darrin_h2000 Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Can anyone name the tune that the engineer left the click track fader up in the final mix? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woz70 Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 (edited) They never played to a click track! The very thought!!! You can hear the occasional stick click from Bonham if you listen extremely carefully in the stops in Black Dog and Nobody's Fault But Mine. I think the only time Page has admitted to needing to play to a click track was in 'Shake My Tree' from the C/P days. Edited January 20, 2013 by woz70 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrin_h2000 Posted January 20, 2013 Author Share Posted January 20, 2013 Click tracks are used to sync tape machines...and yes there was a song where it was left up...and they were used... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cube Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Immigrant Song? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrin_h2000 Posted January 20, 2013 Author Share Posted January 20, 2013 (edited) I had to edit this...I shouldnt have to drop hints here...lol. Edited January 20, 2013 by darrin_h2000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Led Dirigible Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 The Ocean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenton Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Is it Achilles Last Stand? Now, if my ears do deceive me, if you listen closely to live versions, you can or may hear (or at least I hear for that matter) a click track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrin_h2000 Posted January 20, 2013 Author Share Posted January 20, 2013 You guys will kick yourselves when someone does answer right...it is very promimnant on the track... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Led Dirigible Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Ramble On? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrin_h2000 Posted January 20, 2013 Author Share Posted January 20, 2013 Ramble On? Right on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Led Dirigible Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 (edited) Right on... I was under the impression Bonham was doing the percussion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramble_On Edited January 20, 2013 by Led Dirigible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reswati Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Where did you get that info that someone left the click track fader open? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrin_h2000 Posted January 20, 2013 Author Share Posted January 20, 2013 I was under the impression Bonham was doing the percussion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramble_On He did...but the clicking noise was the click track... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrin_h2000 Posted January 20, 2013 Author Share Posted January 20, 2013 Where did you get that info that someone left the click track fader open? Andy Johns in Home recording magazine several years back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woz70 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Click tracks are used to sync tape machines...and yes there was a song where it was left up...and they were used... Click tracks are not used to sync tape machines! You use one track on a multitrack to record a SMPTE synchronisation pulse (a not very pleasant or playable to sound) so that two machines can then be synchronised. For example to synchronise two 24-track machines you would lose one track per machine to SMPTE timecode leaving you with 46 usable tracks. Considering Led Zep II was recorded in quite a few different studios it was probably recorded on 8 or 16 track tape (24 track machines didn't really get used until the mid 70's and I think Presence was their first album to use that format) and that really would have been plenty - at the time 16 tracks was considered an incredible amount and synchronising two tape deck without physically connecting the mechanisms (so no need for a sync track) was a pipe dream.... remember The Beatles recorded the majority of their stuff on 4 tracks! I call bullshit on this one. The pitter-patter clicking noise is Bonham hitting either cardboard boxes (like on Buddy Holly's 'everyday' which has been stated as an influence on the song) or his knees and is there deliberately - Do you really think Page would have left in in otherwise?. If you want to call Bonham's percussion a 'click track' that's fine, but technically incorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrin_h2000 Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 Click tracks are not used to sync tape machines! You use one track on a multitrack to record a SMPTE synchronisation pulse (a not very pleasant or playable to sound) so that two machines can then be synchronised. For example to synchronise two 24-track machines you would lose one track per machine to SMPTE timecode leaving you with 46 usable tracks. Considering Led Zep II was recorded in quite a few different studios it was probably recorded on 8 or 16 track tape (24 track machines didn't really get used until the mid 70's and I think Presence was their first album to use that format) and that really would have been plenty - at the time 16 tracks was considered an incredible amount and synchronising two tape deck without physically connecting the mechanisms (so no need for a sync track) was a pipe dream.... remember The Beatles recorded the majority of their stuff on 4 tracks! I call bullshit on this one. The pitter-patter clicking noise is Bonham hitting either cardboard boxes (like on Buddy Holly's 'everyday' which has been stated as an influence on the song) or his knees and is there deliberately - Do you really think Page would have left in in otherwise?. If you want to call Bonham's percussion a 'click track' that's fine, but technically incorrect. LZ2 was early...2 8 track machines were syncd together...and the Beatles overdubbed until Sgt Pepper which was done on 8 track... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woz70 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) LZ2 was early...2 8 track machines were syncd together...and the Beatles overdubbed until Sgt Pepper which was done on 8 track... Sgt Pepper was recorded at Abbey Road December '66 to April '67, on 4-track. Abbey Road didn't get an 8-track machine until May '68. Some of the Sgt Pepper multitracks are available for download if you look in the right places - they are ALL 4-track. If you read 'Revolution in the head' which is an exhaustive account of the Beatles perfoming and recording history, you will also find confirmation of Sgt Pepper being recorded on Abbey Roads Studer 4-track machines. This is all information that is very easy to find, and is common knowledge. Apparently 'Ramble On' was recorded at Juggy Studios in New York, which in 1969 only had an 8-track machine. Check this link for more info: http://wnew.radio.co...studios-juggys/ If you check out this: http://www.guitars10...3-a-136014.html it shows the cover of a recent pirate release of some of the multitrack stems from led zep 2. If you look carefully you'll see that the four songs it features ALL break down to 8 tracks, which means that these four songs at least were recorded on 8-track tape - nobody was syncing multitrack machines in '69 - they were too busy trying to cram 16 tracks onto 1" tape whilst minimizing crosstalk and maintaining fidelity. Ramble On, which is conveniently included, has the drums bounced to two tracks, 3 guitar tracks, a bass track, one vocal track and a combined vocal and guitar track, a total of 8 tracks. Bring up the faders on this and you've got the whole song. If it was originally recorded on 16 track, where did the missing bits go? Where is the 'sync track'? Please demonstrate where this 'click track' is. The final nail is variation in tempo through the song. If they played to a click track, the song would have had to be at a constant tempo from start to finish (otherwise what's the point in a click track????). It is not a constant tempo throughout the song. If you listen to the clicking sound during the song you will also notice volume variations between the clicks - i.e. some are louder/quieter than others. Also the rhythm is slightly swung, rather than being straight 16th notes. If you know of a metronome from circa 1969 than can a] change tempo throughout a song, and b] change the volume of its click in a random but musical way, and c] can add swing to the click I'd be fascinated to see it. If you're going to claim things like this, at least back it up with some research or a copy of the source of the information. Edited January 21, 2013 by woz70 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woz70 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Having done a little more research, it would appear that the majority of the engineering and the entire mixdown on Led Zep 2 was done by Eddie Kramer, with Andy Johns only being mentioned as engineer on 'Thank You'. If he didn't engineer on 'Ramble On' how on earth would he know how it was recorded? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles J. White Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 A click track in the studio is not a problem in my mind, when working on an album - I hate when bands use click tracks at a live gig - it becomes to tight, and it sucks the life out of a gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishhead Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Click tracks are used to sync tape machines...and yes there was a song where it was left up...and they were used... I believe click tracks are used to give the drummer/band a "perfect time reference" so that their own metre stays consistent throughtout the recording process of the song (sometimes used live too). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reswati Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I believe click tracks are used to give the drummer/band a "perfect time reference" so that their own metre stays consistent throughtout the recording process of the song (sometimes used live too). That is correct, it works as a metronome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Knebs Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 That's not a CT on Ramble On dunno where that came from... Johns was either disputed or the author made that up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woz70 Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Eddie Kramer talks about recording LZII on 8-track in this fab interview: http://findingzoso.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/interview-with-eddie-kramer.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nat431 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Hard to imagine Bonham playing to a click track...hell, he was a human click track machine. I read somewhere that the clicking at the beginning of Ramble On was him tapping on a plastic garbage can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the chase Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I read Bonzo was just tapping on his knee... and that's what it sounds like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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