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jpenzabene

Pontiac Silverdome 1977

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I was told by a production team staffer in the '80s that the whereabouts of a vault of materials were known only by Lew Grade. The same staffer said he remembers preparation for the '77 shows at Atlanta, Houston, Seattle, Tempe, OC/ACC & New Orleans to be pro-shot at least in part for promo work- while Seattle, Houston and Pontiac being done completely. He also went on to comment that promo plans cratered by Graham due to the goings on at different arenas during the tour, namely OC/ACC.

Houston will show up at some point- the rest (if they still exist) hope against hope.

Woo hoo! A Tempe '77 Pro Shot!!! That's a real must see!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously, though...there is a member of the forum named The Rover who attended the Houston '77 show who has stated here on more than one occasion that there were no video screens at the Summit like there were at the Pontiac Silverdome or at the Kingdome in Seattle...The Rover said that there were no cameramen on the stage at all, for that matter. So I'd imagine based on that 'eyewitness account' that a Houston '77 pro shot existing has more or less been debunked.

I have a LP boot that is the same audio as the one in wide circulation although it is less muddy. It came from Japan in '82- no artwork, no sleeve- I suspect it was RoIO via Clint Heylin or Swinging Pig.

There was a 1st generation version of the recording used for the common boot (Hot Rods In Pontiac) circulated a couple years back that is vastly superior to the bootleg CD...presumably yer LP boot used the same superior source (the 1st gen is a definite improvement over HRIP; it sounds like a completely different recording except it's not- the Hot Rods boot was clearly overprocessed, which is nothing unusual when it comes to bootleg companies...)

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Well seeing as these '77 boards have now started to pop out of the woodwork again, I wouldn't discount anything.

I've been saying for years that there is probably a large amount of 1977 soundboards in existence not unlike 1975...I'm sure we'll see all of em pop up in drabs and drabs over the next few years...hopefully including some of the shows there are no corresponding audience recordings for (Houston '77 being a good example; there was no audience tape but there was a soundboard)

Edited by Nutrocker

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Woo hoo! A Tempe '77 Pro Shot!!! That's a real must see!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously, though...there is a member of the forum named The Rover who attended the Houston '77 show who has stated here on more than one occasion that there were no video screens at the Summit like there were at the Pontiac Silverdome or at the Kingdome in Seattle...The Rover said that there were no cameramen on the stage at all, for that matter. So I'd imagine based on that 'eyewitness account' that a Houston '77 pro shot existing has more or less been debunked.

There was a 1st generation version of the recording used for the common boot (Hot Rods In Pontiac) circulated a couple years back that is vastly superior to the bootleg CD...presumably yer LP boot used the same superior source (the 1st gen is a definite improvement over HRIP; it sounds like a completely different recording except it's not- the Hot Rods boot was clearly overprocessed, which is nothing unusual when it comes to bootleg companies...)

I am not saying The Rover is full of crap but I have seen alot of shows at the Summit and some of the ones I saw were videotaped and I have them in my collection. When I saw Aerosmith in 1984- no camera men on the stage- it was all done with about 3 cameras positioned elsewhere-not on the stage or right up on it either. One I remember was by the mixing board on the floor.

That paticular show I was on the 3rd row so I would know there was no camera men on the stage. There is a complete video tape of the show to.

Here is a link to photos from that show I saw.

http://www.rockinhouston.com/performers/aerosmith/122/

Edited by DavidZoso

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I am not saying The Rover is full of crap but I have seen alot of shows at the Summit and some of the ones I saw were videotaped and I have them in my collection. When I saw Aerosmith in 1984- no camera men on the stage- it was all done with about 3 cameras positioned elsewhere-not on the stage or right up on it either. One I remember was by the mixing board on the floor.

That paticular show I was on the 3rd row so I would know there was no camera men on the stage. There is a complete video tape of the show to.

Here is a link to photos from that show I saw.

http://www.rockinhou.../aerosmith/122/

There are also pro shot videos from Aerosmith's 1977 Houston appearance as well as Crosby, Stills and Nash from the same year (and, yeah, soundboards and videos for both gigs circulate, see below)

Aerosmith:

CSN:

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That paticular show I was on the 3rd row so I would know there was no camera men on the stage. There is a complete video tape of the show to0.

You sir are correct and Rover may be correct. As you know, the A/V for The Summit (cutting edge and lavish at the time) was incorporated into the structure of the building via crop outs and use of the catwalk assemblies: CCTV1, CCTV2 and A/V for the sports enterprises who leased The Summit. All three stand alone from TV International and whomever else were contracted at the time.

Springsteen's '78 concert video was pulled directly from an inhouse feed supplemented by two contracted additional cameras plugged into the house A/V deck.

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Woo hoo! A Tempe '77 Pro Shot!!! That's a real must see!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hey Nutrocker, between you and this great find by PlanetPage, and this review from the ASU State Press, I would love to see this just to prove that Jimmy was better than advertised, and Plant was the one who hurt this show more than Jimmy. Yes, Jimmy's solo on TUF was bad, but they hadn't played that for six weeks, and ALS, well, if you had pyro technics going off unexpectedly by your ears...I'm sure you'd be off your game on that song too.

But in listening to this show again, your right: Plant really is terrible. Battle of Evermore and Going to California are awful vocally, and I did notice on ALS he didn't help matters by coming in early on one of the verses in that song.

Outside all of that though, I'd want this pro shot to see the first half of the show, which by the many reviews, was allegedly decent. Oh, and it would be funny to see Plant helping Jimmy with his foot pedals on OTHAFA, ha ha!

http://forums.ledzep...z-july-20-1977/

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Woo hoo! A Tempe '77 Pro Shot!!! That's a real must see!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hey Nutrocker, between you and this great find by PlanetPage, and this review from the ASU State Press, I would love to see this just to prove that Jimmy was better than advertised, and Plant was the one who hurt this show more than Jimmy. Yes, Jimmy's solo on TUF was bad, but they hadn't played that for six weeks, and ALS, well, if you had pyro technics going off unexpectedly by your ears...I'm sure you'd be off your game on that song too.

But in listening to this show again, your right: Plant really is terrible. Battle of Evermore and Going to California are awful vocally, and I did notice on ALS he didn't help matters by coming in early on one of the verses in that song.

Outside all of that though, I'd want this pro shot to see the first half of the show, which by the many reviews, was allegedly decent. Oh, and it would be funny to see Plant helping Jimmy with his foot pedals on OTHAFA, ha ha!

http://forums.ledzep...z-july-20-1977/

Actually I was being sarcastic with my "must see!" remark...but only a little bit. Every time I hear the Tempe recording it just reinforces my belief that the reputation of the performance as "Zeppelin's Worst Concert" is a tad much...and generally held by those who have never actually heard the show, I'd reckon. Between myself and others here I think we've done our bit to sort of give some true perspective on the gig. If not for Plant's voice being in horrible shape, it's not that bad of a show considering that it sounds like it was a rowdy audience and the band was very late getting onstage, necessitating a few shortcuts here and there. That's all based on the audience tape, of course -as mediocre as it is (it's the only recording I own where I actually had to tweak it before I could actually listen to the whole thing; my remaster circulates and I'm pretty sure it was used as the basis for the Pride Of Chelsea boot that just came out)- I bet seeing a pro shot video of the Tempe performance would be very revealing, and not just to hear the first seven songs (missing on the audience tape). Who knows...maybe we'll get the soundboard one o' these days...for me that would be a must hear, and no sarcasm this time...

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a friend of mine said he was there and they did stairway 3 times for an oncore. is he full of shit? He also said they were booed off stage and came back out. people were leaving. the band was all phucked up and said they would never return to detroit

This is kinda a compilation of all the Detroit rumors I have heard over the years. I heard one Cobo Hall show wasn't up to snuff and some people walked out (either the 72 or 73 tour). Also, if you believe Richard Cole, Bonzo said he never wanted to play Detroit again after the power kept going out at a Grande Ballroom show. It must not have been too bad as they had two shows scheduled at Joe Louis Arena for the 1980 tour.

Edited by The Grande @ Detroit

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I've been saying for years that there is probably a large amount of 1977 soundboards in existence not unlike 1975...I'm sure we'll see all of em pop up in drabs and drabs over the next few years...hopefully including some of the shows there are no corresponding audience recordings for (Houston '77 being a good example; there was no audience tape but there was a soundboard)

Well all these people who enjoy dissing boot companies better think on. If it wasn't for EVSD stumping up to release these things, they would likely never see the light of day. I'm looking forward to seeing what they come up with after the Landover releases.

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Well all these people who enjoy dissing boot companies better think on. If it wasn't for EVSD stumping up to release these things, they would likely never see the light of day. I'm looking forward to seeing what they come up with after the Landover releases.

Hence why the bootleg companies are a 'necessary evil', as it were...EVSD in particular must have some heavy connections since they're the ones who tend to come out with these new soundboards first it seems...

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mrledhed   

Hence why the bootleg companies are a 'necessary evil', as it were...EVSD in particular must have some heavy connections since they're the ones who tend to come out with these new soundboards first it seems...

Not true. If it weren't for EVSD we'd have everything. The boot industry slows things down.

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mrledhed   

If it weren't for EVSD we'd have nothing.

Traders would have trsuted each other if it weren't for bootleggers.

The bootleg industry has a monopoly that gets in the way of collector endeavors.

They increase the cost of acquiring tapes.

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Traders would have trsuted each other if it weren't for bootleggers.

The bootleg industry has a monopoly that gets in the way of collector endeavors.

They increase the cost of acquiring tapes.

So basically, it's good and bad at the same time.

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Not true. If it weren't for EVSD we'd have everything. The boot industry slows things down.

Traders would have trsuted each other if it weren't for bootleggers.

The bootleg industry has a monopoly that gets in the way of collector endeavors.

They increase the cost of acquiring tapes.

Oh yeah, because you can just tell the 'traders' who own all these 1975 and 1977 soundboards we've seen pop up over the years were in so much of a hurry to distribute them to the masses without the help of EVSD, etc :lol::rolleyes:

I'd suggest you read Bootleg: The Secret History Of The Other Recording Industry by Clinton Heylin some time (if you haven't already)...the original tapers who started this little cottage industry over fourty years ago weren't exactly doing it to, like, 'share the tooonz, maaaaan'...they were taping them shows because they knew there was money in it! And you better believe some of those guys were fuckin' rolling in it before too long.

Sure, traders have shared out a lot of previously uncirculated audience recordings over they years without the assistance of bootleg companies (and more often than not ended up having their tapes bootlegged eventually anyway), but I'd be brazen to say that for every recording that is being shared out there's one being hoarded...don't hold any illusions that tapers and so-called traders can't be as greedy as bootleg labels. Ask yerself: how often do you see a new previously uncirculated soundboard recording come out through kindhearted 'traders'? Answer: hardly ever.

I can guarantee you that if the Pontiac '77 pro shot exists (or any of the other pro shot concerts we've seen mentioned in this discussion) it's ain't gonna make it out to the masses through kind, well meaning tape traders. No, we'll see it come out through EVSD or Godfather or some bootleg label because the people who actually possess these films know goddamn well what they are worth, and fuckin' A, they're gonna get whatever they can for them. And ya know, ya can't really fault them for that. These guys aren't schmucks; they're not dumb by any stretch of the imagination.

As much as I'd love to believe that the music trading community (online or otherwise) is all about sharing, friendliness and kindness to their fellow man/woman, the harsh reality has been that that usually isn't the case. The amount of backstabbing, double dealing, and misrepresentation that goes on is actually pretty sick. As 'evil' as bootleg companies can be, the worst tape trading stories I've heard of over the years had nothing to do with bootleggers. As I said earlier, bootleggers are a necessary evil when it comes to unofficial live music, they're a business like any other, and run off of supply and demand like any other business.

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mrledhed   

Oh yeah, because you can just tell the 'traders' who own all these 1975 and 1977 soundboards we've seen pop up over the years were in so much of a hurry to distribute them to the masses without the help of EVSD, etc :lol::rolleyes:

I'd suggest you read Bootleg: The Secret History Of The Other Recording Industry by Clinton Heylin some time (if you haven't already)...the original tapers who started this little cottage industry over fourty years ago weren't exactly doing it to, like, 'share the tooonz, maaaaan'...they were taping them shows because they knew there was money in it! And you better believe some of those guys were fuckin' rolling in it before too long.

Sure, traders have shared out a lot of previously uncirculated audience recordings over they years without the assistance of bootleg companies (and more often than not ended up having their tapes bootlegged eventually anyway), but I'd be brazen to say that for every recording that is being shared out there's one being hoarded...don't hold any illusions that tapers and so-called traders can't be as greedy as bootleg labels. Ask yerself: how often do you see a new previously uncirculated soundboard recording come out through kindhearted 'traders'? Answer: hardly ever.

I can guarantee you that if the Pontiac '77 pro shot exists (or any of the other pro shot concerts we've seen mentioned in this discussion) it's ain't gonna make it out to the masses through kind, well meaning tape traders. No, we'll see it come out through EVSD or Godfather or some bootleg label because the people who actually possess these films know goddamn well what they are worth, and fuckin' A, they're gonna get whatever they can for them. And ya know, ya can't really fault them for that. These guys aren't schmucks; they're not dumb by any stretch of the imagination.

As much as I'd love to believe that the music trading community (online or otherwise) is all about sharing, friendliness and kindness to their fellow man/woman, the harsh reality has been that that usually isn't the case. The amount of backstabbing, double dealing, and misrepresentation that goes on is actually pretty sick. As 'evil' as bootleg companies can be, the worst tape trading stories I've heard of over the years had nothing to do with bootleggers. As I said earlier, bootleggers are a necessary evil when it comes to unofficial live music, they're a business like any other, and run off of supply and demand like any other business.

But collectors would sell to each other, knowing they won't resell to a bootlegger.

Some hoarders won't sell to bootleggers. EVSD would NEVER pay enough to unearth the good stuff like Pontiac 77. They only get what is cheap enough to make them a profit.

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But collectors would sell to each other, knowing they won't resell to a bootlegger.

Sure they would :lol: They have...it doesn't happen all the time, mind ya, but tapes have been traded/sold and then resold to bootleggers in the past. No offense, but you'd have to be pretty fuckin' naive to think that some collectors' intentions are totally pure.

Some hoarders won't sell to bootleggers. EVSD would NEVER pay enough to unearth the good stuff like Pontiac 77. They only get what is cheap enough to make them a profit.

I am betting those '75 and '77 soundboards don't come cheap...

But you are correct, some hoarders hoard their recordings just so the tapes don't fall into the hands of bootleggers.

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Oh yeah, because you can just tell the 'traders' who own all these 1975 and 1977 soundboards we've seen pop up over the years were in so much of a hurry to distribute them to the masses without the help of EVSD, etc :lol::rolleyes:

I'd suggest you read Bootleg: The Secret History Of The Other Recording Industry by Clinton Heylin some time (if you haven't already)...the original tapers who started this little cottage industry over fourty years ago weren't exactly doing it to, like, 'share the tooonz, maaaaan'...they were taping them shows because they knew there was money in it! And you better believe some of those guys were fuckin' rolling in it before too long.

Sure, traders have shared out a lot of previously uncirculated audience recordings over they years without the assistance of bootleg companies (and more often than not ended up having their tapes bootlegged eventually anyway), but I'd be brazen to say that for every recording that is being shared out there's one being hoarded...don't hold any illusions that tapers and so-called traders can't be as greedy as bootleg labels. Ask yerself: how often do you see a new previously uncirculated soundboard recording come out through kindhearted 'traders'? Answer: hardly ever.

I can guarantee you that if the Pontiac '77 pro shot exists (or any of the other pro shot concerts we've seen mentioned in this discussion) it's ain't gonna make it out to the masses through kind, well meaning tape traders. No, we'll see it come out through EVSD or Godfather or some bootleg label because the people who actually possess these films know goddamn well what they are worth, and fuckin' A, they're gonna get whatever they can for them. And ya know, ya can't really fault them for that. These guys aren't schmucks; they're not dumb by any stretch of the imagination.

As much as I'd love to believe that the music trading community (online or otherwise) is all about sharing, friendliness and kindness to their fellow man/woman, the harsh reality has been that that usually isn't the case. The amount of backstabbing, double dealing, and misrepresentation that goes on is actually pretty sick. As 'evil' as bootleg companies can be, the worst tape trading stories I've heard of over the years had nothing to do with bootleggers. As I said earlier, bootleggers are a necessary evil when it comes to unofficial live music, they're a business like any other, and run off of supply and demand like any other business.

Excellent post Nutrocker! :bravo:

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But collectors would sell to each other, knowing they won't resell to a bootlegger.

Some hoarders won't sell to bootleggers. EVSD would NEVER pay enough to unearth the good stuff like Pontiac 77. They only get what is cheap enough to make them a profit.

Well so far they've already unearthed one of the MSG '75 gigs (a big show), one from MSG '77 (a big show), Seattle '75 (big show), the complete Landover '77 run. You don't class those as "good stuff"? Jeez...years ago all we has was the 'Destroyer' soundboard. I'm quite sure that eventually Pontiac will turn up (assuming the tape still exists), together with some or all of that LA Forum '77 run & the other Seattle'75.

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mrledhed   

Well so far they've already unearthed one of the MSG '75 gigs (a big show), one from MSG '77 (a big show), Seattle '75 (big show), the complete Landover '77 run. You don't class those as "good stuff"? Jeez...years ago all we has was the 'Destroyer' soundboard. I'm quite sure that eventually Pontiac will turn up (assuming the tape still exists), together with some or all of that LA Forum '77 run & the other Seattle'75.

Those aren't the good stuff. If you consider those MSG dates "good concerts", you haven't listened to audience tapes of other concerts like I have. What about 03/12-21/75?

There are soundboards from concerts we haven't heard as aud tapes. What about those? You see the point?

If it weren't for bootleggers, we'd have nothing because the traders would've hoarded all of the material.

But they do, that's why they hoard the tapes.

Bootleggers = bad

Edited by mrledhed

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Those aren't the good stuff. If you consider those MSG dates "good concerts", you haven't listened to audience tapes of other concerts like I have. What about 03/12-21/75?

No offense, ledhed, but a statement like the one I bolded makes you sound like an elitist snob. What, the only good concerts are the ones mrLedhed considers good? :lol::rolleyes: Gimme a fuckin' break...I was not aware that all of a sudden you've become the Final Authority on these things...

Bootleggers = bad

Bootleggers = necessary evil, get it right...you do realize that if it weren't for bootleggers we wouldn't have a lot of the unofficial recordings we all know and love, yeah? Otherwise, if you consider bootleggers so bad, I suggest that you take all of the recordings you own that were first circulated by bootleggers and burn them- I guarantee you yer collection will be a helluva lot smaller if you take bootleggers out of the equation...

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There are also pro shot videos from Aerosmith's 1977 Houston appearance as well as Crosby, Stills and Nash from the same year (and, yeah, soundboards and videos for both gigs circulate, see below)

Aerosmith:

CSN:

Nutrocker I have both of those Aerosmith shows from 1977 on video and another show I saw them at in 1988. I also have AC/DC 1983, Kansas 1980, the Cars-1984, Zebra 1984, Kiss 1976- 2 shows in 1977,Queen 1977, and the very first show ever to be played at the Summit in 1975-The Who. I had that one as a bootleg and then just recently it was released as a legit dvd with cleaned up picture and sound. So that gives me hope that there is a video and multitrack tapes for the sound for the Led Zeppelin show in 1977 at the Summit.

Jon Astley who has done most of the restoration- sound etc on all the Who releases since 1994- went in and cleaned up the sound from the multitracks and also reinstated the missing audio from 'Squeeze Box.'

I am not saying Jimmy has the multitracks from the Houston show as maybe The Who brought their own mobile truck for the show. The show though was recorded by just 2 cameras but is very enjoyable. I have hope for a Zep video some day.

Edited by DavidZoso

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But collectors would sell to each other, knowing they won't resell to a bootlegger.

Some hoarders won't sell to bootleggers. EVSD would NEVER pay enough to unearth the good stuff like Pontiac 77. They only get what is cheap enough to make them a profit.

its a shame that if they do have video of Pontiac '77 they are sitting on it. put the greatest band ever, in front of the biggest crowd ever(at the time), out so the whole world can see

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Nutrocker I have both of those Aerosmith shows from 1977 on video and another show I saw them at in 1988. I also have AC/DC 1983, Kansas 1980, the Cars-1984, Zebra 1984, Kiss 1976- 2 shows in 1977,Queen 1977, and the very first show ever to be played at the Summit in 1975-The Who. I had that one as a bootleg and then just recently it was released as a legit dvd with cleaned up picture and sound. So that gives me hope that there is a video and multitrack tapes for the sound for the Led Zeppelin show in 1977 at the Summit.

That point has been made before, David: many other bands had their Houston Summit gigs taped (and I don't believe Aerosmith for example was using video screens in 1977...The Rover's contention that there is no video of the Zeppelin '77 Houston show is based on the fact that there was no video screen at the gig ala Seattle or Pontiac). So the point is, videos and/or soundboards of all these other Houston gigs has popped up over the years, why not the Led Zeppelin concert? At least we did get the soundboard...

Jon Astley who has done most of the restoration- sound etc on all the Who releases since 1994- went in and cleaned up the sound from the multitracks and also reinstated the missing audio from 'Squeeze Box.'

Correct, I've seen it; it is indeed a major upgrade to the unofficial Who '75 Summit videos...and say what you will about Jon Astley -a lot of people tend to detest his mixing/mastering style and as a result seem to despise the man himself- but he did a good job restoring the audio as well in this particular case.

I am not saying Jimmy has the multitracks from the Houston show as maybe The Who brought their own mobile truck for the show. The show though was recorded by just 2 cameras but is very enjoyable. I have hope for a Zep video some day.

I would be inclined to say Jimmy Page does not have the Houston '77 multitracks (I believe it has been established that there are no 1977 tour multitrack recordings). I believe The Who did have their own mobile truck (possibly even Ronnie Lane's, of Physical Graffiti fame...)

its a shame that if they do have video of Pontiac '77 they are sitting on it. put the greatest band ever, in front of the biggest crowd ever(at the time), out so the whole world can see

Quite frankly at this juncture I'd settle for an alternate (superior) audience tape to pop up...there have been rumours of such a thing existing over the years. After all, it's pretty fuckin' difficult to believe that out of 76000 people or however many there were in the Silverdome on the night that only one guy had a rig running (compared to the similarly large Seattle show where there are at least three circulating audience recordings)

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