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Zep and the Beatles


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DEAR REG....

as i've said many posts back, we all know that sales doesn't define greatness, but all your rebuttals are just...uh...well. sorry, reg...

There was a single of Sgt Peppers / With A Little Help From My Friends released in Oz in 1978, 12 years after the album was released, not no. 1 though.

"hey jude" not on an album until after the beatles broke up. their top selling single.

"yesterday" not on an album in the u.k. and did not make an album appearance until "yesterday and today" in the u.s. (a year after it's release as a single)

the "white album" is one of the greatest albums ever recorded....no singles.

it was the beatles "abbey road" that zep moved out of the number one album spot for their first no. 1...

I reckon most people have replaced an album or two over the years from breakage or loss and wear and tear etc.

So numbers don't mean much when there are repeat buyers and simply because not everyone of those sales of a billion albums were sold to a billion individuals.

oh my god...okay. i suppose zep fans (including you and i) have never replaced an album previously purchased? zeppelin fans have bought so many releases of the catalog that jimmy page can't keep up. i want what you're smoking...

Zeppelin didn't record many songs under three minutes and conversely The Beatles never released many over and for that reason alone proves Zep were the superior album band.

as groucho marx would say: "that's the most ridiculous thing i ever heard..."

i have already agreed with you about zep being THE album band, but this criteria is simply ludicrous. i mean, we have to go back and count now the minutes on all the songs to see if you're right? i remember plenty of short songs from zep but i ain't even gonna go there...

One thing about some of The Beatles albums (Rubber Soul for example), is they could be interpreted as "best of's" because of the content.

best of??? the american version of "rubber soul deleted "drive my car", "nowhere man" (2 no. one singles, disproving your singles=album sales theory), "if i needed someone", and "what goes on". it added two left overs from the u.k. version of the "help" soundtrack: "i've just seen a face" "and "it's only love". capitol's rearranging of the tracks on this album has the feel of a "folk-rock/bob dylan" make over. but "norwegian wood"? "in my life"? the british mag Q voted rubber soul the 21st greatest ALBUM of all time.

oh, "rubber soul" recorded in 4 weeks. including this album, the beatles released SIX albums between nov. 1963 and dec. 1965...TWO YEARS!

don't mess with the beatles, reg. it ain't your cup of tea....

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Er, YES, i'm talking about how the Media, TV, Radio, Newspapers didnt give Rock Music in General and Led Zeppelin in particular, any Air Time or Colum Space, not the Fans or the Fan base.

I cant remember, apart from an interview by "Whispering Bob Harris" on "The Old Grey Whistle Test" any time Led Zeppelin were seen on British TV, there was no Radio Station that would Entertain their Music either, their only concern was with Pop Music, like with the "Beatles" in the 60s, even to this day the British Media in General is more interested in a Fashonable, Trendy, Young, Good Loking Band than one thet has Real Talent like the sort of Talent that Led Zeppelin had.

The "Different Day" i'm talking about is between 1969 through to 1975.

Took this from BBC Home.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/southampton/music/ogwt_memories.shtml

Dino, Coleraine N Ireland

"Probabaly seeing Alice Cooper for the first time and thinking what the hell is that, but liking the rock n roll!! [under My Wheels I think?]

Also watching every week for anything to do with Led Zeppelin which never happened unfortunately except getting Trampled Underfoot played with one of the ubiquitous "cartoons". Gutted I was!"

If you prove me wrong Aqua i'm booking a Lobotomy straight away mate. ;)

Kind Regards, Danny

OK, we're talking my high school and college years, which were an amazing time to be a music fan, unless you got all your music info from the BBC! Those were the years of pirate radio, of all the underground media, then Peel on Radio One with all his weekly live broadcasts (including Zep) as well as many other bands not considered mainstream (and remember there were fewer media outlets then anyway). If you're just talking Zep, I heard them for the first time on the radio, they were plastered all over Sounds, NME, Melody Maker, Disc, etc. etc. every week, along with all the other bands who weren't on the BBC! There was How It Is on TV every week, in fact, too. Rock music wasn't something we ever EXPECTED to hear about in the mainstream media--that was its whole point, in a way--but there was no difficulty getting access to and information about it.

My friends and I went to gigs constantly during this period, seeing some of the best bands in the world--gigs that were always packed--and never gave a single thought to how we wished we'd been born in America! I didn't know anybody who felt that way, and still don't, so I stand by my point. But then I didn't know you then! :D

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OK, we're talking my high school and college years, which were an amazing time to be a music fan, unless you got all your music info from the BBC! Those were the years of pirate radio, of all the underground media, then Peel on Radio One with all his weekly live broadcasts (including Zep) as well as many other bands not considered mainstream (and remember there were fewer media outlets then anyway). If you're just talking Zep, I heard them for the first time on the radio, they were plastered all over Sounds, NME, Melody Maker, Disc, etc. etc. every week, along with all the other bands who weren't on the BBC! There was How It Is on TV every week, in fact, too. Rock music wasn't something we ever EXPECTED to hear about in the mainstream media--that was its whole point, in a way--but there was no difficulty getting access to and information about it.

My friends and I went to gigs constantly during this period, seeing some of the best bands in the world--gigs that were always packed--and never gave a single thought to how we wished we'd been born in America! I didn't know anybody who felt that way, and still don't, so I stand by my point. But then I didn't know you then! :D

Hi Aqua,

I agree with a lot of what you have said here, but as i said that it was the Media through TV, Radio, Newspapers, i consider Sounds, NME, Melody Maker, Disc, as putting out reports to the already converted, the Main Media of the UK had nothing constructive to do with Led Zeppelin compared to the Blanket Coverage that they gave the Beatles half a decade earlier.

Thats my point, the Beatles were Pop and got the coverage.

Led Zeppelin were Blues Rock, and didnt.

We were both arround at the time this was happening, if we see it differently then we see it differently.

As far as Americia is concerned i have had many reports from friends and associates that traveled extensively all over Americia and from Americans that i have met and they all said that Led Zeppelin were treated like Royalty over there and their songs were played by radio stations everywhere, unlike here, thats the only point i'm making.

Now do i need to book up with the Surgeon or you gonna let me off with this one, remember i did change you back from being a Frog, didnt i? ;)

Regards, Danny

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Hi Aqua,

I agree with a lot of what you have said here, but as i said that it was the Media through TV, Radio, Newspapers, i consider Sounds, NME, Melody Maker, Disc, as putting out reports to the already converted, the Main Media of the UK had nothing constructive to do with Led Zeppelin compared to the Blanket Coverage that they gave the Beatles half a decade earlier.

Thats my point, the Beatles were Pop and got the coverage.

Led Zeppelin were Blues Rock, and didnt.

We were both arround at the time this was happening, if we see it differently then we see it differently.

As far as Americia is concerned i have had many reports from friends and associates that traveled extensively all over Americia and from Americans that i have met and they all said that Led Zeppelin were treated like Royalty over there and their songs were played by radio stations everywhere, unlike here, thats the only point i'm making.

Now do i need to book up with the Surgeon or you gonna let me off with this one, remember i did change you back from being a Frog, didnt i? ;)

Regards, Danny

Yeah, you did change me back, so I guess I'll let you off. :D

Couple of points, though--the Rolling Stones got a lot of coverage after the Beatles in the mainstream press because they were bad boys always being arrested, and that was something new for our musical heroes, but after that no band got that sort of coverage, Zeppelin or anyone else, and we wouldn't have wanted them to. The musical landscape had changed completely, there were far more bands, and there was a much more anti-establishment vibe. I didn't want the bands I liked to be the kind the Daily Mail wrote about all the time! The only exceptions were, as you said, the really successful pop bands, such as the Monkees.

And remember that for a lot of the time in question, the UK only had one radio station that played rock, with the creation of Radio 1, so it's not surprising Zep got more airtime in a country with infinitely more radio stations (and they were played on some shows on Radio 1, admittedly not on all). It comes back to what longdistancewinner and I were saying the other day, it's just a question of the countries being such different sizes. Unless of course you're going to tell me size doesn't matter. ;)

Anyway, I don't think we really disagree that much. But much as we all loved American bands back then, I don't remember anybody wanting to be born anywhere but Britain, honestly!

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Yeah, you did change me back, so I guess I'll let you off. :D

Couple of points, though--the Rolling Stones got a lot of coverage after the Beatles in the mainstream press because they were bad boys always being arrested, and that was something new for our musical heroes, but after that no band got that sort of coverage, Zeppelin or anyone else, and we wouldn't have wanted them to. The musical landscape had changed completely, there were far more bands, and there was a much more anti-establishment vibe. I didn't want the bands I liked to be the kind the Daily Mail wrote about all the time! The only exceptions were, as you said, the really successful pop bands, such as the Monkees.

And remember that for a lot of the time in question, the UK only had one radio station that played rock, with the creation of Radio 1, so it's not surprising Zep got more airtime in a country with infinitely more radio stations (and they were played on some shows on Radio 1, admittedly not on all). It comes back to what longdistancewinner and I were saying the other day, it's just a question of the countries being such different sizes. Unless of course you're going to tell me size doesn't matter. ;)

Anyway, I don't think we really disagree that much. But much as we all loved American bands back then, I don't remember anybody wanting to be born anywhere but Britain, honestly!

You are so sweet Aqua i could, well i could, and that all you need to know really. :kiss:

Remember Nicky Horne? I remember him way back in the 70s, he was about the only DJ to play Zepp stuff and i know he was a big fan too. When Phtsical Graffiti was about to be released he played one track every night for two weeks just to give us a taster, what a gent, Nicky to you mate. :beer:

I used to go to a Pub in Bickley Kent on a Sunday night where Nicky Horne was the DJ, he would always say this a the start of his stint "Lets start as we mean to finnish" and a Led Zepp tune would fill the place with noise, at the end of the night, true to his word he would finnish up with "Stairway" with everyone lighting up matches or lighters and holding them in the air while sitting calmly on the dance floor, well untill the solo began then all the Air Guitar Affictionados would play along with Pagey without missing a note or facial expression, what brilliant times. I actually got to know him quite well, well as much as you can him being a DJ and me being a nosey sod. :D

Now as for your last comment, " I don't remember anybody wanting to be born anywhere but Britain, honestly!" well you do now, i was told by my aunt many years ago that my Mum used to go out, "Yanking It" as she called it, she used to date American Servicemen, well i had always had an affinity towards "Texas" and as you know they make everything Big in "Texas", thats why i walk with a limp. :lol:

Which should answer your other question, "Unless of course you're going to tell me size doesn't matter." shouldnt it? ;)

Kind Regards, Danny

PS. I still think that the UK Media in general gave little to no time or respect to Led Zeppelin, the US were much more appeasing, and i think it has to do with a lot of bias on their part, we should thank the US, espesially its people for the way they welcomed our boys in to therir hearts and homes, to you US of A and its People. :beer:

I also think that Janet Street Porter should be "Hung by her Bits" for axing "The old Grey Whistle Test" from BBC2, just my opinion.

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DEAR REG....

as i've said many posts back, we all know that sales doesn't define greatness, but all your rebuttals are just...uh...well. sorry, reg...

Rebuttals? Discussion and opinion pal!

"hey jude" not on an album until after the beatles broke up. their top selling single.

"yesterday" not on an album in the u.k. and did not make an album appearance until "yesterday and today" in the u.s. (a year after it's release as a single)

the "white album" is one of the greatest albums ever recorded....no singles.

it was the beatles "abbey road" that zep moved out of the number one album spot for their first no. 1...

Exactly two different eras with the old making way for the new.

It was obvious The Beatles were getting stale what with all the infighting and all the other shit with Yoko and such.

oh my god...okay. i suppose zep fans (including you and i) have never replaced an album previously purchased? zeppelin fans have bought so many releases of the catalog that jimmy page can't keep up. i want what you're smoking...

My point exactly. I have worn out so many vinyls and broken tapes in 40 years.

Bought all the boxed sets (vinyl, cassette and cd X 2), not to mention The Beatles albums.

You couldn't handle what I'm smokin'! :blink:

as groucho marx would say: "that's the most ridiculous thing i ever heard..."

i have already agreed with you about zep being THE album band, but this criteria is simply ludicrous. i mean, we have to go back and count now the minutes on all the songs to see if you're right? i remember plenty of short songs from zep but i ain't even gonna go there...

What's with all the hostility and belligerence?

Lighten up mate. Just making an observation not arguing with you.

best of??? the american version of "rubber soul deleted "drive my car", "nowhere man" (2 no. one singles, disproving your singles=album sales theory), "if i needed someone", and "what goes on". it added two left overs from the u.k. version of the "help" soundtrack: "i've just seen a face" "and "it's only love". capitol's rearranging of the tracks on this album has the feel of a "folk-rock/bob dylan" make over. but "norwegian wood"? "in my life"? the british mag Q voted rubber soul the 21st greatest ALBUM of all time.

Shows you how dumb and greedy American record companies are, doesn't it?

Australian Rubber Soul track list (from the original cassette I bought all those years ago and still play):

Side 1

Drive My Car

Norwegian Wood

You Won't See Me

Nowhere Man (Also appeared in Yellow Submarine the movie and soundtrack)

Think For Yourself

The Word

Michelle

Side 2

What Goes On

Girl

I'm Looking Through You

In My Life

Wait

If I Needed Someone

Run For Your Life

I'm surprised it didn't rate higher.

oh, "rubber soul" recorded in 4 weeks. including this album, the beatles released SIX albums between nov. 1963 and dec. 1965...TWO YEARS!

So what? All that means is they spent a lot of time in the studio.

Zeppelin I recorded in 39 days and II released in the same year, so what?

don't mess with the beatles, reg. it ain't your cup of tea....

I'll mess with whomever I please and tea is for the British.

Real men drink beer and not that Budweiser piss either! ;)

"All You Need Is (Whole Lotta) Love......" "Everybody."

'Ave a good one, Beat.

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Remember Nicky Horne? I remember him way back in the 70s, he was about the only DJ to play Zepp stuff and i know he was a big fan too. When Phtsical Graffiti was about to be released he played one track every night for two weeks just to give us a taster, what a gent, Nicky to you mate. :beer:

I do indeed, very well. He's still around, isn't he? He was great, though he wasn't quite the only one to play Zep--Peelie beat him to it, and in fact it was on his show that I first discovered them, when the first album came out. But they were/are both great guys. A glass to both of them! :beer:

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"All You Need Is (Whole Lotta) Love......" "Everybody."

'Ave a good one, Beat.

good on ya, reg...

i've never met a record company from anywhere that wasn't greedy.

i wasn't trying to be hostile, just as you weren't trying to be dumb.

i love zeppelin, reg, but i love the beatles, too. the whole record sales thing was a demonstration in how ridiculous the whole argument is. i know folks get their backs up when someone mentions more sales than zep, but beatles were the top when it comes to that and i was trying to steer the thread to more personal observations. i was counting on you, but your "discussion" points stayed in the hole, so to speak. but i understand how zep makes one feel and no hard feelings on my end. but if you want to knock the beatles, i'd stay away from the recording part of it. the live venue is where led zeppelin reigns supreme over all and had you and i steered that way, i'd be singing your praises.

i'd say "fuck budweiser" but evster's prolly listening...

i don't drink, myself, but i do love tea....

i have a good one, reg. thanks anyway, though.... :D

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i almost forgot, reg...

even you can't deny the quality of the music, the amount of output, and the tour commitments...

So what? All that means is they spent a lot of time in the studio.

beatles tour schedule jan '63-dec. 65

(doesn't include radio performance and t/v/ appearances with the exception of ed sullivan)

TOUR OF SCOTLAND, 1963

3 January Two Red Shoes, Elgin

4 January Town Hall, Dingwall

5 January Museum Hall, Bridge of Allan

6 January Beach Ballroom, Aberdeen

UK DATES, January 1963

10 January Grafton Rooms, Liverpool

11 January Cavern Club, Liverpool

11 January Plaza Ballroom, Old Hill

12 January Invicta Ballroom, Chatham

14 January Civic Hall, Wirral

17 January Cavern Club, Liverpool

17 January Majestic Ballroom, Birkenhead

18 January Floral Hall, Morecambe

19 January Town Hall, Whitchurch

20 January Cavern Club, Liverpool

23 January Cavern Club, Liverpool

24 January Assembly Hall, Flintshire

25 January Co-operative Hall, Darwen

26 January El Rio Club, Macclesfield

26 January King’s Hall, Stoke-on-Trent

27 January Three Coins Club, Manchester

28 January Majestic Ballroom, Newcastle-upon-Tyne

30 January Cavern Club, Liverpool

1 February Assembly Rooms, Tamworth

1 February Maney Hall, Sutton Coldfield

HELEN SHAPIRO TOUR PART 1, 1963

2 February Gaumont, Bradford

BREAK IN TOUR

3 February Cavern Club, Liverpool

4 February Cavern Club, Liverpool

RESUME TOUR

5 February Gaumont, Doncaster

6 February Granada, Bedford

7 February Regal, Kirkgate

8 February ABC, Carlisle

9 February Empire, Sunderland

BREAK IN TOUR

12 February Azena Ballroom, Sheffield

12 February Astoria Ballroom, Oldham

13 February Majestic Ballroom, Hull

14 February Locarno Ballroom, Liverpool

15 February Ritz, Birmingham

16 February Carfax Assembly, Oxford

18 February Queen’s Hall, Widness

19 February Cavern Club, Liverpool

20 February Swimming Baths, Docanster

21 February Majestic Ballroom, Birkenhead

22 February Oasis Club, Manchester

HELEN SHAPIRO TOUR PART 2

23 February Granada, Mansfield

24 February Coventry Theatre, Coventry

26 February Gaumont, Taunton

27 February Rialto, York

28 February Granada, Shrewsbury

1 March Odeon, Southport

2 March City Hall, Sheffield

3 March Gaurnont, Hanley

UK DATES, March 1963

4 March Plaza Ballroom, St. Helens

7 March Elizabethan Ballroom, Nottingham

8 March The Royal Hall, Harrogate

TOMMY ROE/CHRIS MONTEZ TOUR, 1963

9 March Granada, East Ham

10 March Hippodrome, Birmingham

12 March Granada, Bedford

13 March Rialto, York

14 March Gaumont, Wolverhampton

15 March Colston Hall, Bristol

16 March City Hall, Sheffield

17 March Embassy, Peterborough

18 March Regal, Gloucester

19 March Regal, Cambridge

20 March ABC, Romford

21 March ABC, Croydon

22 March Gaumont, Doncaster

23 March City Hall, Newcastle-upon-Tyne

24 March Empire, Liverpool

26 March Granada, Mansfield

27 March ABC, Northampton

28 March ABC, Exeter

29 March Odeon, Lewisham

30 March Guildhall, Portsmouth

31 March De Montfort Hall, Leicester

UK DATES, Spring 1963

4 April Roxburgh Hall, Stowe

5 April Swimming Baths, Leyton, London

6 April Pavilion Gardens, Buxton

7 April Savoy Ballroom, Portsmouth

9 April Gaumont State Cinema, Kilburn, London

10 April Majestic Ballroom, Birkenhead

11 April Co-operative Hall, Middleton

12 April Cavern Club, Liverpool

15 April Riverside Dancing Club, Tenbury Wells

17 April Majestic Ballroom, Luton

18 April Swimming Sound ’63, Royal Albert Hall, London

19 April King’s Hall, Stoke-on-Trent

20 April Mersey View Pleasure Grounds, Warrington

21 April NME Poll Winners Concert, Empire Pool, Wembley

21 April Pigalle Club, Piccadilly, London

23 April Floral Hall, Southport

24 April Majestic Ballroom, Finsbury Park, London

25 April Fairfield Hall, Croydon

26 April Music Hall, Shrewsbury

27 April Memorial Hall, Northwich

11 May Imperial Ballroom, Nelson

14 May Rink Ballroom, Sunderland

15 May Royalty Theatre, Chester

17 May Grosvenor Rooms, Norwich

ROY ORBISON/BEATLES TOUR, 1963

18 May Adelphi, Slough

19 May Gaumont, Hanley

20 May Gaumont, Southampton

22 May Gaumont, Ipswich

23 May Odeon, Nottingham

24 May Granada, Walthamstow

25 May City Hall, Sheffield

26 May Empire, Liverpool

28 May Gaumont, Worcester

29 May Rialto, York

30 May Odeon, Manchester

31 May Odeon, Southend-on-Sea

1 June Granada, Tooting

2 June Hippodrome, Brighton

3 June Granada, Woolwich

4 June Town Hall, Birmingham

5 June Odeon, Leeds

7 June Odeon, Glasgow

8 June City Hall, Newcastle-upon-Tyne

9 June King George's Hall, Blackburn

UK DATES, Summer 1963

10 June Pavilion, Bath

12 June Grafton Rooms, Liverpool

13 June Palace Theatre Club, Cheshire

13 June Southern Sporting Club, Manchester

14 June Tower Ballroom, New Brighton

15 June City Hall, Salisbury

16 June Odeon Cinema, Romford

21 June Odeon Cinema, Guildford

22 June Town Hall, Monmouthshire

25 June Astoria Ballroom, Middlesbrough

26 June Majestic Ballroom, Newcastle-upon-Tyne

28 June Queen’s Hall, Leeds

30 June ABC Cinema, Great Yarmouth

5 July Plaza Ballroom, Old Hill

6 July Memorial Hall, Northwich

7 July ABC Theatre, Blackpool

8-13 July Winter Gardens, Margate

14 July ABC Theatre, Blackpool

19-20 July Ritz Ballroom, Flintshire

21 July Queen’s Theatre, Blackpool

22-27 July Odeon Theatre, Weston-super-Mare

28 July ABC Cinema, Great Yarmouth

31 July Imperial Ballroom, Nelson

2 August Grafton Rooms, Liverpool

3 August Cavern Club, Liverpool

4 August Queen’s Theatre, Blackpool

5 August Abbotsfield Park, Urmston

6-7 August The Springfield Ballroom, Jersey, Channel Islands

8 August Candie Gardens, Guernssey, Channel Islands

9-10 August The Springfield Ballroom, Jersey, Channel Islands

11 August ABC Theatre, Blackpool

12-17 August Odeon Cinema, Caernarvonshire

18 August Princess Theatre Torquay

19-24 August Gaumont Cinema, Bournemouth

25 August ABC Cinema, Blackpool

26-31 August Odeon Cinema, Southport

4 September Gaumont Cinema, Worcester

5 September Gaumont Cinema, Taunton

6 September Odeon Cinema, Luton

7 September Fairfield Hall, Croydon

8 September ABC Theatre, Blackpool

13 September Public Hall, Preston

14 September Memorial Hall, Northwich

15 September Great Pop Prom, Royal Albert Hall, London

BEATLES MINI-TOUR OF SCOTLAND, 1963

5 October Concert Hall, Glasgow

6 October Carlton, Kirkcaldy

7 October Caird Hall, Dundee

UK DATES, October 1963

11 October Trentham Gardens, Trentham

13 October London Palladium, London

15 October Floral Hall, Southport

19 October Pavilion Gardens Ballroom, Buxton

BEATLES TOUR OF SWEDEN, 1963

25 October Sundsta-aulan, Karlstad

26 October Kungliga Hallen, Stockholm

27 October Cirkus, Goteborg

28 October Borashallen, Boras

29 October Sporthallen, Eskilstuna

BEATLES AUTUMN TOUR, 1963

1 November Odeon, Cheltenham

2 November City Hall, Sheffield

3 November Odeon, Leeds

BREAK IN TOUR

4 November Royal Variety Show, Prince of Wales Theatre, London

RESUME TOUR

5 November Adelphi, Slough

6 November ABC, Northampton

7 November Adelphi, Dublin

8 November Ritz, Belfast

9 November Granada, East Ham

10 November Hippodrome, Birmingham

13 November ABC, Plymouth

14 November ABC, Exeter

15 November Colston Hall, Bristol

16 November Winter Gardens, Bournemouth

17 November Coventry Theatre, Coventry

19 November Gaumont, Wolverhampton

20 November ABC, Ardwick

21 November ABC, Carlisle

22 November Globe, Stockton-on-Tees

23 November City Hall, Newcastle-upon-Tyne

24 November ABC, Hull

26 November Regal, Cambridge

27 November Rialto, York

28 November ABC, Lincoln

29 November ABC, Huddersfield

30 November Empire, Sunderland

1 December De Montfort Hall, Leicester

BREAK IN TOUR

2 December Grosvenor House Hotel, London

RESUME TOUR

3 December Guildhall, Portsmouth

BREAK IN TOUR

7 December Empire Theatre, Liverpool

RESUME TOUR

7 December Odeon, Liverpool

8 December Odeon, Lewisham

9 December Odeon, Southend-on-Sea

10 December Gaumont, Doncaster

11 December Futurist, Scarborough

12 December Odeon, Nottingham

13 December Gaumont, Southampton

END OF TOUR

14 December Wimbledon Palais, Wimbledon, London

THE BEATLES CHRISTMAS SHOW, 1963

21 December Christmas Show Preview, Gaumont Cinema, Bradford

22 December Christmas Show Preview, Empire Theatre, Liverpool

24 December The Beatles Christmas Show, Astoria Cinema, London

26-28 December The Beatles Christmas Show, Astoria Cinema, London

30-31 December The Beatles Christmas Show, Astoria Cinema, London

1964

1-4 January The Beatles Christmas Show, Astoria Cinema, London

5-11 January The Beatles Christmas Show, Astoria Cinema, London

END SHOW

12 January London Palladium, London

VISIT TO FRANCE, 1964

15 January Cinema Cyrano, Versailles

16 January – 4 February Olympia Theatre, Paris

VISIT TO USA, 1964

9 February Ed Sullivan Show, CBS Television Studios, New York City

11 February Washington Coliseum, Washington DC

12 February Carnegie Hall, New York City

16 February Ed Sullivan Show, Deauville Hotel, Miami

RETURN TO UK, 1964

26 April NME Poll Winners Concert, Empire Pool, Wembley

29 April ABC Cinema, Midlothian

30 April Odeon Cinema, Glasgow

31 May Prince of Wales Theatre, London

THE WORLD TOUR, 1964

4 June K.B. Hallen Gardens, Copenhagen, Denmark

6 June Veilinghal, Blokker, The Netherlands

10 June Princess Theatre, Hong Kong

12-13 June Centennial Hall, Adelaide, Australia

15-17 June Festival Hall, Melbourne, Australia

18-20 June Sydney Stadium, Sydney, Australia

22-23 June Town Hall, Wellington, New Zealand

24-25 June Town Hall, Auckland, New Zealand

26 June Town Hall, Dunedin, New Zealand

27 June Majestic Theatre, Christchurch, New Zealand

29-30 June Festival Hall, Brisbane, Australia

UK & Sweden, Summer 1964

12 July Hippodrome Theatre, Brighton

19 July ABC Theatre, Blackpool

23 July The Night of a Hundred Stars, London Palladium, London

26 July Opera House, Blackpool

28-29 July Johannesshovs, Stockholm

2 August Gaumont Cinema, Bournemouth

9 August Futurist Theatre, Scarborough

16 August Opera House, Blackpool

THE BEATLES' FIRST US TOUR, 1964

19 August Cow Palace, San Francisco

20 August Convention Hall, Las Vegas

21 August Coliseum, Seattle

22 August Empire Stadium, Vancouver

23 August Hollywood Bowl, Los Angeles

26 August Red Rocks Amphitheatre, Denver

27 August The Gardens, Cincinnati

28-29 August Forest Hills Stadium, New

30 August Convention Hall, Atlantic City

2 September Convention Hall, Philadelphia

3 September State Fair Coliseum, Indianapolis

4 September Auditorium, Milwaukee

5 September International Amphitheatre, Chicago

6 September Olympia Stadium, Detroit

7 September Maple Leaf Gardens, Toronto

8 September Forum, Montreal

11 September Gator Bowl, Jacksonville

12 September Boston Gardens, Boston

13 September Civic Centre, Baltimore

14 September Civic Arena, Pittsburgh

15 September Public Auditorium, Cleveland

16 September City Park Stadium, New Orleans

17 September Municipal Stadium, Kansas City

18 September Memorial Coliseum, Dallas

20 September Paramount Theatre, New York

TOUR OF THE UNITED KINGDOM, Fall 1964

9 October Gaumont, Bradford

10 October De Montfort Hall, Leicester

11 October Odeon, Birmingham

13 October ABC, Wigan

14 October ABC, Manchester

15 October Globe, Stockton-on-Tees

16 October ABC, Hull

19 October ABC, Edinburgh

20 October Caird Hall, Dundee

21 October Odeon, Glasgow

22 October Odeon, Leeds

23 October Gaumont State, Kilburn

24 October Granada, Walthamstow

25 October Hippodrome, Brighton

28 October ABC, Exeter

29 October ABC, Plymouth

30 October Gaumont, Bournemouth

31 October Gaumont, Ipswich

1 November Astoria, Finsbury Park

2 November King's Hall, Belfast

4 November Ritz, Luton

5 November Odeon, Nottingham

6 November Gaumont, Southampton

7 November Capitol, Cardiff

8 November Empire, Liverpool

9 November City Hall, Sheffield

10 November Colston Hall, Bristol

END OF TOUR

ANOTHER BEATLES CHRISTMAS SHOW, 1964

24 December Another Beatles Christmas Show, Odeon Cinema, London

25-26 December Another Beatles Christmas Show, Odeon Cinema, London

28-31 December Another Beatles Christmas Show, Odeon Cinema, London

1965

1-2 January Another Beatles Christmas Show, Odeon Cinema, London

4-9 January Another Beatles Christmas Show, Odeon Cinema, London

11-16 January Another Beatles Christmas Show, Odeon Cinema, London

END SHOW

11 April NME Poll Winners Concert, Empire Pool, Wembley

EUROPEAN TOUR, 1965

20 June Palais De Sports, Paris

22 June Palais d'Hiver, Lyon

24 June Velodromo, Milan

25 June Palazzo dello Sport, Genoa

27-28 June Teatro Adriano, Rome

30 June Palais des Fetes, Nice

2 July Plaza de Toros de Madrid, Madrid

3 July Plaza de Toros Monumental, Barcelona

END OF TOUR

1 August ABC Theater, Blackpool

AMERICAN TOUR, 1965

15 August Shea Stadium, New York

17 August Maple Leaf Gardens, Toronto

18 August Atlanta Stadium, Georgia

19 August Sam Houston Coliseum, Houston

20 August White Sox Park, Chicago

21 August Metropolitan Stadium, Minneapolis

22 August Memorial Coliseum, Portland

28 August Balboa Stadium, San Diego

29-30 August Hollywood Bowl, Los Angeles

31 August Cow Palace, San Francisco

TOUR OF THE UNITED KINGDOM, December 1965

3 December Odeon, Glasgow

4 December City Hall, Newcastle

5 December Empire, Liverpool

7 December Apollo, Ardwick, Manchester

8 December City Hall, Sheffield

9 December Odeon, Birmingham

10 December Odeon Hammersmith

11 December Astoria, Finsbury Park

12 December Capitol, Cardiff

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good on ya, reg...

i've never met a record company from anywhere that wasn't greedy.

i wasn't trying to be hostile, just as you weren't trying to be dumb.

i love zeppelin, reg, but i love the beatles, too. the whole record sales thing was a demonstration in how ridiculous the whole argument is. i know folks get their backs up when someone mentions more sales than zep, but beatles were the top when it comes to that and i was trying to steer the thread to more personal observations. i was counting on you, but your "discussion" points stayed in the hole, so to speak. but i understand how zep makes one feel and no hard feelings on my end. but if you want to knock the beatles, i'd stay away from the recording part of it. the live venue is where led zeppelin reigns supreme over all and had you and i steered that way, i'd be singing your praises.

i'd say "fuck budweiser" but evster's prolly listening...

i don't drink, myself, but i do love tea....

i have a good one, reg. thanks anyway, though.... :D

That's what makes music so great, the way it stirs up the passion in people.

Gotta love it.

If it seemed like I was knocking The Beatles I'm sorry if it came across like that, I love 'em.

It's just that right or wrong, they were pigeonholed in the media as a pop band for teenybopper girls.

I don't agree with that but compared to Zeppelin they were softer for want of a better word and weren't as varied in styles as Zeppelin.

Look at the hammering III got from the UK press because it wasn't like II.

The Beatles were great in the studio when it came to using different instruments and sounds but would it have been the same without George Martin? I doubt it.

Sure there were some great "harder" songs like Helter Skelter but for the most part they were, to cite Paul, "silly love songs", which I like having grown up with them.

I would have preferred they had explored the heavier side of music more often than they did.

Edit:

Except for the "world tour" and the US shows they played mostly in the UK and that allowed them to record more frequently during that time.

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Sorry. I didn't mean to imply you had said shunned. :)

Ah ok I thought you meant me. :D

I am curious what you mean by huge crowds. They essentially toured all the same venues as Zeppelin.

I meant the huge football stadium gigs that Zeppelin did.

Did Queen fill out 50,000 to 70,000 stadiums???

We have to remember as well that the last two tours Zeppelin did ('75 and '77) ended before they finished their remaining dates for those years due to Plant's leg and also poor Karac's death. In both '75 and '77 Zeppelin were due to play some really huge gigs. Pasadena Rose Bowl in Sept '75 and JFK stadium in Philadelphia in August '77 to name just two really big ones. Both of these gigs might have beaten their Pontiac Silverdome record had they taken place. The capacities were larger.

I realise 32 million isn't a "staggering" amount of sales, when compared to Zeppelin, but I'm responding primarily to those who've stated that they were unpopular or implied they were largely ignored in the US.

Yeah I agree with you. Queen aren't unpolular in America at all. They are very very well known and liked in the U.S.A.

It's the same with ABBA. ABBA didn't have the same commercial success in the U.S.A as they did in Europe yet they are extremely well known and liked in the U.S.A. ABBA were unquestionably THE biggest pop band in Europe in the 1970s. I don't really think they were unquestionably THE biggest pop band in America were they?

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PS. I still think that the UK Media in general gave little to no time or respect to Led Zeppelin, the US were much more appeasing, and i think it has to do with a lot of bias on their part, we should thank the US, espesially its people for the way they welcomed our boys in to therir hearts and homes, to you US of A and its People. :beer:

When Zeppelin had the reunion it was blanket coverage on the t.v news and in the papers. It appears to me that the Zeppelin reunion got more widespread coverage in the U.K than it did in America.

In contrast, when Cream, The Police and the Sex Pistols reunited I almost didn't hear a word about them. The Zeppelin reunion definitely got more coverage and more importantly more respectful coverage than those bands.

Even when Plant was on This Morning he said a big thanks to the British press for giving Zeppelin such nice respectful coverage.

In the U.K it was a mini Zeppelin mania in late '07. They were widely talked about in the mainstream media, and not just in the rock press.

Fiona Bruce even did a major interview with Jimmy Page.

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When Zeppelin had the reunion it was blanket coverage on the t.v news and in the papers. It appears to me that the Zeppelin reunion got more widespread coverage in the U.K than it did in America.

In contrast, when Cream, The Police and the Sex Pistols reunited I almost didn't hear a word about them. The Zeppelin reunion definitely got more coverage and more importantly more respectful coverage than those bands.

Even when Plant was on This Morning he said a big thanks to the British press for giving Zeppelin such nice respectful coverage.

In the U.K it was a mini Zeppelin mania in late '07. They were widely talked about in the mainstream media, and not just in the rock press.

Fiona Bruce even did a major interview with Jimmy Page.

Hi 'Mangani'

Thats "now and not zen" its took them nearly four decades to give tribute to the "Greatest Rock Band that ever walked the Planet" still things change with time, all the old codgers who didnt pay tribute when it was a riand propper time, like 1970 and hopefully all dead a buried now.

Still nice post mate.

Regards, Danny

PS. I've only stated what i believe to be the facts, and have come to my conclusion through me being their at the time and observing what happened first hand, some people see it differently because either they were not there, were not born, or are just plain argumental, dont believe the hype the UK press were disrespectful to Led Zeppelin in the days when Led Zeppelin were the biggest thing to be exported from the UK as far as Music is concerned, only thing that was ever bigger was the Beatles, and thats the truth.

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I think back in the seventies Led Zeppelin themselves were to blame for the lack of media attention in the UK. It was their decision. They made the choice of not appearing on TV, not releasing singles in the UK and not doing many interviews. They deliberately shunned the media. Which is fine if that's what they wanted. I wasn't alive in the 70s but it appears they got a fair amount of coverage in the music magazines of the time, but sadly, very limited coverage in mainstream newspapers and on radio and television.

America had album rock radio stations, which was perfect for Zep's album orientated rock. Perhaps it would have made more sense to release singles in the UK rather than America?

To be honest I think it's one of things one of the things that makes them a lot cooler than most bands. No need to rely on the media, it was purely the music that gave them popularity and they also created a great air of mystique that few other bands have manage to achieve.

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How's it going "pagemccartney95?" Welcome to the forum! THE BEATLES are my all-time favorite band in the whole wide world with LED ZEPPELIN coming in a very close second. THE ROLLING STONES are coming in a very close third. There is nothing wrong with having LED ZEPPELIN a very close second to THE BEATLES. THE BEATLES are the greatest band that ever lived and are a very hard act to top. ROCK ON!

That's merely your opinion

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I would agree with most people's opinions concerning comparable "band" attention, but the Beatles were from a different era than Zeppelin. I think a far more accurate comparison could be drawn between the media attention Led Zeppelin received, as opposed to both Paul McCartney & Wings, and especially Elton John during the same era. It may be hard to imagine today, but both of those acts received far more media attention than Zeppelin, especially when they were touring America. The 1976 "Wings Over America" Tour was absolutely huge, and Elton John was frickin' everywhere !

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When it comes to lyrics, Page/Plant can't hold a candle to The Beatles (except for Ringo). And overall musicianship? I'd rather take a simple rocker with ingenious melody and harmony that an overly self-indulgent rock experience. I love Led Zeppelin but they certainly had their faults. I honestly think Led Zeppelin didn't really bloom as a group of serious musicians until late in their career, and it was unfortunately cut short. I often think of the great things Led Zeppelin could have done if Bonzo hadn't died, and it's really a damn shame.

Many people criticize The Beatles as being a bunch of puppets in suits, cookie-cutter sellouts in the first half of their career. That's just not true. The key to their magic was the songwriting chemistry amongst them all which resulted in ground-breakingly catchy, simple and fresh instrumental and vocal harmonies. Ringo and George weren't showoffs, and that's because they didn't need to be. Do you really think it would be right if Ringo broke into a twenty-minute drum solo during Paperback Writer?

Yet Zeppelin were the Gods of the amplifier. The evangelists to the gospel of sex, drugs, and rock 'n' roll. They had great live chemistry, knowing exactly what cues indicated what, and when to cut off the long jam-sessions. But often times this personally came off to me as self-indulgence and a bit obnoxious. Robert Plant shouting orgasmically over Jimmy's shredding solos. Although I'm sure it wasn't their purpose, that often came off as they were just playing for themselves and not for the crowd.

I know it's bold and a little rude to come to a band's website and not praise them as the best thing since the printing press, but all bands have their faults, and I'm not afraid to point out what I believe them to be.

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Again, I think you're overlooking the fact that the whole music scene was radically different in 1963 compared to 1968, when the two bands first emerged. You're comparing apples to oranges.

I mostly agree with this, though (except for the fact that I never wanted to see bands I liked in mainstream newspapers, it would have demolished their "cool" factor immediately!).

I think back in the seventies Led Zeppelin themselves were to blame for the lack of media attention in the UK. It was their decision. They made the choice of not appearing on TV, not releasing singles in the UK and not doing many interviews. They deliberately shunned the media. Which is fine if that's what they wanted. I wasn't alive in the 70s but it appears they got a fair amount of coverage in the music magazines of the time, but sadly, very limited coverage in mainstream newspapers and on radio and television.

America had album rock radio stations, which was perfect for Zep's album orientated rock. Perhaps it would have made more sense to release singles in the UK rather than America?

To be honest I think it's one of things one of the things that makes them a lot cooler than most bands. No need to rely on the media, it was purely the music that gave them popularity and they also created a great air of mystique that few other bands have manage to achieve.

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When it comes to lyrics, Page/Plant can't hold a candle to The Beatles (except for Ringo). And overall musicianship? I'd rather take a simple rocker with ingenious melody and harmony that an overly self-indulgent rock experience.

Which is your right of course but if you say lyrically Page and Plant can't hold a candle to the Beatles I'll say that musically, the Beatles can't hold a candle to Led Zeppelin, although Paul was a damn good bassist I'll give him that.

Led Zeppelin mixed it up. Yes they could do expanded jam numbers but they could also do straightforward rock n' roll and if you've ever seen them pull up some chairs and just sit down and play acoustic folk songs then you wouldn't relegate them to being 'overly self indulgent'.

It amuses me when folks bang on about the Beatles sophisticated special talents as lyricist yet tend to dismiss Zeppelin's sophisticated special talents as musicians in the same breath.

I mean, what's more important in music? Words or actual music? Being a better wordsmith or a better musician?

I guess that's why Dylan leaves me cold. Great 'poet' but as a musician not so much.

Beethoven, Bach, Mozart and Tchaikovsky didn't need lyrics to get across the power and beauty of their music.

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Nothing new here.The Beatles came out of an era when wearing suits and ties,and girly-bopping your way through a song was the way you were told to do it.

Then,the evening attire was chucked in the bin and wearing whatever you liked was cool.

Jeans.....a collarless shirt and lord..lookout....sandals !!

Yeah,they were cool,no doubt !.But the change in clothing also changed the way the Band (insert your favourite band here) was sold to the public.

By '69 we were looking for something with an edge,and we'd heard it...Cream..The Animals,Jimi Hendrix,etc.....people were experimenting.....and for that I am glad.

And those that looked found.....what they wanted to find.

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Which is your right of course but if you say lyrically Page and Plant can't hold a candle to the Beatles I'll say that musically, the Beatles can't hold a candle to Led Zeppelin, although Paul was a damn good bassist I'll give him that.

Led Zeppelin mixed it up. Yes they could do expanded jam numbers but they could also do straightforward rock n' roll and if you've ever seen them pull up some chairs and just sit down and play acoustic folk songs then you wouldn't relegate them to being 'overly self indulgent'.

It amuses me when folks bang on about the Beatles sophisticated special talents as lyricist yet tend to dismiss Zeppelin's phisticated special talents as musicians in the same breath.

I mean, what's more important in music? Words or actual music? Being a better wordsmith or a better musician?

I guess that's why Dylan leasoves me cold. Great 'poet' but as a musician not so much.

Beethoven, Bach, Mozart and Tchaikovsky didn't need lyrics to get across the power and beauty of their music.

The musical ingenuity of The Beatles lies in their vocal talent. They had great melody and harmony that fit perfectly with their lyrics. The instrumentation may not be anything to gawk at but that wasn't their style in the first place. John, Paul, George, and Ringo's true talent shone through in their separate solo careers due to Paul's control issues.

And when lyrics really hit you and relate to you, the instrumentation doesn't matter. That's why I love Within You Without You and Yesterday (and lots of Bob Dylan songs). I can't relate to most of Led Zeppelin's music, lyrically. I'm not a sex God that gets his lemons squeezed every night.

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