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Nutrocker

How The West Was Won II

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like a great first kiss- losing track of time is wonderful

... and for a 40:02 minute version, it didn't feel nearly that long!

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I really wish either a better tape/more complete tape/ soundboard of 1977/06/14 would show up already.

About '75 Dazed, I used to avoid it like the plague, but now I find myself specifically listening to those versions now, especially the REALLY long ones, like 1975/02/13, 1975/03/19, 1975/03/21, and 1975/03/27. I was listening to the one from the 21st last night, and for a 40:02 minute version, it didn't feel nearly that long! Everyone's playing was just so sharp, and everyone was really on the ball, even Robert was sounding his best of that tour. The 'For What It's Worth' and 'I Shot the Sherriff' portions always get me into a good, funky mood. Led Zeppelin's (specifically Robert's) affinity for reggae never ceases to amaze/amuse me.

The way I measure any version from this year is how good the 'Ethereal Interlude' (i.e. the Woodstock/San Francisco/ etc. portion) is. I feel like I might be in a pretty small demographic when I say these things, but there ain't no Dazed like a good, hot, eerie '75 Dazed from '75. Don't get me wrong, I love the versions from previous years as well, but something about all those time signatures in '75 really keeps me hooked.

Hi Sue! Your post reminded me of something I said about the 1975 Dazed and Confused...I had to search thru the wayback machine to find it...it's an extract from a review I posted on the 3.17.75 Seattle Soundboard.

DISC 3:

And now we reach the often problematic Disc 3...in fact, when you're talking about the 1975 and 1977 tours, it is often disc 3 that would kill any momentum discs 1 and 2 had built up for a particular show. For the 1975 shows, Disc 3 always starts with "Dazed and Confused", and let's call a spade a spade: by 1975 D & C had seen better days. Yeah, fanboys drool over how they would go on for 30 and 40 minutes...but those 40 minutes would contain half the inventiveness and fury of a 20-minute version from 1970-1972. I mean, look at the facts...1975 D & C's were on average about 10 minutes longer than 1973's, yet they often contained at least one LESS section(the funky break right after the first fast main solo).

Here's a list of things that annoy me about how 1975 D & C's sound on bootlegs(when you were AT the shows in person, you at least had the overwhelming volume and visuals to convince you it was awesome, although even THAT wasn't enough sometimes):

1. The PACE IS TOO DAMN SLOW! The term "Dinosaur rock" was invented for 1975 D & Cs...as the band plodded along, it sounded like a brontosaurus stuck in mud. It was as if Led Zeppelin was parodying Black Sabbath...which is NOT my idea of a good thing.

2. Page's tone on the main riff is TOO CLEAN! NO FUZZ, hardly any vibrato, there's absolutely no menace in the riff...hell, half the time, Page couldn't even be bothered to play the riff during the fourth verse after the solo.

3. Plant's lyrics are absurd, a disgrace....yeah, that's right, I said disgrace. Never mind the bite and conviction he sang the song with on the first album...on the 1975 tour he frequently couldn't even muster up 1973 tour levels. His endless repeatings of "I wanna make love to you little girl...twenty-FIVE, twenty-FIVE"(meaning 25 hours a day) were pointless and a hoary blues-rock cliche by 1972, let alone 1975. It was boring and lazy and took away any meaning from the song other than something to do while waiting for the violin-bow solo, which had the reverse effect of lessening the impact of the bow segment. For it was the way the bow-segment would musically represent the state-of-mind of being "dazed and confused" that made it something more than just a circus trick...it was psychologically in tune with the song. And his complete ignoring of the fourth verse, especially the killer kiss-off last line "Will your tongue wag so much when I send you the bill?" finally renders any audience connection with this song emotionally null-and-void. In 1975, it's just a guitar show-off piece, nothing more...

4...which would be fine, if Page had had some guitar worth showing off. But in 1975, all we really got were recycled bits from 1973, with practically none of the fluidity and fire and tone that marked earlier D & Cs. Actually, with the removal of the funky bit(with a few exceptions like 2-14), we got less bits than we got in 1973. All the segments that flowed so superbly and fluidly from one to another in 1970-1973, herked and jerked in 1975...the joints showed like in a Frankenstein monster. Even the bow solo, while visually arresting with all the smoke and lazers, would be marred sonically by Page(or the soundguy) forgetting to hit the right pickup switch or button or whatever...so that oftentimes, when Jimmy whipped at his guitar, all you heard was the anemic sound of the click. Plus, it would often be 20 minutes before they even began the fast main solo bit...that's way too long. And again, his tone is often too clean during the solo bits...his notes often sound clipped and muted instead of ringing out.

Lest I sound too negative, there were 2 parts I did love about the 1975 D & C's, and were often some of the highlights of the night.

1. "Woodstock"...yes, even more than the "San Francisco" interludes of 1973 and the early leg of the 75 tour, I felt thematically and sound-wise, the "Woodstock" interludes were better. More creepy, especially with Robert's eerie vocal moaning. And that guitar pattern that Jimmy used for this bit sounds better, more quietly beautiful, as a stand-alone riff in this way, than when used in "Achilles Last Stand", where it's hidden and less striking.

2. The final spacey-spiral jam...during every 1975 concert I saw, I would patiently wait through even the most boring and disjointed D & C for this part, for it was here that the band would, aside from No Quarter, often play the most inspired jam of the night. After the fourth and final verse, as Bonham would start playing that circular snare and tom-tom pattern, gradually ramping up the speed and intricacy, and Jones would be popping his bass along with the groove, it was here that Jimmy would finally play with some of that 1973-and-before fire and fluidity and spaciness, with his Les Paul finally firing off those high piercing notes that would sear your brain. When it was good, and when you could tell the band was into it, it would often go on for 4 or 5 minutes or more and melt your mind. The last show at the Forum was like that....so was 2-14 Nassau.

And fortunately, although Jimmy has a few false starts and takes a while to get going, March 17, 1975 has a pretty good end-jam to save a fairly pedestrian "D & C".

Edited by Strider

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Hi Sue! Your post reminded me of something I said about the 1975 Dazed and Confused...I had to search thru the wayback machine to find it...it's an extract from a review I posted on the 3.17.75 Seattle Soundboard.

For the most part, it burned my eyes to read such a scathing review. It's kinda like how I felt when reading Roger Ebert's review of 'Godzilla 1985'. Though I will admit, I did miss the 'funky bit' that was included in the '73 versions. I like the slow pace, it really builds the tension for me, knowing what's coming soon. I can't really comment on the cleanliness/dirtiness factor, as that's never been a big part of it for me. I kinda zone out during the lyrical part, to be honest, I've heard the 'Dazed' lyrics so many times they've practically become white noise to me now, except (ironically) the 25 hours portion, which may have been cliche by '75, but to someone as young as me who wouldn't know the difference, it still sounds pretty cool. That's about all I have for a rebuttal, but PM me if you want to talk more about it! :)

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I never cared about '77 until recently, never knocked the shows since I never really listened. But I've been listening to 6/21 and 6/23 lately and those are some excellent shows and bringing out an official release like this would be epic!! Someone needs to run this by Jimmy, out of all the ideas I've seen for possible future releases this is by far the best! I personally like the early days wayyyy more than later days, but this is essential to our Zep collections.

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Revisiting old threads...this is a great compilation! :) I've always loved this LA run (LTTE was the first complete Zep bootleg I ever heard, so it holds a special place in my heart). There's only a couple of changes I would make if I were making a compilation like this:

1. I'd have the 6/21 OTHAFA but move it to its position in the June 22nd setlist (perhaps after Heartbreaker on 6/21). This way, the drum and noise solos are spaced further apart, which improves the pacing and prevents the setlist from losing its momentum.

2. I'd do TUF from 6/25 instead of 6/23, due to Page's guitar cutting out on the latter. I'd be able to deal with it happening during Sick Again and Bron-Y-Aur Stomp, but three times is a bit frustrating. Plus, Page seems to have more energy on the 25th than on the 27th.

3. I'd change Moby Dick to the 21st show. A bit controversial, I know, but, Keith Moon's guest appearance aside, the 23rd is not as good as the 21st, imo. The 21st might be Bonham's best night ever, so it would make sense to use his drum solo from that show. Plus, Plant's introduction on the 21st is legendary in and of itself!

4. As others mentioned above, add It'll Be Me from the 26th at the very end, perhaps as a sort of bonus track (since the recording isn't as good).

Nitpicks aside, this compilation would be fantastic and, if released, would fill a big void in official live material from Zeppelin's latter days. Great job!

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Posted (edited)

How great would a compilation release called 'Led Zeppelin - The Very Best Live' be? It should be called that because they were the very best live. I'd love the setlist to look like this, if someone knows the best versions of each song live and where they are and can fill in the blanks and can be bothered to then please do!


Immigrant Song

Rock And Roll

Black Dog

Sick Again (The Rover intro)

Over The Hills And Far Away

Good Times Bad Times

I Can't Quit You Baby

Ramble On

Misty Mountain Hop

No Quarter

In My Time Of Dying

Celebration Day

For Your Life

Ten Years Gone

Dazed And Confused

Going To California

That's The Way

Dancing Days

White Summer/Black Mountain Side

Kashmir

The Song Remains The Same

The Rain Song

Stairway To Heaven

The Lemon Song

Moby Dick

How Many More Times

Whole Lotta Love

 

 

Sorry for the indulgence. I've probably missed something out, but as a first go this is the live album I'd love to hear.

Also, apologies to the band if they ever had to play this show live in some alternate reality because it would last about six hours.

Edited by morningson
removed songs

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2 hours ago, morningson said:

How great would a compilation release called 'Led Zeppelin - The Very Best Live' be? It should be called that because they were the very best live. I'd love the setlist to look like this, if someone knows the best versions of each song live and where they are and can fill in the blanks and can be bothered to then please do!


Immigrant Song

Rock And Roll

Black Dog

Sick Again (The Rover intro)

Over The Hills And Far Away

Good Times Bad Times

I Can't Quit You Baby

Ramble On

Misty Mountain Hop

Your Time Is Gonna Come

No Quarter

Trampled Underfoot

In My Time Of Dying

Celebration Day

For Your Life

Ten Years Gone

Dazed And Confused

Going To California

Bron-Y-Aur Stomp

That's The Way

Dancing Days

Black Country Woman

White Summer/Black Mountain Side

Kashmir

The Song Remains The Same

The Rain Song

Stairway To Heaven

The Lemon Song

Out On The Tiles

Moby Dick

How Many More Times

Communication Breakdown

Whole Lotta Love

 

 

Sorry for the indulgence. I've probably missed something out, but as a first go this is the live album I'd love to hear.

Also, apologies to the band if they ever had to play this show live in some alternate reality because it would last about six hours.

Not a fan of ITTOD I guess

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Posted (edited)

I couldn't remember if I had seen this thread before and responded. Apparently I did, hehe.

My thoughts still remain the same...Kashmir from the 25th is the best choice, It'll Be Me should be added as a bonus encore, Stairway from the 21st. If only the 22nd was a Millard tape, the Over the Hills and No Quarter would be automatic choices for the comp.

I am kind of non-commital about the drum solo, but I do agree that even if you use the 23rd, Plant's intro on the 21st is a must! I also like the idea of adding another song or two between the drum solo and noise solo. Either In My Time of Dying or Over the Hills...and possibly throw in Trampled Under Foot in there along with Heartbreaker.

In regards to a How the East Was Won '77 comp, Landover should not be allowed within 100 miles. April 27-28 Cleveland, April 30 Pontiac, Ft. Worth, and the NYC run are the only options, in my opinion. 

Sue Dounim: So sorry. I never saw your response to my last post on this thread above. But if you still have a hankering to discuss the finer points of Dazed and Confused, let me know.

Nutrocker, did you send me this comp? I don't remember getting one. I'd like one if possible. ;)

Edited by Strider

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1 hour ago, IpMan said:

Not a fan of ITTOD I guess

I am, but they never played Carouselambra live, which is the only tune I'd like to hear. Although I do like In The Evening. I knew I'd miss something out!

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2 hours ago, morningson said:

I am, but they never played Carouselambra live, which is the only tune I'd like to hear. Although I do like In The Evening. I knew I'd miss something out!

Oh yeah, a live Carouselambra would have been great. Oh well, what might have been.

Ps. What, no Hot Dog?? Just kidding

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Just worked out (because I had nothing better to do) that if this show was played live and improv kept to a bare-ish minimum, it would last approximately  3 hours and 40 minutes.

Apologies to Bonzo for overworking him. Maybe he could have a break during Going To California as that is the only song without percussion.  

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Got worried about Bonzo playing for too long and risking exhaustion so removed Communication Breakdown, Out On The Tiles, Black Country Woman, Bron-Y-Aur Stomp, Trampled Underfoot and Your Time Is Gonna Come, so therefore cutting the show down to a mere 3 hours and a bit.

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On 1/6/2017 at 9:16 AM, Strider said:

Nutrocker, did you send me this comp? I don't remember getting one. I'd like one if possible. ;)

Didn't I send it to you? I certainly meant to...give me some time to find the discs and I'll get it to you posthaste!

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On 1/6/2017 at 7:49 AM, morningson said:

How great would a compilation release called 'Led Zeppelin - The Very Best Live' be? It should be called that because they were the very best live. I'd love the setlist to look like this, if someone knows the best versions of each song live and where they are and can fill in the blanks and can be bothered to then please do!


Immigrant Song

Rock And Roll

Black Dog

Sick Again (The Rover intro)

Over The Hills And Far Away

Good Times Bad Times

I Can't Quit You Baby

Ramble On

Misty Mountain Hop

No Quarter

In My Time Of Dying

Celebration Day

For Your Life

Ten Years Gone

Dazed And Confused

Going To California

That's The Way

Dancing Days

White Summer/Black Mountain Side

Kashmir

The Song Remains The Same

The Rain Song

Stairway To Heaven

The Lemon Song

Moby Dick

How Many More Times

Whole Lotta Love

I can't comment on every single one of these songs, nor have I heard every single bootleg, but I'll comment with my favorite versions of some of the songs (at least the ones which I believe have a definitive version)

Immigrant Song - depends on if you prefer Plant's vocals or Page's guitar solo. If you prefer the former, I'd go with 9/19/70. If it's the latter, 9/29/71

Sick Again - 6/21/77. Yes, even with Page briefly cutting out in the beginning. This version is utterly devastating and more than makes up for it.

Over the Hills and Far Away - again, depends on if you prefer Plant's vocals or Page's solo. For the former: 6/25/72. For the latter: 6/22/77

No Quarter - 6/23/77 hands down

IMTOD - 6/22/77

For Your Life - The O2 version, since that was the only time they performed it live

D&C - Tough call, but I'd go with 3/16/73, though really any version from the March 73 Euro shows could qualify here

White Summer/Black Mountain Side - 6/21/77

Kashmir - 6/21/77. Since this flows with WS/BMS, it makes sense to use this version for both songs. (Sorry Strider. To my ears the June 25th version starts out slightly sluggish and only gets really good during the second half)

TSRTS - 6/21/77 courtesy of Mr. Bonham.

HMMT - 4/17/70. Even with Plant stopping several times to address the crowd, this version is absolutely killer!

WLL - 9/19/70

Of course, you'll probably get a million different recommendations for each song, but this is just my two cents! :)

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2 hours ago, ZepHead315 said:

I can't comment on every single one of these songs, nor have I heard every single bootleg, but I'll comment with my favorite versions of some of the songs (at least the ones which I believe have a definitive version)

Immigrant Song - depends on if you prefer Plant's vocals or Page's guitar solo. If you prefer the former, I'd go with 9/19/70. If it's the latter, 9/29/71

Sick Again - 6/21/77. Yes, even with Page briefly cutting out in the beginning. This version is utterly devastating and more than makes up for it.

Over the Hills and Far Away - again, depends on if you prefer Plant's vocals or Page's solo. For the former: 6/25/72. For the latter: 6/22/77

No Quarter - 6/23/77 hands down

IMTOD - 6/22/77

For Your Life - The O2 version, since that was the only time they performed it live

D&C - Tough call, but I'd go with 3/16/73, though really any version from the March 73 Euro shows could qualify here

White Summer/Black Mountain Side - 6/21/77

Kashmir - 6/21/77. Since this flows with WS/BMS, it makes sense to use this version for both songs. (Sorry Strider. To my ears the June 25th version starts out slightly sluggish and only gets really good during the second half)

TSRTS - 6/21/77 courtesy of Mr. Bonham.

HMMT - 4/17/70. Even with Plant stopping several times to address the crowd, this version is absolutely killer!

WLL - 9/19/70

Of course, you'll probably get a million different recommendations for each song, but this is just my two cents! :)

I thank you sincerely for this. I am going to listen to each and every one of your recommendations and truly appreciate you taking the time to answer.

 

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Posted (edited)

Damn brilliant. B)

Edit: thats a damn good list above

Edited by Dirty Work

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Not to toot my own horn here too much, but this thread inspired me to create a "Best of LA 77" Youtube playlist. I went and downloaded the different shows off of Black Beauty and mixed the different recordings together to make it sound like one complete concert. I did the best I could at making the songs and Plantations complete and unedited, although a few tweaks had to be done here and there.

I actually made two separate playlists: one using only the Millard tapes and one compiling all six shows. I realize some of my picks may be controversial (I chose Kashmir from the 21st rather than the 25th for example), but we all have our differing opinions and views. If you don't like my picks, feel free to make a playlist yourself. :P

Here's the Millard only playlist. I included Communication Breakdown in the encores and moved OTHAFA to its position in the June 22nd setlist (after the drum solo) to make the concert flow better and prevent it from losing momentum:

And here's the playlist of all six shows. For this playlist, I added It'll Be Me to the encores, and inserted That's Alright Mama from the 26th into the acoustic set:

Please note that I am a complete amateur at all of this. I used Audacity for editing and assembling each of the songs. No Quarter, and the drum and noise solos had to be split into parts as well. I didn't want to risk doing one complete video in case one of the songs triggered a copyright claim. Anyways, my goal was to try to make it sound like one glorious concert with switches to different tape sources depending on which night I chose to use for which song. Hopefully everything will stay up!

Enjoy it while you can! :)

Edited by ZepHead315

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11 hours ago, ZepHead315 said:

Not to toot my own horn here too much, but this thread inspired me to create a "Best of LA 77" Youtube playlist. I went and downloaded the different shows off of Black Beauty and mixed the different recordings together to make it sound like one complete concert. I did the best I could at making the songs and Plantations complete and unedited, although a few tweaks had to be done here and there.

I actually made two separate playlists: one using only the Millard tapes and one compiling all six shows. I realize some of my picks may be controversial (I chose Kashmir from the 21st rather than the 25th for example), but we all have our differing opinions and views. If you don't like my picks, feel free to make a playlist yourself. :P

Here's the Millard only playlist. I included Communication Breakdown in the encores and moved OTHAFA to its position in the June 22nd setlist (after the drum solo) to make the concert flow better and prevent it from losing momentum:

And here's the playlist of all six shows. For this playlist, I added It'll Be Me to the encores, and inserted That's Alright Mama from the 26th into the acoustic set:

Please note that I am a complete amateur at all of this. I used Audacity for editing and assembling each of the songs. No Quarter, and the drum and noise solos had to be split into parts as well. I didn't want to risk doing one complete video in case one of the songs triggered a copyright claim. Anyways, my goal was to try to make it sound like one glorious concert with switches to different tape sources depending on which night I chose to use for which song. Hopefully everything will stay up!

Enjoy it while you can! :)

Can I ask what program you use to make music videos? I used to use Windows Movie Maker on XP, but I'm on W10 now.

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1 hour ago, johnlennon696 said:

Can I ask what program you use to make music videos? I used to use Windows Movie Maker on XP, but I'm on W10 now.

I just used Movie Maker. I'm on W8. Is it not available on Windows 10?

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