Jimmy with the Rolling Stones

[FireOpal]

I'm listening to the '75 Stones outtakes/demos compilation Metamorphosis, and saw where the accompanying Rhapsody review claims that Jimmy Page is among the "stellar session players" who play on it. Anyone here know which tracks feature Jimmy? I wonder if it's the alt take of "Heart of Stone," something pre-Zep.

I've heard before that Jimmy played on at least one 1980's-era Stones song, reportedly "One Hit to the Body"

[SteveAJones]

I wonder if it's the alt take of "Heart of Stone"

I've heard Jimmy played on one 1980's-era Stones song, "One Hit to the Body"

Correct on both points.

[duckman]

It is no secret Jimmy was sollicited (or he was solliciting himself) as follow up for Mick Taylor. In 1974 there must have been some jam sessions. At the time I read an article about a jam which resulted in a song called "Scarlet" (named after Jimmy's daughter).

Although i checked numerous outtake and session compilations the track has not yet surfaced.

The early eighties sessions are much better documented.

[SteveAJones]

It is no secret Jimmy was sollicited (or he was solliciting himself) as follow up for Mick Taylor. In 1974 there must have been some jam sessions. At the time I read an article about a jam which resulted in a song called "Scarlet" (named after Jimmy's daughter). Although i checked numerous outtake and session compilations the track has not yet surfaced. The early eighties sessions are much better documented.

Jimmy Page, Keith Richards, Rich Grech and drummer Rich Rowland recorded one track, 'Scarlet', during an all-night session at Olympic Studios on October 15, 1974. Jimmy provided the solos at 8am. Later that same month Jimmy, Robert & Peter Grant drove to Richard Cole's home to celebrate signing the agreement for the upcoming Led Zeppelin tour to commence in January 1975.

Mick Taylor did not announce he was leaving The Rolling Stones until December 1974. After Taylor did the UK press published rumors that he may be replaced by Jimmy Page. However, Jimmy was already leading the biggest rock band in the world, and it was a stretch for them to suggest he would have ever walked away from his fully-realized artistic vision to join The Rolling Stones. Additionally, Ronnie Wood has recounted Mick Jagger informing him that Mick Taylor had left the band and inquiring if he would be interested in joining immediately after it happened. The only concern for them both (Jagger and Wood) was that they did not want to break up The Faces.

[lzzoso]

Jimmy Page, Keith Richards, Rich Grech and drummer Rich Rowland recorded one track, 'Scarlet', during an all-night session at Olympic Studios on October 15, 1974. Jimmy provided the solos at 8am. Later that same month Jimmy, Robert & Peter Grant drove to Richard Cole's home to celebrate signing the agreement for the upcoming Led Zeppelin tour to commence in January 1975.

Mick Taylor did not announce he was leaving The Rolling Stones until December 1974. After Taylor did the UK press published rumors that he may be replaced by Jimmy Page. However, Jimmy was already leading the biggest rock band in the world, and it was a stretch for them to suggest he would have ever walked away from his fully-realized artistic vision to join The Rolling Stones. Additionally, Ronnie Wood has recounted Mick Jagger informing him that Mick Taylor had left the band almost and inquiring if he would be interested in joining immediately after it happened. The only concern for them both (Jagger and Wood) was that they did not want to break up The Faces.

As I am sure that you are aware, I also read somewhere that Jimmy was also being considered to possibly replace Keith Richards in the Rolling Stones if Keith would have had to go to prison in Canada for his heroin bust in 1977. Where and why this rumor and speculation came from I have no idea.

Of course, although this never happened, I could not imagine Jimmy Page leaving Led Zeppelin (either permanently or temporarily at that time) to "join" the Rolling Stones. We all know that Jimmy was and had been friends with the Stones since the early to mid 1960's, however, I do not think that Jimmy would leave his real friends (and Family, i.e. Led Zeppelin) to join another group just because their guitar player got busted. Then again, I guess anyone is possible in the crazy world of 1970's Rock and Roll.

[SteveAJones]

As I am sure that you are aware, I also read somewhere that Jimmy was also being considered to possibly replace Keith Richards in the Rolling Stones if Keith would have had to go to prison in Canada for his heroin bust in 1977. Where and why this rumor and speculation came from I have no idea.

I have no idea either as it's preposterous to imagine The Rolling Stones touring without Keith Richards. Even Mick Jagger has conceded in the past on that point. It's worth noting a bit of rivalry had developed between the two band's fans. Some Stones fans seemed to relish the idea that regardless of Led Zeppelin's popularity and Jimmy's talent he would be at best the low man on the Stones ancient totem pole.

[duckman]

Jimmy Page, Keith Richards, Rich Grech and drummer Rich Rowland recorded one track, 'Scarlet', during an all-night session at Olympic Studios on October 15, 1974. Jimmy provided the solos at 8am. Later that same month Jimmy, Robert & Peter Grant drove to Richard Cole's home to celebrate signing the agreement for the upcoming Led Zeppelin tour to commence in January 1975.

Mick Taylor did not announce he was leaving The Rolling Stones until December 1974. After Taylor did the UK press published rumors that he may be replaced by Jimmy Page. However, Jimmy was already leading the biggest rock band in the world, and it was a stretch for them to suggest he would have ever walked away from his fully-realized artistic vision to join The Rolling Stones. Additionally, Ronnie Wood has recounted Mick Jagger informing him that Mick Taylor had left the band almost and inquiring if he would be interested in joining immediately after it happened. The only concern for them both (Jagger and Wood) was that they did not want to break up The Faces.

Thanks for giving us a much more complete account....

still, some writers keep dropping Jimmy's name as one of the contenders (Jeff Beck, Leslie Harvey, Rory Gallagher and other guitar gods, also being frequently cited.

[beetleron]

I've heard before that Jimmy played on at least one 1980's-era Stones song, reportedly "One Hit to the Body"

nice extended version remix of this came out on EP at the time too..........i used to listen to it quite a lot........seek it out

[reids]

Hopefully, the song "Scarlet" will be released at some point officially along with "Domino" (perhaps in a JP career retrospective box set???)

R

[danelectro]

A bit off topic here but if anyone doesn't have Metamorphosis it's a cool album of oddities worth having. Side 2, not sure of the CD track order, contains cool Beggars-Sticky fingers era outtakes.

[FireOpal]

Correct on both points.

YES! I am the wizard of Page (not really). Thank you, Steve.

Hopefully someday before we die we can hear "Scarlet".

[SteveAJones]

Update: Scarlet may have been recorded at Island Studios instead of Olympic (if we rely solely upon Jimmy's memory) and it's possible the song was reworked further in Switzerland.

"I did what could possibly be the next Stones B side. It was Rick Grech, Keith and me doing a number called "Scarlet." I can't remember the drummer. It sounded very similar in style and mood to those Blonde on Blonde tracks. It was great, really good. We stayed up all night and went down to Island Studios where Keith put some reggae guitars over one section. I just put some solos on it, but it was eight in the morning of the next day before I did that. He took the tapes to Switzerland and someone found out about them. Keith told people that it was a track from my album" -- Jimmy Page (1975)

[Aquamarine]

Jimmy Page, Keith Richards, Rich Grech and drummer Rich Rowland recorded one track, 'Scarlet', during an all-night session at Olympic Studios on October 15, 1974. Jimmy provided the solos at 8am. Later that same month Jimmy, Robert & Peter Grant drove to Richard Cole's home to celebrate signing the agreement for the upcoming Led Zeppelin tour to commence in January 1975.

Mick Taylor did not announce he was leaving The Rolling Stones until December 1974. After Taylor did the UK press published rumors that he may be replaced by Jimmy Page. However, Jimmy was already leading the biggest rock band in the world, and it was a stretch for them to suggest he would have ever walked away from his fully-realized artistic vision to join The Rolling Stones. Additionally, Ronnie Wood has recounted Mick Jagger informing him that Mick Taylor had left the band and inquiring if he would be interested in joining immediately after it happened. The only concern for them both (Jagger and Wood) was that they did not want to break up The Faces.

Mind you, Wood's memory is a bit shaky, as he also "remembered" the formation of Zepplein with himself in the starring role!

[Gospel Zone]

Mind you, Wood's memory is a bit shaky, as he also "remembered" the formation of Zepplein with himself in the starring role!

Maybe it's the alcohol talking. Woody has also claimed that he was offered Brian Jones' spot before it was offered to Mick Taylor. I see a pattern.

[lzzoso]

Update: Scarlet may have been recorded at Island Studios instead of Olympic (if we rely solely upon Jimmy's memory) and it's possible the song was reworked further in Switzerland.

"I did what could possibly be the next Stones B side. It was Rick Grech, Keith and me doing a number called "Scarlet." I can't remember the drummer. It sounded very similar in style and mood to those Blonde on Blonde tracks. It was great, really good. We stayed up all night and went down to Island Studios where Keith put some reggae guitars over one section. I just put some solos on it, but it was eight in the morning of the next day before I did that. He took the tapes to Switzerland and someone found out about them. Keith told people that it was a track from my album" -- Jimmy Page (1975)

This quote comes from Mick Wall's book "When Giants Walked the Earth":

"Jimmy had, in fact, being hanging out with Keith and Mick off and on throughout 1974, bumping into each other at Tramp or the Speakeasy in London, before all going back to Ronnie Wood's rambling mansion, the Wick, in Twickenham, where Keith practically moved in that year. One night in November Jimmy found himself embarked on an all-night jam with Keith and Ronnie on a song called 'Scarlet', named after Jimmy's two-year old daughter. 'It started out as a sort of gentle folk ballad,' he latter recalled. 'But then Keith suddenly decided, "Right, now it's time to add the reggae guitars."' Jimmy and Keith, whose mutual interests now extended far beyond music, were especially close, the Stones's guitarist teasing the Zeppelin leader about Plant and Bonham, who he referred to as 'a couple of clueless Ernies from the Midlands'. So close were they at that point it was even rumoured that Jimmy would replace the recently departed guitarist Mick Taylor on the band's 1975 American tour - before Ronnie stepped in.

Of course I have to say, How true and accurate this statement is exactly, I have no idea. I do know that I read everything I can about Led Zeppelin and Jimmy Page and I realize some things I do read are True and then some things I read are Not true. Either way, I know that I have at least read both sides and can form my OWN opinions, likes and dislikes and hopefully differentiate the Fact from the Fiction.

Regarding this song, "Scarlet", it seems documented that this jam/recording took place but it seems that it may be one the Songs that Jimmy and/or Keith collaborated on that may never see the Light of day or US Led Zeppelin (and Rolling Stones) fans may never hear.

[SteveAJones]

Of course I have to say, How true and accurate this statement is exactly, I have no idea.

The Stones and their solo sessions have been documented far more properly than those of Led Zeppelin and those findings always point to October as opposed to November. Furthermore, it's believed the reworking of the song to incorporate reggae and what not was done later (not the same night). Mick Jagger may have worked on it further still in Switzerland. The other thing is Mick Taylor did not announce he was leaving the Stones until December 1974, though perhaps the writing was on the wall so to speak for some time beforehand. Even so, I say no way in hell Jimmy jumps ship to join the Stones in late '74 when the ink was still wet for a 1975 North American tour with Led Zeppelin. He was possibly hanging around Ronnie's place to get closer to his wife Krissy, not Keith.

[Anjin-san]

Hi all,

Didn't Jimmy also play on one Mick's solo records?

KB (thanks Steve for the heads up!)

[SteveAJones]

Didn't Jimmy also play on one Mick's solo records?

No. You are thinking of guitarist Jimmy Rip.

[SteveAJones]

"Bill Wyman mentioned it to me once. He said that it was in the cards at some point way back but I don't know when it was. It wasn't at the time Ronnie Wood joined...I was amazed...I'd love to have played with the Stones" -- Jimmy Page interview with Max Kay, Musician Magazine, May 1985

[lzzoso]

"Bill Wyman mentioned it to me once. He said that it was in the cards at some point way back but I don't know when it was. It wasn't at the time Ronnie Wood joined...I was amazed...I'd love to have played with the Stones" -- Jimmy Page interview with Max Kay, Musician Magazine, May 1985

Jimmy did play with the Rolling Stones on the song, "One Hit (to the Body)". Which was released in 1986, however, Jimmy must have made his contribution to this song sometime in 1985. Probably sometime near or around the quote he gave above. Maybe Jimmy was giving a small hint of what he possibly already knew... that he already played with the Rolling Stones on this track from Dirty Work.

[SteveAJones]

Jimmy did play with the Rolling Stones on the song, "One Hit (to the Body)". Which was released in 1986, however, Jimmy must have made his contribution to this song sometime in 1985. Probably sometime near or around the quote he gave above. Maybe Jimmy was giving a small hint of what he possibly already knew... that he already played with the Rolling Stones on this track from Dirty Work.

The interview with Max Kay was conducted in Spring '85. Jimmy's uncredited contribution on 'One Hit To The Body' was possibly recorded at Pathe Marconi Studios in Paris sometime between late May or June 1985. If so that session hadn't happened yet. However, at the time of the interview he probably had already started working with Wyman on the Willie and the Poor Boys album. (Wyman also recorded at Jimmy's Sol Studio in Feb '81 and may have mentioned it then). Anyway, if the Stones were considering Page "way back" then Wyman was probably alluding to the sixties. Page had recorded with them then but had yet to join The Yardbirds, let alone form Led Zeppelin. He arguably would not have "loved to play with The Stones" after the formation of Led Zeppelin.

[SteveAJones]

Jimmy's contribution on 'One Hit To The Body' was possibly recorded at Pathe Marconi Studios in Paris sometime between late May or June 1985.

"Well, the last time I was in New York at the end of the last Firm tour, I went and had a jam with Ronnie (Wood) and Keith (Richards) and they invited me to do some overdubs. I mean, we were just jamming all night the first night we were there, and it was fantastic. I went along and played on this one track and, lo and behold, it's on the Stones thing. I mean, I didn't even know it was coming out until it was released. But you know what Mick's like" (laughs) -- Jimmy Page

Note: Further substantiation comes via a Rolling Stones chronicler who reports these sessions occured July 16-17 1985 at RPM Studios in NYC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9WJ--2Yn6Q

[FireOpal]

If anyone was wondering, Jimmy isn't mentioned in Keef's new autobiography, nor Led Zep Somehow, Kate Moss gets 2 pages though, go figure.

[FireOpal]

Just came across this quite comprehensive list of Stones collaborators. Our hero Jimmy Page was considered as a replacement to Brian Jones, and Jimmy later collaborated with Brian on a soundtrack album (can that last bit really be true?!):

In 1964 he [Mr. Page] also participated at Andrew Oldham Orchestra sessions as well and plays on their version of Heart of Stone (which appears on the Metamorphosis album). At this point, when Brian started becoming more incapacitated and troublesome to the band, the Stones toyed with the idea of replacing Brian with Page, as Bill Wyman later revealed..

"In '65 we almost asked (Brian) to leave before Zeppelin was formed, when we were going to ask Jimmy Page. We thought of asking him to leave 5 or 6 times. " - Bill Wyman

Then, in late 1966, Brian and Jimmy Page collaborated together, working on the soundtrack for the German film A Degree of Murder, in which Anita Pallenberg starred. Later, when Mick Taylor left the Stones in 1974, Page's name, along with many other legendary guitarists, was bandied about as a possible replacement - even though he still had a little band going called Led Zeppelin! In any event, 10 years later he did work with the Stones briefly. He participated in Bill Wyman's project Willie and the Poor Boys (after participating a year and a half earlier in the charity all-star tour for the ARMS multiple sclerosis cause with Bill and Charlie among others) and some months later, in the summer of 1985, contributed guitar to an overdub session for the Dirty Work album in New York City. He plays guitar on One Hit (to the Body). In 1992, Page and Keith jammed together again at the annual Rock and Roll Hall of Fame ceremonies, where Keith inducted Leo Fender.

Web site here: http://www.timeisonourside.com/whydontLQ.html

[swandown]

In 1964 Jimmy (and John Paul Jones) played on several demos of Jagger/Richards songs. Keep in mind, however, that these songs were NEVER intended to be released as "Rolling Stones" songs. For the most part, they were songs that the real Stones didn't consider to be worthy of the band's high standards, so they were given to other artists to record.

Stones producer/manager Andrew Oldham hired a bunch of session men to record the demos, and then Mick Jagger came along and overdubbed "guide vocals". The demos would then be shopped around to various artists, who would then record their own versions of the songs.

Many years later, Decca released several of these demos on the Metamorphosis album to fulfill some contractual obligations. The Stones have pretty much disowned the album.