tour.

Super high pitch falsetto screams accompanied with a holyier then the rest attitude didn't create a whole lot of new followers. He was arrogant as hell. And all the swearing was , as I've said before just distasteful. For a veteran with so much experience and reputation he sure didn't act the part.

I think playing with JP went to his head back then.

A fantastic CD , love it all and listen to it frequently .

The whole project served us well / JP was back in form and working again.

Between 88 and 93 was a long drought. One I remember well , long before the internet chat forum's and the continuous source of information we all share now.

I'm interested in the evolution of Jimmy Page .

I think what most of you are missing is that JP has grown through different sounds , played in new styles and added to is arsenal of sound with each and every project.

The Firm was a great example of him exploring a whole new approach to his playing.

You like or you don't . We all have opinions.

Breaking down the songs and analyzing them and then comparing is foolish.

We all dig different stuff. One man's whiskey is another man's wine.

All in good spirit .

Peace

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I think we should thank...and I said THANK...DC for doing what most people couldnt... kicking Jimmy in the ass and getting him back both playing guitar and pushing him to be...well...Jimmy Page.

Well said! FTR, Whisper a Prayer for the Dying is one of my top faves from the C/Page cd.

Okay, after Robert's lofty words of zero hopes for any chance of reunion (too much paperwork?), I'm ready for another Jimmy project!

:D

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I am really impressed by -pages soloing w/the firm. i think with some of the looser rock structured stuff he just plays really great. but then again some of the riffs like -closer arent simple either. i dont know, maybe he just was really wanting to play live again back then.

i think the firm was an actual band with a sound compared to page/coverdale. -the firm had some interesting sounding stuff, but maybe requires more listening than page-coverdale.

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I have nothing against David Coverdale. I never thought he was a Plant clone. I liked early Whitesnake & Deep Purple's "Burn". I just watched the new Whitesnake video on VH1 Classics today.

What this topic really should be is: Which disappointed you less, the Firm or C/P?

In the end I stand by what I earlier posted about C/P. The production is terrible. I'd rather hear an under-produced album than layers of bullshit thrown on for no particular reason just to fill out that there is no song structure. I despise that. Personal thing.

I think Coverdale was in good voice & Page played great, just a pity that the album sucked. Maybe "Midnight Moonlight" could've waited until 93' to be recorded & maybe I would have liked the album better. I'm sure it would've been re-named "A Hotdog & A Shake" or something equally ridiculous but, who knows.

In the end, I take Death Wish 2 over the Firm or C/P. Cant go wrong with "Who's To Blame" & "City Sirens".

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At the time I thought The Firm didn't really work, and I still haven't really changed my mind. The problem wasn't the musicianship as such, and the bootleg stuff I have heard on the whole sounds perhaps better than the studio offerings. Paul Rodgers is an excellent singer, no doubt about that. But stylistically Rodgers and Jimmy just don't fit together very well. In my opinion Rodgers sounded best in Free, primarily because he and Kossoff were an excellent match, but Jimmy needs to work with a singer that has a similarly loose approach.

Coverdale/Page had excellent stuff from Jimmy, good playing, some good songs, and it was great to hear backwards echo again. But David Coverdale was simply awful. Most people develop a distinct style over the years, whereas he lost his style and became a heavy metal caricature. It's a pity. He was good with Deep Purple and the early Whitesnake. Lyrically, however, I am not sure he would ever have been a good choice for Jimmy. Even so I do occasionally listen to things like 'Easy Does It' purely because of Jimmy's playing.

With you on your comments on The Firm, bit of a disappointment as I think Paul is one of the great rock singers, and seemed ideally suited to working with Jimmy on paper. However, the chemistry just wasn't there as far as I was concerned.

As for Coverdale, I wouldn't say he was awful, but I've never been particularly into him. On the album with Jimmy, it actually sounded to me like he was trying to imitate other people's style rather than singing with his own voice.

Unfortunately Jimmy Page has, in my opinion, not found other people to work with over the past 25 years that worked as well as Led Zep, or even the Yardbirds.

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His sarcasm is implying he's making excuses = too much paperwork? That's Robert speak for "not going to reunite anytime soon. If ever."

Its isn't any such thing. Have you read the interview? His comments re the O2 paperwork do not follow any discussion about a reunion tour. The interviewer has put that slant on it, and yet again people start lining up to give Robert the flack. He has more than enough reasons not to want to tour with a reunited Led Zeppelin, he doesn't need to throw in ones about paperwork.

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I am really impressed by -pages soloing w/the firm. i think with some of the looser rock structured stuff he just plays really great. but then again some of the riffs like -closer arent simple either. i dont know, maybe he just was really wanting to play live again back then.

i think the firm was an actual band with a sound compared to page/coverdale. -the firm had some interesting sounding stuff, but maybe requires more listening than page-coverdale.

good point. plus, page went a pointedly came up with an entire new and different sound for the firm. temporarily benched the LP, brought out the tele with b/string bender, made it predominate in the stage sound presentation, all the while knowing he was stepping away as far as he could from the zeppelin live sound. as i've said before, live onstage, the firm with jimmy page was a great bunch of shows.

i do find it peculiar how singers react to page, as he is, without singing, as much of a front man as anybody. paul rodgers had trouble with it, i think and even robert in '98 was not as interested in sharing the light with my boy. (this is my own perception, of course. if yours is different, return all unused product to point of purchase for a full refund. :) )

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Its isn't any such thing. Have you read the interview? His comments re the O2 paperwork do not follow any discussion about a reunion tour. The interviewer has put that slant on it, and yet again people start lining up to give Robert the flack. He has more than enough reasons not to want to tour with a reunited Led Zeppelin, he doesn't need to throw in ones about paperwork.

Ironic how yesterday's quip was followed by today's news of a potential replacement.

We all know he's making no effort to suggest he'd like to reunite for recording or touring; his tone is clear from this article and countless others.

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i think the firm was an actual band with a sound compared to page/coverdale. -the firm had some interesting sounding stuff, but maybe requires more listening than page-coverdale.

Thats a fair point, I do from time to time go and listen to The Firm and am sometimes surprised that its better than I thought !!

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Ironic how yesterday's quip was followed by today's news of a potential replacement.

We all know he's making no effort to suggest he'd like to reunite for recording or touring; his tone is clear from this article and countless others.

And yet he never made an excuse about "paperwork" to justify it. Which was my point. :rolleyes:

Plus the timing of today's "news" is nothing to do with him (and that interview was not given "yesterday"). This is very old news to him and all of the Zeppelin members.

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Thats a fair point, I do from time to time go and listen to The Firm and am sometimes surprised that its better than I thought !!

I find that as well, but honestly, I could do without seeing Radioactive VH1 shows from time to time. Maybe the shock of seeing Jimmy in his first MTV video is still fresh in my mind....!

:lol:

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I find that as well, but honestly, I could do without seeing Radioactive VH1 shows from time to time. Maybe the shock of seeing Jimmy in his first MTV video is still fresh in my mind....!

:lol:

Isn't that where he wears his white silk scarf in the video??

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Um yeah, and his black boots, too. But Paul's got his scarf as well. Jeeze, just thinking about it, the whole video makes me a bundle of nerves...

I know what you mean, and doesn't the bottle come out as a slide too :unsure::D

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I have these two -firm shows now and from listening, am enjoying the soloing he had going on with that band live, but also those muddy choppy sections in the solos, which is so trademark -page...really cool. like black dog, travellin riverside blues, heartbreaker....but yeah ^-beatbo, so unlike anything from -zeppelin and a new sound.

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I know what you mean, and doesn't the bottle come out as a slide too :unsure::D

nah, wrong video.....

the bottle as a slide, in a sweaty bar, with les paul as the bartender and mai lin (john lennons girlfriend) is 'satisfaction guaranteed'

satisfaction guaranteed

here is some live firm, with page on the danelectro, playing some old zeppelin riffs that turned into "midnight moonlight"

here's one of my favorite page solos and firm songs 'closer'

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In the end I stand by what I earlier posted about C/P. The production is terrible. I'd rather hear an under-produced album than layers of bullshit thrown on for no particular reason just to fill out that there is no song structure. I despise that. Personal thing.

You just described the production of just about every Zeppelin tune there is. :D

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nah, wrong video.....

the bottle as a slide, in a sweaty bar, with les paul as the bartender and mai lin (john lennons girlfriend) is 'satisfaction guaranteed'

satisfaction guaranteed

here is some live firm, with page on the danelectro, playing some old zeppelin riffs that turned into "midnight moonlight"

here's one of my favorite page solos and firm songs 'closer'

Yeh of course it is, I even have that video on a compilation video...DOH.

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