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heavybluesfan

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  1. That's certainly true about the movie but, regarding the DAC segment I was talking about, there's not a huge difference until you get to around 5:20 in the link I posted compared with my 40 year old vinyl album, when they've bolted on a completely unrelated part in the movie. There's also an error on the album that's been cleaned up on the DAC movie link I posted (around 5:07) and which I think was also present on the older version of the movie. I remember Jimmy saying at the time of its release that he'd made the decision to keep the album as honest as possible and not to clean it up. Apart from that though that segment I mentioned seems pretty good to these ears. I'm sure you're absolutely right about Jimmy's presence on the occasions you saw him.
  2. I was never a huge Sabbath fan but if a guy had an injury to use as an excuse it was Iommi. I was amazed what he could do with various parts of various fingers missing and he always sounded pretty good to me, fingers or no fingers. I'm sure you're much better informed about him than I am though so I'm not really in a position to make a judgement. PS - And IpMan - thanks for the reply
  3. A thoughtful and generally impartial post, a lot of which I agree with. Yes, it's often not easy to be objective when it comes to our heroes, as some here, including yourself, have acknowledged. I do discern, though, something of a shift amongst some of these people in recent days, particularly with regard to 02 and 1998, from citing these as examples of Jimmy back to near, or even better than, his early 1970s level but, when presented with evidence that clearly illustrates the contrary, to then inadvertently acknowledge this by listing a myriad of reasons, from health issues to age, for Jimmy's decline. This, of course, completely misses the point. For whatever reason, however valid, Jimmy is not as good as he was. For what it's worth, I believe Jimmy had a reasonable stab at things in 1998, but was no more than moderate, even considering other factors, at the 02. It has indeed been many years since Jimmy has been as technically proficient as the elites, but I actually think he could have been a virtuoso on the instrument if he'd practised more and taken fewer drugs, but of course these are ifs, buts and maybes, and that is not how Jimmy was/is. For instance, the segment I mentioned in my previous post from TSRTS Dazed And Confused is pretty much perfection in my opinion, great technical proficiency but with enough looseness and spontaneity to emote in spades, and far, far better than the technically perfect but clinical and sterile guitarists who have already been mentioned (if anyone wants me to analyse its brilliance I'd be more than happy to do so but I suspect it would bore everyone even more than Jimmy's 02SIBLY solo bores me), PS - hope you liked my 02TSRTS comparison you requested My criticism of Jimmy has nothing to do with him slowing his solos for 02. Quite the opposite. A slow solo, evocatively played with sufficient technical proficiency to achieve its aim, is often the best of all (as I previously said, think David Gilmour). The problem is Jimmy achieved neither of these at 02. His solos were invariably far too simplistic and error strewn, and I used SIBLY as an example to illustrate this in my previous post. Again, as I've already said, the last thing I want is to watch someone robotically play a technically perfect but clinical and sterile solo. The ideal for me is a certain looseness and spontaneity to give it heart and feeling but with enough technique to do it justice - that's why the segment in TSRTS Dazed And Confused I highlighted in my previous post always does it for me, time after time. As others have said, and as I've concurred, I accept it is often very difficult to be impartial where your heroes are concerned. The problem is this can so easily lead to poor judgement. In the meantime I would still welcome your thoughts on the 02SIBLY solo, especially the slow part, which I highlighted in my previous post. For instance, do you find it evocative and moving, or do you think it is too simplistic and error strewn to achieve this? Look forward to reading your comments. PS - No need to tell me you've played for years so you must know what you're talking about. I think I've got the message now
  4. No offence was ever taken so no apology necessary. I'm just puzzled why some people such as yourself feel the need to say they've played the guitar for years so they must know what they're talking about, as if this gives their opinions more validity than those who haven't played Personally I would leave it to others here to decide whether such people know what they're talking about. 02SIBLY is an interesting example so I think it's worth returning to. You quite rightly mention David Gilmour as one of the best exponents of the slow solo. You also say you're glad Jimmy slowed down the SIBLY solos because it added gravity to them. This simply isn't true. What Gilmour is able to achieve is light years ahead of what Jimmy is doing In 02SIBLY. In the solo from 1:02:23 to 1:03:38 (see 02 link in last but one post), Jimmy is invariably forced to slow things down not by choice, but because he has just messed up a fast run, and even the slow stuff is so mistake ridden that, as he is struggling so much, it is an effort for him simply to get through the solo with something that's half coherent. Mistakes aside, there is zero gravity, emotion, whatever you wish to call it, For example, the slow passage from 1:02:25 to 1:02:42 is a tedious, repetitive, so simplistic to be virtually novice level, uninspired and uninspiring, meaningless dirge, and that's ignoring any technical errors. Anyway, any thoughts from anyone on this are appreciated. OK, I've been critical of later Jimmy but to redress the balance I'd like to close with something that still gives me goose bumps 40 years on, a segment from TSRTS Dazed And Confused, 4:05 to 5:20 in the link below. Love Bonzo in this, and when Jimmy takes off around 4:29, YEEEEAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!!!
  5. No, neither of those things. Both would be extremely boring. In his live performances in his heyday of the early 70s Jimmy would rarely play a song the same way twice, and I'm sure that's exactly how most of us would want it, and that's one of the things that made those Led Zeppelin shows so great. What I'm referring to is a decline in his technical ability. For instance, in my previous post when I talked about playing Since I've Been Loving You in the correct way, I'm referring to it being played with a sufficient level of difficulty and proficiency to do the song justice, and this was not the case at 02 2007. I'm not referring to the content of those solos having to be the same every time - quite the opposite. And ipMan from the "I 've played for years so I must know what I'm talking about" brigade, hope you're liking the 'gravity' of the slow parts of the 02 SIBLY solo from 1:02:23 to 1:03:38, mistakes, tedium 'n' all. A truly awful solo even by Jimmy's later standards. I'd be interested to hear the views of others on that solo alone to see if they felt the 'gravity' too. I don't care if someone has been playing for 40 years or if they've never picked up a guitar in their life, to me their opinions are equally valid. You don't need to be able to play an instrument to appreciate it being played - music is there to be listened to, not analysed, and if you get enjoyment from Jimmy's later performances that's a good thing because it's enriching your life. I was simply pointing out that Jimmy is not as technically proficient as he was in the early 70s, and hasn't been for a very long time. PS - good discussion with a good range of views
  6. You got it. As a number of people here have cited 02 '07 along with Page and Plant '98 as examples of Jimmy being as good as in '73, I was about to do exactly that. So, starting with 02 '07, and the requested TSRTS comparison: It's hard to imagine but, in some respects, this is even worse than Knebworth 79. The opening chords (1:27:52 to 1:28:02) are a complete mess, lacking any finesse and control, due to a combination of poor picking and timing and an absence of any right hand dampening. When we arrive at what should be the lead solo at 1:30:27 we get - nothing. The solo has gone AWOL, and when Jimmy eventually realises this, several seconds later, we get the same cachophonic shambles (1:30:31 to 1:30:39 and 1:30:50 to 1:30:58) all too familiar to those unfortunates who have been subjected to the Knebworth debacle. There's more nonsense later in the song but that's already plenty for the eardrums to stomach. If anyone still needs convincing Jimmy is light years away from his early 70s form, have a look at Since I've Been Loving You. I was amazed that this track was even considered for inclusion as, if performed properly, with all the necessary solos performed in the correct way, this is pretty much as demanding as it gets. Unsurprisingly, Jimmy did not perform the song properly, and the stripped down, simplistic solos he did include were still incredibly error strewn (ie, multiple errors between 1:02:42 and 1:02:45 alone), and plenty of less obvious ones such as unintentionally picked open strings (ie 1:03:13 and 1:03:15). As for Plant and Page 98, I think this is a half decent concert, certainly much better than 02 '07, and at least Jimmy is having a decent stab at things: That said, when Jimmy attempts a fast solo they lack any subtlety or control and he invariably messes up very quickly. Just taking a small selection of a few of the errors from one solo from Heartbreaker as an example, multiple errors 9:31 to 9:34, more individual errors 10:09, 10:13, 10:23, multiple errors 10:30 to 10:32 etc etc. But this has a very high degree of difficulty and, unlike Since I've Been Loving You at 02 '07 above, at least he's having a go at the complex stuff. I also think some of his slower solos were still pretty effective at this time, ie No Quarter 31:50 to 32:16, and these also have the benefit of giving his vibrato time to breathe and be heard properly. So, for me, despite still being nowhere near early 70s level, Page and Plant 98 is probably at or near the best I've heard Jimmy since the late 70s, although that's not saying a great deal. PS - To the previous poster, I'm sure there are plenty of people here who have played to audiences (in my case VERY low level stuff in the 70s) without feeling the need to broadcast it in order to somehow add credibility to their comments. And no - the irony isn't lost on me
  7. I was talking about something similar to this on a general music forum but wanted to find a more in depth discussion. The first time I saw Led Zeppelin live was at Ally Pally in 1972 and I was blown away, especially by Jimmy. The next time I saw them live was at Knebworth in 1979 and I couldn't believe how bad Jimmy was. I don't mean sloppy or a bit off, but dreadful. Most of the solos had gone AWOL but he was also struggling with the absolute basics, such as an inability to form simple chords properly or even to keep time. Clearly something catastrophic had happened. From the various sources I've read it would seem Jimmy's drug taking, more specifically, his heroin addiction, started to become a serious problem around 75/76. Jimmy himself says the excessive drug taking and general overindulgence was out of control by the time of the 73 US tour, but that it didn't have an effect on his playing until several years later. Either way, from the late 70s until the present day, Jimmy has been unable to reach anywhere near the standard he performed at in the early 70s. Drugs effectively destroyed a World class guitarist. To illustrate his decline, here are 2 clips of The Song Remains The Same, the first from the 73 US tour, the second from Knebworth in 79: US tour 73: Here Jimmy displays World class brilliance. He's got the lot; speed, precision, originality and, above all, musicality. There are so many highlights but, for instance, there's the traditional style lead solo (ie, 2:48 to 2:57) but also a very original and rapid arpeggio solo (3:08 to 3:17). Compare that with the same song from Knebworth 79: Very sad. Jimmy is, quite simply, dreadful. All the lead solos have gone and he struggles even to play rudimentary chords, and when he attempts the arpeggio solo at 2:49 to 2:59 all he can manage is a succession of out of time bum notes and his laughter suggests he too realises how abysmal he is. 4:10 to 4:20 is embarrassingly bad, 4:34 to 4:40 even worse, as if someone has picked up a guitar for the first time and is just messing around. So, is Jimmy a sloppy player? No. He's worse than than that, but was brilliant until st least 1973. At the end of the day though he has given us some outstanding music and enriched our lives. That alone warrants extreme gratitude.
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