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In Through The Out Door


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Beetleron didn't say it made him 'wanna puke'. He was just being witty.

'A classy, true Zeppelin fan' isn't allowed to have a sense of humour, or be critical of their poorer work?

i actually still have mine in sed paper bag...... :bubble:

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Not all ballads are light or simple. Is 'Ballad Of A Thin Man' light and simple? How about 'Ballad of Dwight Fry'? Can't see Coldplay covering either of those anytime soon.

Serve yourself.

You wanted to throw out a half definition of what a "ballad" is, I gave a complete definition. The word "ballad" in the title of a song does not make a song a "ballad" genuis, I can't help it if Dylan & Cooper got the definition wrong as well as you. "Thin Man" is a shuffle, "Dwight Fry" is a slow tempo rock song, and I don't see why Coldplay was brought into the equation. You're a waiter with an empty tray, you bring nothing to the table. Now listen to the songs you named, re-read the definition of a "ballad", & hopefully you just might realize your above statement is the most idiotic statement that's been posted in this thread.

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1) A "ballad" consists of a poem set to music & since we are on a music page speaking of music & not Beowolf or 16th century German writers let's keep it in the context of what we were speaking of. The most common definitions of a ballad are 1) a light simple song, especially of one of sentimental or romantic character, having one or two stanzas sung to the same melody 2) a simple narrative poem of folk orgin, composed of short stanzas & adopted for singing 3) a sentimental or romantic song. So, let's leave the debate on the non musical ballads/writings of the Brothers Grimm for another thread where it suits the context.

2) It doesn't make it a "dirge"? Well what makes a "dirge" then 1) a funeral hymn or lament 2) a slow, mournful musical composition 3) a mournful or elegiac poem or other literary work. Well it would seem at least one of those definitions applies, namely number 2. You can't hear anyone threatening to splatter their brains all over the wall because it's not part of the lyric nor did I say it was. Here's an example lyric from "Tea For One": "Once I stood tall, in the eyes of other men, but by my own choice I left you woman, and now I can't look back again". Yup, you would never find that sentiment in a suicide note. Nothing resembling that in, oh say, Kurt Cobain's suicide note. Yup a real stretch. On your bike.

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And I'd like to add that nowhere in Kurt Cobain's suicide note did he mention that he was going to blow his head off or kill himself in any manner, yet he did do just that. However he did mention how he felt he didn't measure up to rock stars like Freddie Mercury, how he felt he didn't measure up to his own fanbase, & ultimately he did leave his wife & he could never look back. I rest my case.

Now, back to In Through The Outdoor...

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This pretty much sums up what has been discussed so far. It also elaborates on the addictions of Bohnam and Page, resulting in more effort by Jones and Plant. Also I'm sure there was pressure on Jones to give more input since he lacked that effort on Presence. Also, I'd have to say that performance wise, Plant's overall vocals are stronger on ITTOD than Presence, (since the topic of that album keeps being thrown into the mix.)

Read this link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Through_the_Out_Door

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And I'd like to add that nowhere in Kurt Cobain's suicide note did he mention that he was going to blow his head off or kill himself in any manner, yet he did do just that. However he did mention how he felt he didn't measure up to rock stars like Freddie Mercury, how he felt he didn't measure up to his own fanbase, & ultimately he did leave his wife & he could never look back. I rest my case.

Now, back to In Through The Outdoor...

Hey now wait just a minute. Everyone knows Cobain did not off himself, Courtney Love had him killed. Jeesh, I thought everyone knew that :buttsmack:

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This pretty much sums up what has been discussed so far. It also elaborates on the addictions of Bohnam and Page, resulting in more effort by Jones and Plant. Also I'm sure there was pressure on Jones to give more input since he lacked that effort on Presence. Also, I'd have to say that performance wise, Plant's overall vocals are stronger on ITTOD than Presence, (since the topic of that album keeps being thrown into the mix.)

Read this link. http://en.wikipedia....gh_the_Out_Door

I doubt John Paul Jones felt any pressure on ITTOD. He likes his new toys... When they recorded Presence, he was heavily into his Alembic 4 and 8 string Basses.. Presence is loaded with killer Bass playing .... Jimmy was with Robert (who was still in a wheelchair from his Aug 4th 75 car accident) and they got a lot of material together before JPJ and JB showed up.. but JPJ and Bonzo kicked ass on Presence.

Robert Plant's voice is strained on Presence from the accident, singing in a wheelchair with a leg covered in plaster and whatever else.. Just before the 1977 tour, RP contracted tonsilitis and had his tonsils removed. This delayed the tour start by 3 weeks... After this surgery, his voice was much stronger in 77-79 then it was in 75-76..

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Actually, it's 'I can't get back again'.

Sorry, still can't hear any suicidal tendencies in the lyrics. Just profound regret - no more, no less.

I never said there was any suicidal tendencies in the lyric. I said "Tea For One" was hardly a ballad, that it was more like a suicide note set to a dirge. That's called an analogy, meaning a comparison based on a similarity, not actually literal. All cleared up for you now?

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I doubt John Paul Jones felt any pressure on ITTOD. He likes his new toys... When they recorded Presence, he was heavily into his Alembic 4 and 8 string Basses.. Presence is loaded with killer Bass playing .... Jimmy was with Robert (who was still in a wheelchair from his Aug 4th 75 car accident) and they got a lot of material together before JPJ and JB showed up.. but JPJ and Bonzo kicked ass on Presence.

I don't want to get to much into the Presence album here because I like to stay on topic. To rephrase or elaborate on the "pressure" on JPJ comment, I meant that from a songwriting credit perspective. He is only creditied with one song on Presence. Royal Orleans. He made up for that on ITTOD.

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I don't have much more to add from what I wrote earlier in this thread, but one thing you may notice about the live versions of In The Evening is how Jimmy's outro solo (towards the end after the final verse/chorus) progressed from the Knebworth versions to the European tour versions the following year.

I think his 1980 solos for In the Evening are amazing; shredding the guitar with blistering wah-wah pedal. It's chilling! Not that the 1979 solos weren't any good, mind. They rocked. To me, it's progress such as this signifies that Jimmy still had the hunger and chops to develop his solos and wasn't nearly as 'depleted' as is often presumed or commented upon both here and elsewhere.

One can merely speculate where they could've headed with ITE and other ITTOD tracks in the live setting... but at least we have the DVD and numerous 1980 soundboards to enjoy.

Although the question has always niggled me: had Zep continued, who knows how many 1980s "hair metal" bands we could've been saved from! Those many awful bands who filled the vacuum that Zep left behind... *shudders*

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Although the question has always niggled me: had Zep continued, who knows how many 1980s "hair metal" bands we could've been saved from! Those many awful bands who filled the vacuum that Zep left behind... *shudders*

This is true, But I think the positive influence Zeppelin had on the Seattle explosion in the early 90's really balanced out the crap that was going down in L.A. "hair metal" scene mid to late 80's.

Bands like Soundgarden, Alice in Chains and Pearl Jam really cleaned the slate and got it right.

Let me also give props to the Red Hot Chili Peppers for being the best band to come out of L.A. in the

80's and also being a major factor in destroying the pretentious glam rock hair metal scene they were surrounded by.

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Boy, did this thread get off track.

On a different note, I am really loving "I'm Gonna Crawl" more and more with every listen.

Yeah, I gotta agree with you there man. It's a damn good straight forward simple but catchy blues jam. Not too long or short. Just enough to get the point across..Plant's gonna crawl! RP's vocals on the whole album has got to be one of my favorites. It's got a deeper tone but he belts out some good screams and sometimes even sounds like the voice of 72. He definitly wanted to prove it to himself that he could do this again, so he came full force with this group of recordings. I really enjoy listening to him here. I love that scream towards the end of I'm Gonna Crawl...F***in awesome stuff!!!

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Carouselambra lyrics:

This may be the set of phrases directed at Page?

Where was your word, where did you go?

Where was your helping, where was your bow? Bow.

Dull is the armour, cold is the day.

Hard was the journey, dark was the way. Way.

This section sounds like a reference to the news Plant heard when his son died. He flew home and the tour was cancelled. That's what I gather from this anyway.

I heard the word; I couldn't stay. Oh.

I couldn't stand it another day, another day,

Another day, another day.

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This is true, But I think the positive influence Zeppelin had on the Seattle explosion in the early 90's really balanced out the crap that was going down in L.A. "hair metal" scene mid to late 80's.

Bands like Soundgarden, Alice in Chains and Pearl Jam really cleaned the slate and got it right.

Let me also give props to the Red Hot Chili Peppers for being the best band to come out of L.A. in the

80's and also being a major factor in destroying the pretentious glam rock hair metal scene they were surrounded by.

Yes. Just yes. I so agree with you on this. I don't get why Zeppelin is more often associated with the hair glam music that the Alternative Seattle Grunge music. The media makes it like Zeppelin, so Def Leppard, Poison, Cinderella, whatever. The Encomium Zeppelin tribute album showed that to be so not right.

Of course Page himself has seemed to align himself more musically with the more glam end of things than other areas. In the early nineties, he went on a tear, playing with Posion, Bon Jovi, hanging out with Warrant, working with Coverdale. Even Outrider leaned a bit in that direction, with the splashy drums. The production on Coverdale Page was closer to hair metal than anything else.

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Carouselambra lyrics:

This may be the set of phrases directed at Page?

Where was your word, where did you go?

Where was your helping, where was your bow? Bow.

Dull is the armour, cold is the day.

Hard was the journey, dark was the way. Way.

This section sounds like a reference to the news Plant heard when his son died. He flew home and the tour was cancelled. That's what I gather from this anyway.

I heard the word; I couldn't stay. Oh.

I couldn't stand it another day, another day,

Another day, another day.

Robert Plant wrote the lyrics about the state of the band at the time: they were not all getting along. Jimmy Page and John Bonham were spending a lot of time together enjoying life as Rock Stars, while Plant and John Paul Jones were showing up on time and doing most of the work on the album. As a result, the band wasn't working together as much, but Page and Bonham were capable of working on their own and would add their parts when they did show up, usually very late at night. The lyrics ended up getting drowned out in the mix, mostly by Page's guitar, so they are very hard to understand.

I believe the "hunter's eye" to be a reference to the heroin that had takin over Jimmy,John and Richard.The verse that starts "where was your word" is about Peter, Jimmy and John Paul not being there at Karac's funeral."They had to stay" refering to them staying in New Orleans after Richard ,john and him returned to England

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Robert Plant wrote the lyrics about the state of the band at the time: they were not all getting along. Jimmy Page and John Bonham were spending a lot of time together enjoying life as Rock Stars, while Plant and John Paul Jones were showing up on time and doing most of the work on the album. As a result, the band wasn't working together as much, but Page and Bonham were capable of working on their own and would add their parts when they did show up, usually very late at night. The lyrics ended up getting drowned out in the mix, mostly by Page's guitar, so they are very hard to understand.

I believe the "hunter's eye" to be a reference to the heroin that had takin over Jimmy,John and Richard.The verse that starts "where was your word" is about Peter, Jimmy and John Paul not being there at Karac's funeral."They had to stay" refering to them staying in New Orleans after Richard ,john and him returned to England

Yeah, I think that sounds about right. There are all sort of things mentioned in the lyrics that could be mean just about anything about anybody, but the one's you pointed out sound pretty accurate. Although, I don't agree that his vocals were buried because of the guitar. They were brought down in general, and JPJ's bass and Keyboards are the loudest two instruments on the track. Not only are the vocals the most buried in the track, the guitars are buried as well (with the exception of the middle section) and they sound very muddy. If you search youtube, you can find a few unmixed versions that have the drums (which also sit a little low) and vocals adjusted a little higher in the mix. Strange that they were buried in the final. It's some of Plants best work as a lyricist and vocalist.

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http://youtu.be/0yAGrwc6lqg Where they could have gone after ITTOD if they had worked on this a bit more.

i would kind of hope that they would record it how it was there, with a guitar centered garage sound to it, it sort of fits the compact vibe of the song. to hear led zeppelin doing this type of music is really amazing to me...they really could have done so much more. there actually is alot goin on in that song with zeppelin too, they address bits of their own live vibes, page and plant and the outro stuff by bonham i could have seen being extended maybe on a record and am almost hearing an 80s vibe to that,the change up. maybe its listening to pages session work on his site lately, but i first heard a 60s vibe floating into that track, maybe that was the beat and something plant used on tall cool one...but the more i listened to it, it was my listening going back to led zeppelin as a band sound.

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