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Bong-Man

Knebworth's "Whole Lotta Love"

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I remember discussing this issue once before, but let's go at it once more....

Was there a specific reason the band chose to rework "Whole Lotta Love" for the '79 shows ? Some folks speculated that this new version was prompted by legal action taken against the band...specifically due to plagiarizing Willie Dixon's "You Need Love".

Here are some things I was wondering about concerning this issue....

- Was the lawsuit pending or settled by the time of the Knebworth shows? Anyone have a timeline of when the lawsuit was actually filed and settled? What were the terms of the settlement?

- Was the new "You Need Love" middle section part of the legal compromise? I guess what I'm asking is....Did the band come up with this section as a specific response to the lawsuit?

- On the DVD at Knebworth, Robert gives Jimmy the "Eh...Eh..Eh" bit when it comes to the old "Boogie Mama" break. Had they already agreed that no covers would be played during WLL? Was this by choice ?....or were they afraid of some kind of further legal action ? (knowing they were filming)

- Why was this new version of "Whole Lotta Love" not used on the 1980 tour ? Again....was the tour before or after the settlement ?

- Why did they choose to again play the Knebworth version during the 1988 Atlantic Record Show ?

I'm not looking to argue about Zep plagiarism....just wondering if there was something besides the music that motivated the band to make these decisions. I totally enjoy the Knebworth version by the way, and also realize that one motivation for the new version may have been something as simple as cutting down the length of their traditional concert set.

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- Why did they choose to again play the Knebworth version during the 1988 Atlantic Record Show ?

Jason loves that riff and he started playing it in rehearsals.

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Jason loves that riff and he started playing it in rehearsals.

there you go...i like the riff too

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Jason loves that riff and he started playing it in rehearsals.

How's it going "sam_webmaster?" Jason even played that riff during the Atlantic 40th Anniversary show in 1988. You are right, Jason does love playing that riff on drums. ROCK ON!

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Jason loves that riff and he started playing it in rehearsals.

Interesting....because that point is exactly where the Atlantic Records Show performance took off for me, and the band starts to cook. Since he was at Knebworth, that must be a strong band memory for Jason. Thanks Sam.

there you go...i like the riff too Whole Lotta Love live 2004

Where's the Jimmy power chords ? It's not the same ! :angry:

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In the booklet thats in the led zeppelin dvd, John Paul Jones says that the riff came from there on stage he had no idea why it was like that

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Settled out of court in 1987

On the 1990 Box Set, WLL is still only credited to the 4 band members. My Zep II cd, an early West Germany issue, is the same. The first time I see Willie Dixon credited on anything related to WLL was the Jimmy & the Black Crowes "Live at the Greek" cd.

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Was there a specific reason the band chose to rework "Whole Lotta Love" for the '79 shows ? Some folks speculated that this new version was prompted by legal action taken against the band...specifically due to plagiarizing Willie Dixon's "You Need Love".

Was the new "You Need Love" middle section part of the legal compromise? I guess what I'm asking is....Did the band come up with this section as a specific response to the lawsuit?

I doubt it, especially since the copyright issue pertained specifically to lyrics, not the music.

Plant seemed to be singing pretty much the same lyrics as on the Zep II version.

I'm also pretty sure that virtually all of Zeppelins "plagerism" lawsuits were because of lyircs.

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I doubt it, especially since the copyright issue pertained specifically to lyrics, not the music.

Plant seemed to be singing pretty much the same lyrics as on the Zep II version.

I'm also pretty sure that virtually all of Zeppelins "plagerism" lawsuits were because of lyircs.

I agree....the timelines don't match either. I was thinking maybe this version appeared because the band knew they were going to film and record multi-track audio for the show. Instead of editing out the covers, they agreed beforehand not to play any. This would explain why Plant did the old "eh eh eh" bit and wagged his finger at Jimmy, when it came to the part where they usually took the song other places. What I don't understand is why they didn't use the same version on the '80 tour, when they were trying to shorten the setlist anyway. It would have worked for me.

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Musically, there are no similarities between You Need Love and WLL. The You Need Love riff is like CCR's Suzie Q. The only similarities lay in the words. As Robert sang lyrics even closer to Dixon's at Knebworth, the new riff likely has nothing to do with legalities. More likely they just came on the riff in a jam, and Robert brought out some more of the You Need Love lyrics in the moment.

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I remember discussing this issue once before, but let's go at it once more....

Was there a specific reason the band chose to rework "Whole Lotta Love" for the '79 shows ? Some folks speculated that this new version was prompted by legal action taken against the band...specifically due to plagiarizing Willie Dixon's "You Need Love".

Here are some things I was wondering about concerning this issue....

- Was the lawsuit pending or settled by the time of the Knebworth shows? Anyone have a timeline of when the lawsuit was actually filed and settled? What were the terms of the settlement?

- Was the new "You Need Love" middle section part of the legal compromise? I guess what I'm asking is....Did the band come up with this section as a specific response to the lawsuit?

- On the DVD at Knebworth, Robert gives Jimmy the "Eh...Eh..Eh" bit when it comes to the old "Boogie Mama" break. Had they already agreed that no covers would be played during WLL? Was this by choice ?....or were they afraid of some kind of further legal action ? (knowing they were filming)

- Why was this new version of "Whole Lotta Love" not used on the 1980 tour ? Again....was the tour before or after the settlement ?

- Why did they choose to again play the Knebworth version during the 1988 Atlantic Record Show ?

I'm not looking to argue about Zep plagiarism....just wondering if there was something besides the music that motivated the band to make these decisions. I totally enjoy the Knebworth version by the way, and also realize that one motivation for the new version may have been something as simple as cutting down the length of their traditional concert set.

i dont think iv heard 2 zep live recordings that were exacly the same, thay alwas seam to mess with songs live. i have red that when zep was still the new yardbirds that thay would go on stage and just jam alot of blues rifs and elvis songs, i think that the fact that thay started just "jamming" stuf on stage is why thar live songs are so much diffrent frum the recordings. (it sometims seams that thay made up the changes as thay went)

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If you listen to different WLL's over the years, you will see that the song evolves.

Being in a band myself, you start to notice that some of our songs that have been open to improvisation naturally evolve over time.

Whether this was a concious decision by the band or it just happened while rehearsing..i don't know.

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I can go along with the idea of that part of the song evolving from a jam, but if you watch the dvd, it's obvious there is no improv there. That part was practiced and planned well before it was played at Knebworth.

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I can go along with the idea of that part of the song evolving from a jam, but if you watch the dvd, it's obvious there is no improv there. That part was practiced and planned well before it was played at Knebworth.

No question. Sorry but no one is THAT intuitive! :lol:

They may have "stumbled across the riff", but it wasn't at Knebworth. They knew damn well what they were doing. They were not winging it. Now the tease about going into a jam, and instead going into "Way down inside" may have been a lark, but the riff was definitely rehearsed. :beer:

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I can go along with the idea of that part of the song evolving from a jam, but if you watch the dvd, it's obvious there is no improv there. That part was practiced and planned well before it was played at Knebworth.

Well, considering the fact that they played the same arrangement of WLL a couple weeks earlier at the Copenhagen warmup shows, I would venture to say that you are correct.

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In the booklet thats in the led zeppelin dvd, John Paul Jones says that the riff came from there on stage he had no idea why it was like that

Then Jonesy (whom I have the greatest respect for) forgot or was misquoted since they played the same riff during one of the Knebworth warm-up shows at the Falconer Theatre in Copenhagen. I had that bootleg for years before I heard the actual Knebworth shows.

Edited by dpat

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As far as how Zeppelin's songs changed overtime I would assume they did it intentionally for the most part and just tried different pieces of music in places of others, I don't think the first guitar line for SIBLY went from 5 to 50 notes from 1970-1973 without trying. The studio albums just came out the way they played the songs that day, if one album was recorded a week or two later than planned some songs would've likely sounded a little different like with shows that were two weeks apart.

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The reworked 1979 WLL is amazing.  Three new riffs, partially based on the original riff and rhythm.  It is like they took the original and turned it inside out, and upside down.  Maybe they turned it over, under, sideways down, backwards, forwards, squared around.

In any case it re-energized the song and brought new life to it.  I wish they had played it in 1980.  Yes the July 7, 1980 Berlin WLL is a cool experiment, but that 1979 version is killer.  

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Yes, Whole Lotta Love at both Knebworths is incredible, especially when they did do the "Boogie Mama." I think the one I heard from Copenhagen where they did the same arrangement is killer, as well...

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