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Strider

7/17/77: Reappraising the Seattle Kingdome Show

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I've noticed that about Jimmy's demeanour at the beginning too, and does anyone know why he's wearing what looks like a turtle-neck under his dragon suit at the beginning? Maybe it had to do with his "touch of sleeping sickness"? Or maybe it was the AC in the dome because Bonzo wears a hoodie/house-coat type thing in "Bron-Yr-Aur Stomp" and has a scarf on for parts of the show as well. Any theories?

Hahaha, your video copy must be 100th generation. ;) That's no turtleneck on Jimmy...that's a scarf. And I believe Bonzo is merely wearing the tour robe that each member of the band had. You can see Jimmy and Robert wearing a similar robe in a Neal Preston photo taken at an airport during either the 1975 or 1977 tour.

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Didn't know where else to post this, but this seems like the appropriate thread to offer a few thoughts about the Kingdom Come DVD of Seattle.

- Visually speaking, the video is very good, although I'm wondering if certain parts of the show were a little too dark--like when the spotlights are down on Jimmy during White Summer/Black Mountain Side. Not dark enough where you can't see what's going on, and I suppose you can't expect visuals as good as Knebworth or Earl's Court considering the source material.

- From an auditory standpoint, I always thought the show was between a B and B+. Not the best '77 show compared to the LA shows or even Houston 5/21, but not the abomination some have made it out to be. Robert's voice definitely seems to be the weakest aspect of the performance, but it's not unlistenable.

- The last 3rd of the show seems to be where a lot of folks lose favor with this concert or a lot of the '77 shows because of the extended solos, but I never minded them--plus it's the final Over The Top/Moby Dick, so how can you not give it at least one viewing. I definitely find the drum solo to be a little more engaging when you can actually see Bonzo.

- Jimmy's solo during Stairway--dare I say, overrated. Not bad mind you, but hardly Jimmy's best as some have made it out to be.

Overall, I was pleased with Kingdom Come & I think I would agree with those who say the audio is a bit on the dry side--although, I hardly consider myself an audiophile, but I know good sound when I hear it (or don't hear it). Maybe if I ever got ahold of the Godfathers Records audio of the show, it would enhance my enjoyment of the show, like it did for Strider...

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Didn't know where else to post this, but this seems like the appropriate thread to offer a few thoughts about the Kingdom Come DVD of Seattle.

- Visually speaking, the video is very good, although I'm wondering if certain parts of the show were a little too dark--like when the spotlights are down on Jimmy during White Summer/Black Mountain Side. Not dark enough where you can't see what's going on, and I suppose you can't expect visuals as good as Knebworth or Earl's Court considering the source material.

- From an auditory standpoint, I always thought the show was between a B and B+. Not the best '77 show compared to the LA shows or even Houston 5/21, but not the abomination some have made it out to be. Robert's voice definitely seems to be the weakest aspect of the performance, but it's not unlistenable.

- The last 3rd of the show seems to be where a lot of folks lose favor with this concert or a lot of the '77 shows because of the extended solos, but I never minded them--plus it's the final Over The Top/Moby Dick, so how can you not give it at least one viewing. I definitely find the drum solo to be a little more engaging when you can actually see Bonzo.

- Jimmy's solo during Stairway--dare I say, overrated. Not bad mind you, but hardly Jimmy's best as some have made it out to be.

Overall, I was pleased with Kingdom Come & I think I would agree with those who say the audio is a bit on the dry side--although, I hardly consider myself an audiophile, but I know good sound when I hear it (or don't hear it). Maybe if I ever got ahold of the Godfathers Records audio of the show, it would enhance my enjoyment of the show, like it did for Strider...

Paul, it's not the concert that was dark but the inability of film and video of that era to properly capture concert lighting without special film speed and shutter exposure settings taken in account. If an official release of Seattle '77 came out using the master tape, it would look a lot better than the bootlegs available.

I am curious why your DVD is called "Kingdom Come"? It would make more sense for the DVD to be titled "KINGDOME Come", as it was the Seattle Kingdome where the concert was held.

And it is insulting for any reference to that lame band Kingdom Come to be linked to anything to do with the mighty Led Zeppelin.

As for the Godfather audio to Seattle '77, pm me your address Paul and I might be able to accommodate you.

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I've always dismissed this show because it looked kind of scary and I didn't really care for '77. But over the last few months I gave Eddie and Badgeholders a chance, simply I was an idiot for not coming around sooner. The band (Jimmy especially) seemed really high and played a little sloppy, but I personally enjoy the shows where they had a lot of fun and didn't try playing note to note (for instance I like Southampton '73 over TSRTS) for its laid back playing and obviously being drunk haha. Anyway 6/21 and 6/23 blew me away so much I had to listen and watch Seattle as well as download my favorite tracks which were off 'Conquering Kingdom' which I suppose is the best release of this show, and it's pretty damn good! SIBLY and TYG are my favorites from '77 and both are great here! At the moment that is my favorite performance of TYG! No Quarter is also great as usual with Jonsey. Anyway I would compare the show with Eddie (except Plants vocals were better), though something about the Eddie show never draws me back like the Seattle show and it's not the video. Personally I can't figure out why people dislike this show and this year, if 6/23/77 was professionally recorded and multitracked it would blow 7/29/73 away IMHO.

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If we could only get our hands on the master tape that was given to MTV when they made the Rockumentary - it was broadcast quality. All the boots we have are at least 3rd+ gen.

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If we could only get our hands on the master tape that was given to MTV when they made the Rockumentary - it was broadcast quality. All the boots we have are at least 3rd+ gen.

If so that's gotta be the worst 3rd gen tape ever. I would think maybe like, 7th gen. Just look at the difference between the main source (taken from EVSD's Year of the Dragon) and the low gen clip:

post-21000-0-01986900-1406865125_thumb.jpost-21000-0-54900900-1406865140_thumb.j

Edited by Sue Dounim

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If so that's gotta be the worst 3rd gen tape ever. I would think maybe like, 7th gen. Just look at the difference between the main source (taken from EVSD's Year of the Dragon) and the low gen clip:

attachicon.gifcap01.jpgattachicon.gifcap02.jpg

That low source has to come out some day!

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exactly! Can you imagine the low gen clip compared against the tape used for the MTV Rockumentary?

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I've noticed that about Jimmy's demeanour at the beginning too, and does anyone know why he's wearing what looks like a turtle-neck under his dragon suit at the beginning? Maybe it had to do with his "touch of sleeping sickness"? Or maybe it was the AC in the dome because Bonzo wears a hoodie/house-coat type thing in "Bron-Yr-Aur Stomp" and has a scarf on for parts of the show as well. Any theories?

The Dome was pretty warm that day. It was a huge space and I doubt it could have been cooled that much. Outdoors it was quite hot, uncomfortably so for those of us waiting in line. My girlfriend passed out from the heat.

Edited by Gordric Curtwin Wayte

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Boy, this Godfatherrecords' CD is something of a revelation so far. I'm still on Disc 1, but listening to No Quarter right now, this recording has me thinking Seattle is better than a B or B+ grade show. I'm not going to go so far as saying it trumps 6/23/77, or even Houston 5/21, but this Godfather compilation has me thinking Seattle is an A show.

A few things that stand out--an I'm hardly an audiophile--but Jonesy's bass definitely comes through better here than on the concert footage. Bonham's drums during No Quarter have a bit more kick as well. Btw, this has to be the 2nd best NQ after 6/23/77, in my humble opinion.

Can't wait to get through CDs 2 and 3...

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Boy, this Godfatherrecords' CD is something of a revelation so far. I'm still on Disc 1, but listening to No Quarter right now, this recording has me thinking Seattle is better than a B or B+ grade show. I'm not going to go so far as saying it trumps 6/23/77, or even Houston 5/21, but this Godfather compilation has me thinking Seattle is an A show.

A few things that stand out--an I'm hardly an audiophile--but Jonesy's bass definitely comes through better here than on the concert footage. Bonham's drums during No Quarter have a bit more kick as well. Btw, this has to be the 2nd best NQ after 6/23/77, in my humble opinion.

Can't wait to get through CDs 2 and 3...

The beginning third really is the best part of the show but I agree, it's certainly not as bad as people say, anything with Zeppelin recorded on video is a plus in my book, put on the video with the godfather cds in the background and it's really quite enjoyable

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The beginning third really is the best part of the show but I agree, it's certainly not as bad as people say, anything with Zeppelin recorded on video is a plus in my book, put on the video with the godfather cds in the background and it's really quite enjoyable

Even better...put the "Bill B." audience recording on in the background. Somebody with more time and/or patience than I should lash together a good matrix of the Godfather boot and the audience tape, it'd be awesome...arguably the definitive version of this show if it was done properly...

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Even better...put the "Bill B." audience recording on in the background. Somebody with more time and/or patience than I should lash together a good matrix of the Godfather boot and the audience tape, it'd be awesome...arguably the definitive version of this show if it was done properly...

I made a matrix of it awhile back, but it's way too rough with a ton of sync issues, so I don't think it's actually worth spreading around.

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I made a matrix of it awhile back, but it's way too rough with a ton of sync issues, so I don't think it's actually worth spreading around.

Can't be any worse than the old "Slumpy" Sleeping Sickness In Seattle matrix version (where an inferior audience source and crappier 'soundboard' version was used). I tried myself, but gave up after about three hours and numerous attempts just to get "Sick Again" in sync (and I used the "Bill B" audience and Godfather SBD). I think the main issue is that they run at slightly different speeds -and I mean the difference is miniscule but just enough to be annoying. Like I said, I don't have the time or the patience...that Steely Dan matrix I did a while back was easy, but then we're talking about digitally made audience and soundboard recordings that ran at the same speed...

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Hahaha, your video copy must be 100th generation. ;) That's no turtleneck on Jimmy...that's a scarf. And I believe Bonzo is merely wearing the tour robe that each member of the band had. You can see Jimmy and Robert wearing a similar robe in a Neal Preston photo taken at an airport during either the 1975 or 1977 tour.

Haha, it was just whatever is on YouTube, so yea probably close to 100th gen lol.

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Bumping this topic because I recently managed to acquire and upload an audience recording (the JEMS transfer of what I believe is the Bill B source) of this show and wanted to offer my thoughts on it. I agree with @Nutrocker that this presents the show in the best light possible. If you all haven't heard this, I'd recommend giving it a try. If nothing else, it's a very good atmospheric recording that really gives you a sense of being in the crowd. (NOTE: Stairway is eliminated due to copyright):

Like Strider and others here, I initially dismissed this show as being sluggish and subpar by 77 standards. It doesn't help that both the audio and video for this show are about as basic as you can get. The audio is flat, dull, dry, and has all the mistakes preserved clear as day. The video is dark, murky, and features a skeletal Page barely moving at all, further worsening the perception of the show.

But after hearing the audience recording, I was pleasantly surprised. No it's not like the show is now amazing, but it's definitely better than I previously thought. If I had to evaluate this show on a technical level, here's what I would say:

The Good

- Bonzo. He's killing it here pure and simple and is easily leading the rest of the band. I'd easily put this on the same level as his performances at the LA gigs in June.

- Ten Years Gone. As other here have already said, this is a solid rendition. Despite Plant's weakened voice, they pull through and give a very good performance of this song, probably one of the best of the tour.

- Page's Stairway solo. Despite his performance for the show generally being average/below average, he turns in an outstanding solo. Weird how a similar situation happened at Tempe, where much of his performance is awful, yet the Stairway solo is pretty decent.

- Jones. Apart from the flub in OTHAFA, he's solid as usual.

The Bad

- Plant's voice. It's not quite as bad as some make it out to be, but it's a definite step down from the LA gigs that's for sure. He must have gotten sick with a cold or something. Regardless, this is without question a mediocre performance from him by 77 standards.

- Page (in some spots). Jimmy is clearly not at 100% here and there's quite a few flubs and embarrassing moments from him throughout the show. But once again, I think he's better than what some make him out to be. He has moments like Ten Years Gone, No Quarter (in parts), and Stairway where he does a great job. I'd say he's more erratic than flat out bad.

So where would I rank the show? Well, definitely above Tempe that's for sure! :lol: I'd also rate this above the majority of the Landover shows, the Oakland gigs, and San Diego. It's definitely a major step down from the LA Forum shows, and probably below Cleveland, Fort Worth, and the NY gigs as well.

The question is: if this audience recording were all we had from this show, would it have the reputation it does?

My guess is no. For one, aside from the Millard tapes, good audience recordings from this tour are few and far between. And really, apart from Plant's voice and the occasional flub from Page, I don't detect anything out of the ordinary just going strictly by this recording.

In all honesty, the AUD source sonically sounds a lot like the 4/28 Cleveland recording to my ears. Boomy but clear with an excellent sense of atmosphere. All I can say is if I attended this show, based on what I've heard, I would have walked away more than happy. 

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