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What are the differences between the release of How the West Was Won compared to the release of How The West Was Redone. Thanks to all who reply.

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Dont know why this posted so many times, could a moderator please delete the extra's. Thank you.

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What are the differences between the release of How the West Was Won compared to the release of How The West Was Redone. Thanks to all who reply.

I've never heard of How the West Was Redone (which I'm guessing is a boot) but perhaps you'll find this entry on How the West Was Won at The Garden Tapes website to be helpful.

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^^ Agreed. Kevin Shirleys harshness has been smoothed out. Winston used the DVD-A multitrack version to put his release together. Otherwise the contents are the same.

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Also, if you really want to hear what John Paul Jones plays, he is right up front in the mix now. The volume of the guitar has been reduced a little and now you can hear everything quite well. As it was said elsewhere upon hearing Heartbreaker..."my sub woofer just jizzed on the carpet" :blink::D

I prefer this mix because of the reduced harshness and the up front bass. JPJ's bass lines are just soooooooo good.

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Also, if you really want to hear what John Paul Jones plays, he is right up front in the mix now. The volume of the guitar has been reduced a little and now you can hear everything quite well. As it was said elsewhere upon hearing Heartbreaker..."my sub woofer just jizzed on the carpet" :blink::D

I prefer this mix because of the reduced harshness and the up front bass. JPJ's bass lines are just soooooooo good.

Well you have sold it to me :)

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A Winston remaster of anything is worthwhile having and How The West Was Redone is no exception. A must have and a great improvement.

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A Winston remaster of anything is worthwhile having and How The West Was Redone is no exception. A must have and a great improvement.

Absolutely - Winston does great work.

How the West Was Redone is actually more of a remaster and a remix. Of course Winston had no access to the original multitracks, but since he used the separate surround channels from the 5.1 mix, and he could rearrange them and adjust their volumes individually, he basically was able to do a remix.

As for un-brickwalling them, I'm not sure if he actually did any clip repair. The DVD-Audio mixes (both the 5.1 and the 2.0 stereo) aren't as compressed and brickwalled as the CD mix to begin with. So the perception of less brickwalling might just come from the original source itself, and the fact that his mix makes everything sound clearer and more distinct, with more "air."

As for the actual content, the music is pretty much identical. I think the only change he made was to loop the 14-second first track, "L.A. Drone," to increase its length to something closer to the actual length it from the concert.

At any rate, it's a great effort on his part - and also a nice way to hear a version of the out-of-print and hard to find DVD-Audio version of this release.

Edited by tmtomh

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As someone who still loves the CD release - it's clearly the best live album that has ever been sold, brickwalled or no - I was a little underwhelmed (after repeated listens) to Winston's work on this.

(No offence.)

Most of that feeling can be attributed to my dislike of the actual "mix" that Winston applied: For example, there are some weird transitions from crowd noise to "OMG MUSIC" (see "Whole Lotta Love"), which I find lacking/much more listenable in the original mix. I'm also incredibly used to/biased toward/really enjoy the mix that Shirley employed - that is, the stereo separation of the instruments/vocals to their respective locations on the stage, as seen by the audience (bass mostly left, guitar right, vocals and drums roughly central).

I'd disagree with publicenemy on the volume of the guitar - it's volume has been drastically reduced to the point that, during some songs (especially "Heartbreaker" before the guitar solo) it can barely be heard above the up-frontness of Jonesy and Plant. And, as much as I love dat bass, it eventually becomes a bit overwhelming - especially for my poor ears. Winston should have called this Jonesy's Revenge for Not-Being-as-Loud-on-the-DVD-(or at least the RAH section)-as-He'd-Have-Liked.

As for the actual content, the music is pretty much identical. I think the only change he made was to loop the 14-second first track, "L.A. Drone," to increase its length to something closer to the actual length it from the concert.

Actually, that's another of my complaints - the length of the drone on HTWWR is the same as the original CD version, which (I suppose) means the version on the DVD-A is only fourteen seconds long as well. Meanwhile, the version included on the official Led Zeppelin DVD is twenty-five seconds long - which is still only an eighth of the actual two-minute length of the drone, as heard on the audience tape.

Edited by Melcórë

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As for the actual content, the music is pretty much identical. I think the only change he made was to loop the 14-second first track, "L.A. Drone," to increase its length to something closer to the actual length it from the concert.

So have you actualy heard HTWWR? I suspect not because L.A Drone is no different in length than on HTWWW. EDIT.. Hmmm. Had not read the Melcore comment on the same point.

Edited by johnthomasmoby

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So have you actualy heard HTWWR? I suspect not because L.A Drone is no different in length than on HTWWW. EDIT.. Hmmm. Had not read the Melcore comment on the same point.

I have indeed heard all of HWWWR. I prefaced my LA Drone comment with "I think" - because I don't remember.

That said, I don't entirely disagree with Melcore. I find the official CD too brickwalled and dense. But I find Winston's remaster, HWWWR, a little light on the bass, among other things. Winston himself more or less agrees, saying he thinks it's worth it for the extra clarity and instrument separation.

Personally, my favorite version is the 2.0 stereo mix on the DVD-A version. It's a little less brickwalled and a little more open-sounding than the CD, but still packs all the punch.

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I might have been a little harsh on Winston earlier. It's not bad, it's just different, and not necessarily what I prefer.

For what it's worth, I might attempt my hand at an alternative to Winston's version at some point. That is, if apathy/laziness/not-having-the-DVD don't stop me! :P

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I might have been a little harsh on Winston earlier. It's not bad, it's just different, and not necessarily what I prefer.

For what it's worth, I might attempt my hand at an alternative to Winston's version at some point. That is, if apathy/laziness/not-having-the-DVD don't stop me! :P

Winston's is definitely the result of a specific goal/choice: he wanted to make it sound less like a commercially produced record with excess loudness and compression - and more like a well-mastered raw multitrack. The result is that it sounds clearer, with more air and separation - but it does lack some of the characteristics we're used to when we hear a professional release.

It's less fatiguing to the ear than the official CD, and it allows you - if you're interested - to listen more analytically to what's going on with each of the four guys during the songs.

That's why I like the DVD-A 2.0 stereo mix. It's a nice compromise between the CD and Winston's: less fatiguing than the CD, but preserving more of the balls-out, Hammer-of-the-Gods impact than Winston's.

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Winston's is definitely the result of a specific goal/choice: he wanted to make it sound less like a commercially produced record with excess loudness and compression - and more like a well-mastered raw multitrack. The result is that it sounds clearer, with more air and separation - but it does lack some of the characteristics we're used to when we hear a professional release.

It's less fatiguing to the ear than the official CD, and it allows you - if you're interested - to listen more analytically to what's going on with each of the four guys during the songs.

That's why I like the DVD-A 2.0 stereo mix. It's a nice compromise between the CD and Winston's: less fatiguing than the CD, but preserving more of the balls-out, Hammer-of-the-Gods impact than Winston's.

I'll have to listen to the DVD-A 2.0 mix - I've only ever heard snippets of the 5.1.

I also find that, with HTWWR, I have the opposite issue (in terms of fatigue) - the bass is too loud (at times) for me. Listening to Hendrix' Band of Gypsys earlier, I was actually reminded of Winston's work - the (at times) less present/echoey guitar seems similar across both releases.

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Yes, the guitar is turned way down. I enjoy hearing what JPJ has to play, he is Zeppelin's secret weapon after all. It is a nice contrast to the official release, and the perfect release would probably be somewhere in the middle.

I have not heard the 5.1 tracks, or the two channel mix. I would be interested to get my hands on the 5.1 tracks, only to listen to the third track. A copy of the dvd-a edition of HTWWW was on ebay a little while ago, I think it went for more than $100.

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Yes, the guitar is turned way down. I enjoy hearing what JPJ has to play, he is Zeppelin's secret weapon after all. It is a nice contrast to the official release, and the perfect release would probably be somewhere in the middle.

I have not heard the 5.1 tracks, or the two channel mix. I would be interested to get my hands on the 5.1 tracks, only to listen to the third track. A copy of the dvd-a edition of HTWWW was on ebay a little while ago, I think it went for more than $100.

Yeah, they're pretty expensive - though if you keep an eye out you can get an occasional deal. After a few months of waiting, I managed to get one on eBay for about $58. If you're willing to pay somewhere around $70-80, you shouldn't have to wait long. They seem to show up in waves.

I found the 5.1 mix to be a bit disappointing actually. I assume by "third track" you mean the front-center track, yes? That's got some low-frequency info and the vocals. There are programs that can do a stereo mixdown from the 5.1 mix - and when they do, that center channel is too low in the mix, resulting in anemic bass and less-prominent vocals.

Regardless, it's true that Winston turned Jimmy's guitar down. He might also have mixed the rear guitar channel - with all the reverb in it - higher and the front guitar channel lower. One of the reasons the official CD is so amazing - but also kind of annoying - is that Page's guitar not only is turned way up, but it also doesn't have a lot of reverb or air in it. So it kicks you right in the mouth, which is cool - but it also tends to drown out much of the rhythm section, especially poor Jonesy.

Edited by tmtomh

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I found the 5.1 mix to be a bit disappointing actually. I assume by "third track" you mean the front-center track, yes? That's got some low-frequency info and the vocals. There are programs that can do a stereo mixdown from the 5.1 mix - and when they do, that center channel is too low in the mix, resulting in anemic bass and less-prominent vocals.

I do mean the front-center track. The guitar is mostly gone and all that's left is some drums, bass, vocals, and in some cases keyboards. It kind of fun to hear.

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I do mean the front-center track. The guitar is mostly gone and all that's left is some drums, bass, vocals, and in some cases keyboards. It kind of fun to hear.

Yes - it is really cool to listen to that track by itself. :thumbsup:

Edited by tmtomh

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Well, Knock me down (was going to say something else) I've never bothered to listen to the Stereo option on the DVD-A until now, fkinell it's good...

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I just got my copy of How The West Was Redone, thanks to a friend in the far east... and I must admit it sounds a lot nicer than the cd version I had from How The West Was Won...

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can someone pm me a link for the winston remaster?

Me too, if that is permissable here.

Thanks!

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Can anyone tell me if the stereo separation is different, even a tiny bit? On the CD, Page is BARELY to the right, and Jones is BARELY to the left side. I am considering using some of my gear to get rid of the "effects" such as echo/"doubling" but I need to know if the stereo field is ANY different.

Can someone point me in the right direction to get the 2.0 rip (stereo) from the DVD-A?

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I just got my copy of How The West Was Redone, thanks to a friend in the far east... and I must admit it sounds a lot nicer than the cd version I had from How The West Was Won...

Did you pay for a copy? :(

Can anyone tell me if the stereo separation is different, even a tiny bit? On the CD, Page is BARELY to the right, and Jones is BARELY to the left side. I am considering using some of my gear to get rid of the "effects" such as echo/"doubling" but I need to know if the stereo field is ANY different.

The DVD-A 2.0 is nearly (if not quite) identical to the CD -- it's maybe mastered a little less hot, but is otherwise the same. The 5.1 tracks can be played around with to alter the sonic image, which is what Winston did with his "remaster."

Edited by Melcórë

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