1977

[Sagittarius Rising]

UNDERRATED when you read all these guitar poll's of the last couple of years he should alway's place in the TOP-5 but you are right it is because he is not as popular. I've seen Steve almost as many times as i've seen Jimmy!

I agree 100% regarding Steve Howe, an amazing underrated talent. Though it must be said he is one freaky-scary looking motherfucker. Have you seen him lately? Holy shit!!! The crypt keeper has better skin...and better hair. See, that's what happens when you practice too much, you forget basic hygiene.

[Nutrocker]

I've warmed up to this tour more. I still don't like the random "Lounge Jam" section in No Quarter.

I only guessing, but I expect JPZ56's 'Lounge Jam' comment might be a reference to the incongruous bar-room section which occasionally featured Nutrocker instead. If so, I have to agree - this wrong-headed insertion totally destroys the mood of the 77 versions, and is akin to Shelley including a mother-in-law joke in the middle of Ozymandias.

Ya know, I've actually been contemplating lashing together a 'compilation' of all the '77 "No Quarter" Lounge/Boogie/Nutrocker jams. IMO that three or four minutes of jamming was arguably the most 'spontaneous' jamming on the tour. In retrospect, for a band renowned for their improvisational skills onstage, the '77 tour was fairly set in stone playing-wise, compared to other tours. That's been my impression, at least, having heard/analyzed the available recordings ad nauseum...

It was actually the jamming section in "No Quarter" that whetted my appetite for wanting to hear all of the available shows: "How did they approach the 'Boogie section' at this show?" Everytime I'd get a new '77 show I'd have to check out NQ first, before going back and digesting the whole performance. Generally speaking, they never approached that jamming section of the song the same way two shows in a row, at least once they got comfortable with it (I seem to recall the NQ jam is done pretty much the same way in Oklahoma City and all four Chicago shows). Off the top of my head, there's nine or ten different variations on the jam, including my namesake (which itself was performed at least four times). I believe the rest of the band wanted JPJ just to stick to the Nutrocker jam but he declined, wanting to shake things up from night to night.

I think the idea of a jam in the middle of NQ is a 'love it or hate it' kind of proposition. Personally I like it, because it comes totally out of left field; I don't think it 'spoils the vibe' at all; it seemed to wake the audience up a bit following JPJ's tickling of the ivories. Or, in the words of the infamous "'Heartbreaker'!!!" Guy on June 21st after the jam was over: "Fuck yeah!!!!"

[bamf4k]

Or, in the words of the infamous "'Heartbreaker'!!!" Guy on June 21st after the jam was over: "Fuck yeah!!!!"

I always find him amusing because he always was yelling for Heartbreaker through the whole show, and he got his wish. On the other side of things, I feel bad for the people in the crowd on 7/23/77 that were practically begging for HMMT, but got the millionth performance of Black Dog instead.

[JimmyPageZoSo56]

I only guessing, but I expect JPZ56's 'Lounge Jam' comment might be a reference to the incongruous bar-room section which occasionally featured Nutrocker instead. If so, I have to agree - this wrong-headed insertion totally destroys the mood of the 77 versions, and is akin to Shelley including a mother-in-law joke in the middle of Ozymandias.

Ya know, I've actually been contemplating lashing together a 'compilation' of all the '77 "No Quarter" Lounge/Boogie/Nutrocker jams. IMO that three or four minutes of jamming was arguably the most 'spontaneous' jamming on the tour. In retrospect, for a band renowned for their improvisational skills onstage, the '77 tour was fairly set in stone playing-wise, compared to other tours. That's been my impression, at least, having heard/analyzed the available recordings ad nauseum...

It was actually the jamming section in "No Quarter" that whetted my appetite for wanting to hear all of the available shows: "How did they approach the 'Boogie section' at this show?" Everytime I'd get a new '77 show I'd have to check out NQ first, before going back and digesting the whole performance. Generally speaking, they never approached that jamming section of the song the same way two shows in a row, at least once they got comfortable with it (I seem to recall the NQ jam is done pretty much the same way in Oklahoma City and all four Chicago shows). Off the top of my head, there's nine or ten different variations on the jam, including my namesake (which itself was performed at least four times). I believe the rest of the band wanted JPJ just to stick to the Nutrocker jam but he declined, wanting to shake things up from night to night.

I think the idea of a jam in the middle of NQ is a 'love it or hate it' kind of proposition. Personally I like it, because it comes totally out of left field; I don't think it 'spoils the vibe' at all; it seemed to wake the audience up a bit following JPJ's tickling of the ivories. Or, in the words of the infamous "'Heartbreaker'!!!" Guy on June 21st after the jam was over: "Fuck yeah!!!!"

Yes Major Major you're correct. Well Major Major and Nutrocker, I really enjoy the Nutrocker part; it was very unexpected when I heard it for the first time when I was listening to New York 6/7/77. I just don't like how No Quarter goes from all ominous, bone chilling, and spooky to an upbeat jam back into the ominous, bone chilling, spooky "Set the Vibe" section into the "On the Journey" section. It's out of place IMO.

http://www.ledzeppel...ngid=235&sort=0 - Lounge Jam.

[JimmyPageZoSo56]

On another 1977 tour note, I read in a book, I think it was When Giants Walked the Earth by Mick Wall, that Bonzo sang The Battle of Evermore when Jonesy didn't want to sing it. Does anyone know know what shows that would be? *cough Nutrocker or Tom Kid*

[tom kid]

On another 1977 tour note, I read in a book, I think it was When Giants Walked the Earth by Mick Wall, that Bonzo sang The Battle of Evermore when Jonesy didn't want to sing it. Does anyone know know what shows that would be? *cough Nutrocker or Tom Kid*

I think he does a bit of singing on the 30/5 show.

[Nutrocker]

On another 1977 tour note, I read in a book, I think it was When Giants Walked the Earth by Mick Wall, that Bonzo sang The Battle of Evermore when Jonesy didn't want to sing it. Does anyone know know what shows that would be? *cough Nutrocker or Tom Kid*

I think he does a bit of singing on the 30/5 show.

Though I can't remember the exact shows off the top of my head, I do know you can hear Bonzo singing along quite clearly on the May 28 soundboard tape as well. He sang along at a few shows actually...but he never 'took over' the vocal from JPJ, don't know where that book got that idea from...(mind ya, I thought When Giants Walked The Earth was just a glorified rewrite of Hammer Of The Gods, but that's just me)

That said, I must admit I'm not a big fan of "Battle Of Evermore" on the '77 tour. IMO the live versions totally lack the 'spark' of the studio take and...well...John Paul gives it a good try, but Jonesy's no Sandy Denny (but who was?)

[bamf4k]

Hey, what's the general status of 5/22/77? Is it a good show or not? I hear abunch of people say it's great, but other people say it sucks. The only off part I know of is the false start of IMToD. Would anybody care to weigh in?

[Rock Historian]

Besides the 73 European Tour and a handful of very early shows, 77 is my favorite to visit. Some people criticize them, but I really thought there was something special about those 77 performances (in a good way). Although some of the tunes were a bit lengthy, there was something about the atmosphere of those concerts that even comes through the "bootlegs". That's pretty amazing. I love the No Quarter segments on any 77 show I hear. That alone is worth a trip.

[Geezer]

I also think that 77 is one of their best tours.

[Nutrocker]

Hey, what's the general status of 5/22/77? Is it a good show or not? I hear abunch of people say it's great, but other people say it sucks. The only off part I know of is the false start of IMToD. Would anybody care to weigh in?

Fort Worth is one of my favourite '77 shows...it is very "Tight But Loose", as it were. It's not a 'bad' show by any means, little bit sloppy here and there, but I get the idea that the band was kind of distracted by the rowdy crowd (ala Louisville, which IMO is a bad show, full of some jaw dropping mistakes). Not only do they fuck up IMTOD and start over -Bonham came in early- but, as in Houston the night before, he overplays during the "Feels pretty good up here" section so much it completely throws Page off.

That said, Bonham's drum solo in Fort Worth kicks ass. Easily my favourite of all his solos; he takes a completely different approach on the night and by the end of it (28 minutes long!) he's utilizing the whole kit and the tympani, pretty neat.

Also of note in Fort Worth is yet another performance of the "Nutrocker" during "No Quarter", and Mick Ralphs from Bad Company sits in during an encore of Jerry Lee Lewis's "It'll Be Me". Fort Worth was also the first '77 show they played the short "Whole Lotta Love" intro to "Rock And Roll".

[And You Know How It Is?]

Fort Worth is one of my favourite '77 shows...it is very "Tight But Loose", as it were. It's not a 'bad' show by any means, little bit sloppy here and there, but I get the idea that the band was kind of distracted by the rowdy crowd (ala Louisville, which IMO is a bad show, full of some jaw dropping mistakes).

Hey Nutrocker:

What key shows should I pick up from '77, basis this list I already have:

Destroyer

Houston

Landover 5/30

San Diego

Complete run of LA shows

Seattle

Am thinking the Ft Worth show, a NY show or two...what about Atlanta (heard it's a good show, suspect quality) or possibly last night in Chicago (sound quality an issue there as well?).

Thanks

[Nutrocker]

Am thinking the Ft Worth show, a NY show or two...what about Atlanta (heard it's a good show, suspect quality) or possibly last night in Chicago (sound quality an issue there as well?).

Thanks

Atlanta and the last night in Chicago are really good shows, just very distorted recordings. I'd also suggest April 28 in Cleveland (the night after the "Destroyer" show- much better performance), as well as June 10th and 11th in New York.

[bamf4k]

June 13th is another one of the great NY shows, also has the first Black Dog in two years.

[Nutrocker]

In case anybody cares, a new previously uncirculated recording for the July 23rd Oakland show has just popped out of the woodwork (it's over at dime). IMO of the three known recordings for this show it's probably the best sounding one, almost complete too (barring little cuts in NQ and ALS). Giving it a listen, the Oakland shows seem more to be known for the behind the scenes craziness that went on, while the performances themselves aren't too bad. No, it ain't L.A. or New York performance quality, but much better than Seattle and Tempe, that's for sure (outside of a trainwreck during Ten Years Gone, that is LOL)

Worth a listen, if yer a '77 freak (like I am!)

[JimmyPageZoSo56]

In case anybody cares, a new previously uncirculated recording for the July 23rd Oakland show has just popped out of the woodwork (it's over at dime). IMO of the three known recordings for this show it's probably the best sounding one, almost complete too (barring little cuts in NQ and ALS). Giving it a listen, the Oakland shows seem more to be known for the behind the scenes craziness that went on, while the performances themselves aren't too bad. No, it ain't L.A. or New York performance quality, but much better than Seattle and Tempe, that's for sure (outside of a trainwreck during Ten Years Gone, that is LOL)

Worth a listen, if yer a '77 freak (like I am!)

Pretty sure most of the time, Ten Years Gone was a trainwreck all the time. Page never nailed the solos. I cringe sometimes when I hear them.

[Nutrocker]

Pretty sure most of the time, Ten Years Gone was a trainwreck all the time. Page never nailed the solos. I cringe sometimes when I hear them.

No...on 23-7 Page really blows it LOL...it's like he misses his cue to start the main solo and the band almost crashes to a halt. It's more than just an iffy solo on the first Oakland date, sorta has to be heard to be believed...

Oh, and Major...regarding this new third source, it's better than either of the other two IMO. The "Quiet Before The Storm" source is a bit distant, and the second source is a bit distorted in the bass. This new one sounds pretty clear, i'd reckon it was taped pretty close to the stage.

[bamf4k]

I thought the TYG from 6/25/77 was pretty good.

[JimmyPageZoSo56]

Strongly disagree. There are some great versions of TYG.

The only thing that bugs me is he rarely if ever played the last couple of bars of the solo like the studio version, which is one of my fav parts of the song, and a classic JP solo-ending.

How so? What would you say good versions of Ten Years Gone be? I like the Badgeholders version but even then Page always doesn't nail it. For instance the parts where he does all those sliding parts between the 7th and 10th, 7th and 5th, and 5th and 2nd frets is pretty much always terrible. New York 6/7/77 and 6/11/77 he does those parts ok.

[Nutrocker]

Well, as I said in the "Ten Years Gone" discussion, I've actually always been partial to the "Destroyer" and Seattle versions. In those cases TYG is a highlight of pretty mediocre performances IMO.

I was giving the April 28 show a listen over the weekend (on the 35th anniversary of the show)...goddamn, that is a fucking good performance all around. The difference between the first night in Cleveland -"The Destroyer" show- and the 28th are like night and day. I'd put April 28th up there with the L.A. shows (and they do a good job of TYG as well!)

[bamf4k]

Well, as I said in the "Ten Years Gone" discussion, I've actually always been partial to the "Destroyer" and Seattle versions. In those cases TYG is a highlight of pretty mediocre performances IMO.

I was giving the April 28 show a listen over the weekend (on the 35th anniversary of the show)...goddamn, that is a fucking good performance all around. The difference between the first night in Cleveland -"The Destroyer" show- and the 28th are like night and day. I'd put April 28th up there with the L.A. shows (and they do a good job of TYG as well!)

I'd also put Pontiac up there with the LA shows too. Fantastic performance.

[Nutrocker]

I'd also put Pontiac up there with the LA shows too. Fantastic performance.

Funny, I just finished listening to the Pontiac show (35th anniversary today)...good performance, a bit looser than the damn near perfect show in Cleveland two days earlier...and, considering the circumstances, the Pontiac gig is better than it could have been...a crazed, 76000+ crowd, Plant has to do a lot of crowd control, lots of firecrackers, etc...good playing, but they kept the normally extended pieces -BYAS, WS/BMS, Page's 'Noise' solo- short and to the point (though Jonesy's extended piano solo in "No Quarter" gets a bit tedious on the night, not one of the better '77 NQ's IMO) and Bonham skips the hand drumming part of his drum solo. The overall vibe I got was yet another 1977 gig where Zeppelin sorta had a "Let's get it over with" attitude, but I suppose you can't really blame them. The crowd sounds absolutely fuckin' insane on the recording, and the Silverdome venue itself did not seem to offer the best sound quality...way too much echo. In spite of all that, the band rose to the challenge, if not the occasion, whereas they could have completely blown it just as easily.

Where's the fucking VIDEO????? LOL...

[JimmyPageZoSo56]

^how can you even tell it's a good show? It's barely listenable IMO. To sum up my point, I've just never really been a fan of Ten Years Gone live. Sometimes it's good but the thing that ruins it for me I guess it Page's sloppy solos. The overall structure of the song is good I think but the solos are mediocre.

[Nutrocker]

^how can you even tell it's a good show? It's barely listenable IMO. To sum up my point, I've just never really been a fan of Ten Years Gone live. Sometimes it's good but the thing that ruins it for me I guess it Page's sloppy solos. The overall structure of the song is good I think but the solos are mediocre.

How can I tell Pontiac is a good show? 'Cos I grabbed the 1st gen source that circulated a couple years back that is infinitely superior to the old "Hot Rods In Pontiac" boot. It's still not the greatest but it is indeed listenable. What, you think the King Of '77 would go round rating a '77 performance based on a recording that is 'barely listenable'? LOL...

Back to the "Ten Years Gone" debate...of the thirty six circulating 1977 shows, when it comes to TYG I'm gonna go out on a limb and say maybe half a dozen performances of the song are essentially flawless. That leaves roughly thirty iffy renditions of the tune. Or, if you like statistics, that means 17% of the versions of the song are spot on, or one in every six. So, Zoso56 has a point- a good performance of TYG more or less came down to how unsloppy Page was on that particular night, though that doesn't explain my contention that the "Destroyer" and Seattle versions of the song are among the best whilst the rest of the concert was pretty much mediocre...

ROTFLMAO...I can't believe I'm actually handicapping a fucking live version of a song like it was a ballgame or something (giving a whole new meaning to "Tuesday morning quarterbacking")...ladies and gentlemen, I do believe we are raising the overanalysis of thirty five year old concert performances to a higher art form here...I'm describing this to my wife and she is presently sitting in her easy chair with a her book open in her lap rolling her eyes and laughing at me...Jesus Christ!

[JimmyPageZoSo56]

How can I tell Pontiac is a good show? 'Cos I grabbed the 1st gen source that circulated a couple years back that is infinitely superior to the old "Hot Rods In Pontiac" boot. It's still not the greatest but it is indeed listenable. What, you think the King Of '77 would go round rating a '77 performance based on a recording that is 'barely listenable'? LOL...

Back to the "Ten Years Gone" debate...of the thirty six circulating 1977 shows, when it comes to TYG I'm gonna go out on a limb and say maybe half a dozen performances of the song are essentially flawless. That leaves roughly thirty iffy renditions of the tune. Or, if you like statistics, that means 17% of the versions of the song are spot on, or one in every six. So, Zoso56 has a point- a good performance of TYG more or less came down to how unsloppy Page was on that particular night, though that doesn't explain my contention that the "Destroyer" and Seattle versions of the song are among the best whilst the rest of the concert was pretty much mediocre...

ROTFLMAO...I can't believe I'm actually handicapping a fucking live version of a song like it was a ballgame or something (giving a whole new meaning to "Tuesday morning quarterbacking")...ladies and gentlemen, I do believe we are raising the overanalysis of thirty five year old concert performances to a higher art form here...I'm describing this to my wife and she is presently sitting in her easy chair with a her book open in her lap rolling her eyes and laughing at me...Jesus Christ!

Well sir, excuse me and that is a bold statement lol! I guess I have real echo-ey version of Pontiac.