The Rest in Peace Thread

[kipper]

On 12/26/2017 at 9:08 PM, IpMan said:

No, the problem is if you want a conviction, you need to charge him with the correct crime. So, do you think he should have been tried for the attempted murder of an innocent sea lion?

The facts are, he committed manslaughter and the prosecution should have presented the case as such, not second degree murder as there was no direct intent. Then, in her closing statement, the prosecutor doubled down on her stupidity by changing her argument from second degree to first degree murder. Just think what you would have done in that circumstance. The jury had little choice but to acquit because the prosecutor fucked up big time.

Of course this asshole should have gone to jail...for manslaughter. The irony is that due to his prior record, if he would have been convicted of manslaughter he likely would have sentenced to a minimum 15 - 20 year term (the same for 2nd degree murder) anyway.

Don't blame the jury, or the system. Blame the prosecutor, the fault is 100% on her stupid-ass head.

I heard this case talked about on the radio and it said that in California second degree for murder can be charged when a person uses a gun to commit a felony and if during that felony somebody dies it becomes murder. The same as when somebody uses a gun to rob a store and something goes unplanned and a person is killed then that is murder. It was also said the jury could have ignored the murder charge and still came back with manslaughter so they why didn't they?

This thug who ignored our laws and came back many times intended to kill something or someone so he should have been found guilty. The prosecutor is not the one who came back 5 times after being deported, stole a gun from a cop's car, and then went on a shooting spree that killed an innocent young woman.

[IpMan]

8 hours ago, kipper said:

I heard this case talked about on the radio and it said that in California second degree for murder can be charged when a person uses a gun to commit a felony and if during that felony somebody dies it becomes murder. The same as when somebody uses a gun to rob a store and something goes unplanned and a person is killed then that is murder. It was also said the jury could have ignored the murder charge and still came back with manslaughter so they why didn't they?

This thug who ignored our laws and came back many times intended to kill something or someone so he should have been found guilty. The prosecutor is not the one who came back 5 times after being deported, stole a gun from a cop's car, and then went on a shooting spree that killed an innocent young woman.

Dude, you cannot keep making unproven assumptions, this is EXACTLY why the case was lost. Passion over provable facts is what killed this case.

There was no evidence he stole the gun, only that he had the gun. He did not go on a shooting spree, he discharged the gun one time, he was not pointing it at anyone, the bullet ricocheted twice and the poor woman was struck. Those are the provable facts and when you are in a court of law, and you want to win, you go with the case the evidence supports, not, never, ever, ever, with your stupid passions.

Yes, they could have come back with manslaughter, however, as the prosecutor first went for second degree murder, and then changed to first degree murder, she essentially confused the jurors (this is why I believe our system of untrained jurors is stupid as hell) which is what caused the acquittal. No one thought this guy was some innocent lamb, they just had no idea what to do based on the case presented by the prosecutor.

Finally, the simple discharge of a weapon is not a felony under California law (PC 246.3) and that was all which could be supported by the available facts so no, a charge of second degree murder was unfounded and wrong, again based on the available evidence.

This dumbass prosecutor seems to have watched South Park one too many times and tried her version of the Chewbacca Defense but as a prosecution tool instead.

 

Bottom line, if I were on that jury and once deliberations began I would have personally instructed everyone to ignore the stupid twat prosecutors whole case. Then, I would have explained how even though the prosecutor did not present a case for manslaughter, that is what the evidence pointed to and that is what should be considered. Once the jury came back with manslaughter I would have also recommended the maximum due to his habitual criminal history. You see, if you present the facts, base your case strictly on the facts, and remove all passion, innuendo, supposition, and bullshit, as a prosecutor you have a good 95% of a conviction. So, if Ms. Twat did her job properly, this dirty bastard would be in jail for likely the rest of his life instead of currently trying to sneak back into the US.

Edited December 28, 2017 by IpMan

[kipper]

1 hour ago, IpMan said:

Dude, you cannot keep making unproven assumptions, this is EXACTLY why the case was lost. Passion over provable facts is what killed this case.

There was no evidence he stole the gun, only that he had the gun. He did not go on a shooting spree, he discharged the gun one time, he was not pointing it at anyone, the bullet ricocheted twice and the poor woman was struck. Those are the provable facts and when you are in a court of law, and you want to win, you go with the case the evidence supports, not, never, ever, ever, with your stupid passions.

Yes, they could have come back with manslaughter, however, as the prosecutor first went for second degree murder, and then changed to first degree murder, she essentially confused the jurors (this is why I believe our system of untrained jurors is stupid as hell) which is what caused the acquittal. No one thought this guy was some innocent lamb, they just had no idea what to do based on the case presented by the prosecutor.

Finally, the simple discharge of a weapon is not a felony under California law (PC 246.3) and that was all which could be supported by the available facts so no, a charge of second degree murder was unfounded and wrong, again based on the available evidence.

This dumbass prosecutor seems to have watched South Park one too many times and tried her version of the Chewbacca Defense but as a prosecution tool instead.

 

Bottom line, if I were on that jury and once deliberations began I would have personally instructed everyone to ignore the stupid twat prosecutors whole case. Then, I would have explained how even though the prosecutor did not present a case for manslaughter, that is what the evidence pointed to and that is what should be considered. Once the jury came back with manslaughter I would have also recommended the maximum due to his habitual criminal history. You see, if you present the facts, base your case strictly on the facts, and remove all passion, innuendo, supposition, and bullshit, as a prosecutor you have a good 95% of a conviction. So, if Ms. Twat did her job properly, this dirty bastard would be in jail for likely the rest of his life instead of currently trying to sneak back into the US.

Im glad you would still find the man guilty of something but you are continuing to blame the prosecutor for the evil deeds this man did. This man was a problem waiting to happen. he refused to obey laws and it is a fact that the gun was stolen. He didn't buy the gun, and i don't believe somebody else stole the gun from a cops car and then just magically put it on that pier, crooks don't do that. This man was not a peaceful person, he stole a gun and then found the time and place to use it.  Shooting at sea lions my ass. He showed no concern for people or laws and he killed a innocent woman. You excused his crimes as being no violent, but entering this country illegally is a crime too and if that one thing had been enforced, or the city of San francisco had followed the federal laws then this woman would still be alive today.

[greengrass]

Rose Marie "Sally Rogers" RIP 

[IpMan]

9 hours ago, kipper said:

Im glad you would still find the man guilty of something but you are continuing to blame the prosecutor for the evil deeds this man did. This man was a problem waiting to happen. he refused to obey laws and it is a fact that the gun was stolen. He didn't buy the gun, and i don't believe somebody else stole the gun from a cops car and then just magically put it on that pier, crooks don't do that. This man was not a peaceful person, he stole a gun and then found the time and place to use it.  Shooting at sea lions my ass. He showed no concern for people or laws and he killed a innocent woman. You excused his crimes as being no violent, but entering this country illegally is a crime too and if that one thing had been enforced, or the city of San francisco had followed the federal laws then this woman would still be alive today.

I am sorry, but you are just too stupid to understand. I really tried and was patient but you have the intellectual capacity of a dust mite.

[kipper]

3 hours ago, IpMan said:

I am sorry, but you are just too stupid to understand. I really tried and was patient but you have the intellectual capacity of a dust mite.

Ipman, at least I know right from wrong. you may want to check your compass.

[IpMan]

8 hours ago, kipper said:

Ipman, at least I know right from wrong. you may want to check your compass.

Listen dummy, what part of emotion has no place in the courtroom do you fail to understand? How would you like it if you committed a crime, were put on trial, but charged with another crime you did not do? I bet your ass would be the first one screaming that you were being railroaded, telling your lawyer every chance how unfair the process was, that you were being portrayed as something you were not.

You know the problem with right & wrong? It varies widely between people and cultures and rarely has any basis in fact. You know who else believed in a strong sense of right & wrong? The Salem Puritans, the congressmen on the HUAC Committee, the Soviet Revolutionaries, The Catholic Inquisition, etc...

This is the very reason a courtroom and a trial must be evidence based ONLY. Of course this is the ideal and sometimes simply does not happen but it is the best we have and in this case it actually worked.

Remember the Central Park Jogger Rape from 1989? The one where Donald Trump called for the executions of all four men? Well, they turned out to be innocent and were later exonerated. WHOOPS!!!! You see, that's what happened when emotion trumps evidence. You get innocent (of that particular crime) people locked up or executed, meanwhile, the real perp is out on the street having one hell of a time. Where is the right and wrong in that? Where is the justice there? But I guess it makes people feel better to see what THEY perceive as a stereotypical "bad guy" get locked up. After all, we know he committed SOME crime so, even if he did not commit this particular crime, too fucking bad right? Dirty bastard deserved it.

Just remember Kipper, that sword always cuts both ways so, better be careful with that axe Eugene.

[chillumpuffer]

25 minutes ago, IpMan said:

Listen dummy, what part of emotion has no place in the courtroom do you fail to understand? How would you like it if you committed a crime, were put on trial, but charged with another crime you did not do? I bet your ass would be the first one screaming that you were being railroaded, telling your lawyer every chance how unfair the process was, that you were being portrayed as something you were not.

You know the problem with right & wrong? It varies widely between people and cultures and rarely has any basis in fact. You know who else believed in a strong sense of right & wrong? The Salem Puritans, the congressmen on the HUAC Committee, the Soviet Revolutionaries, The Catholic Inquisition, etc...

This is the very reason a courtroom and a trial must be evidence based ONLY. Of course this is the ideal and sometimes simply does not happen but it is the best we have and in this case it actually worked.

Remember the Central Park Jogger Rape from 1989? The one where Donald Trump called for the executions of all four men? Well, they turned out to be innocent and were later exonerated. WHOOPS!!!! You see, that's what happened when emotion trumps evidence. You get innocent (of that particular crime) people locked up or executed, meanwhile, the real perp is out on the street having one hell of a time. Where is the right and wrong in that? Where is the justice there? But I guess it makes people feel better to see what THEY perceive as a stereotypical "bad guy" get locked up. After all, we know he committed SOME crime so, even if he did not commit this particular crime, too fucking bad right? Dirty bastard deserved it.

Just remember Kipper, that sword always cuts both ways so, better be careful with that axe Eugene.

I have done Jury service and it is based on fact/evidence only. The amount of times it was halted by the Judge for incorrect assertions or hearsay was far too many to mention. Did I mention I like a grilled Kipper for breakfast? With a poached egg on top of course. Oh dear wrong thread again. Can't mention food or TV apparently

Edited December 29, 2017 by chillumpuffer

[Strider]

So, exactly a year to the day after we lost Debbie Reynolds, we lose another showbiz dynamo...trailblazer Rose Marie. As 3-year old Baby Rose Marie, she was a huge child star long before Shirley Temple. Veteran of vaudeville, radio, movies, Mob Joints (she knew Al Capone and Bugsy Siegel), television, and stage, she truly did it all over nine decades. Her character Sally Rogers on The Dick Van Dyke Show was groundbreaking...an unmarried career woman holding her own among the men. She made the later Mary Tyler Moore (who we lost at the beginning of 2017) and Murphy Brown shows possible. And she did it with her inimitable verve and zest.

Make sure you catch the recent Rose Marie documentary "Wait For Your Laugh", fortunately completed before her death.

R.I.P. Rose Marie. 😢

 

[Walter]

RIP activist Erica Garner

Edited December 30, 2017 by Walter

[kipper]

7 hours ago, Walter said:

RIP activist Erica Garner

I remember her, she is the one that told the white mayor of new york  city who has a black wive that just because he like black p***y does not mean he likes black people.  sad to hear she died, but I cant condone that kind of racist thinking. I never understand why some activists use race to divide us this way, but i hope she rests in peace.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/erica-garner-rep-requests-black-reporters-contact-family-article-1.3727878

Edited December 31, 2017 by kipper

[SteveAJones]

18 hours ago, kipper said:

I remember her, she is the one that told the white mayor of new york  city who has a black wive that just because he like black p***y does not mean he likes black people.  sad to hear she died, but I cant condone that kind of racist thinking. I never understand why some activists use race to divide us this way, but i hope she rests in peace.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/erica-garner-rep-requests-black-reporters-contact-family-article-1.3727878

Activist? She ain't gonna be active anymore!

Should have used a portion of her multi-million dollar settlement to get a treadmill or membership at a fitness center.

[Walter]

22 hours ago, Walter said:

RIP activist Erica Garner

 

Held weekly peaceful protest marches to the precinct where her father’s killer is still employed to the location of his murder. 

RIP

[SteveAJones]

Irony is a  350 pound, 30 times arrested cigarette trafficker Eric Garner exclaiming "I can't breath".

https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/eric-garner-chokehold-grand-jury-police/2014/12/04/id/611058/

[apantherfrommd]

10 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

Activist? She ain't gonna be active anymore!

Should have used a portion of her multi-million dollar settlement to get a treadmill or membership at a fitness center.

 Dang! 

Morale of the story - If you are guilty of a crime don't start bucking when being arrested. Go peacefully.

 

Edited January 1, 2018 by apantherfrommd

[Walter]

Didn’t know the Rest In Peace thread was a debatable instance.  Apparently it is when you don’t want people to protest the murder of their father.  Go live in Russia, if you don’t want people to protest.  Dang!  

RIP Erica Garner, activist, and loving daughter of her murdered father.

 

[SteveAJones]

6 hours ago, Walter said:

Didn’t know the Rest In Peace thread was a debatable instance.  Apparently it is when you don’t want people to protest the murder of their father.  Go live in Russia, if you don’t want people to protest.  Dang!  

People can protest till the cows come home for all I care, but a morbidly obese, unlicensed tobacco trafficker arrested THIRTY TIMES for various offenses will never garner any sympathy from me (see what I did there). The guy was a recidivist maggot in my book. 

[IpMan]

On 1/1/2018 at 7:49 AM, SteveAJones said:

People can protest till the cows come home for all I care, but a morbidly obese, unlicensed tobacco trafficker arrested THIRTY TIMES for various offenses will never garner any sympathy from me (see what I did there). The guy was a recidivist maggot in my book. 

Who quite obviously deserved death for the heinous crime of...selling cigarettes individually.

In other news...man who was busted for jaywalking for the 30th + time died while resisting arrest when police used chokehold. The chief of police and some punter from Japan were quoted as saying, "...meh, just another recidivist maggot who got what he deserved."

 

Rest in Peices kiddies

[kipper]

4 minutes ago, IpMan said:

Who quite obviously deserved death for the heinous crime of...selling cigarettes individually.

In other news...man who was busted for jaywalking for the 30th + time died while resisting arrest when police used chokehold. The chief of police and some punter from Japan were quoted as saying, "...meh, just another recidivist maggot who got what he deserved."

 

Rest in Peices kiddies

I see people resist arrest all the time, especially people who are taken off the bus for crimes they attempt on the bus and its very scary. but I see people who resist all have the same mindset that they dont have to follow rules and do what they are asked not to do. Resisting is really stupid and it always ends up in a fight and more cops coming and people being forced to the ground it is really scary but it never happens to people who just do what they are told to do.

Selling illegal cigarettes is not a major crime but it is a crime and the police get called to enforce crimes. Eric Garner died becuase he decided to fight the police and it went bad. they didnt want to kill him or they would have shot him, but he ended up choked because he was being violent. Its sad and I hope he is resting in peace, but he should not have resisted arrest. If he hadn't then this would be different. Now his daughter is dead to and I cant help but think part of what killed her was heart so filled with hate.

I hope she too rests in peace, but making other people hate too will only get more people killed and I wish people understood that.

[SteveAJones]

1 hour ago, kipper said:

Eric Garner died because he decided to fight the police and it went bad. they didnt want to kill him or they would have shot him, but he ended up choked because he was being violent.

Garner went into cardiac arrest while in the ambulance, most likely attributable to over exertion and being morbidly obese as opposed to the choke hold.  

[kipper]

12 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

Garner went into cardiac arrest while in the ambulance, most likely attributable to over exertion and being morbidly obese as opposed to the choke hold.  

thanks for the info Steve, I guess I fell for the media spin on it. But what is certain is he was resisting the police for no good reason and that part is on him.

[blindwillie127]

The great Rick Hall has passed. RIP 

https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2018/01/02/575157623/rick-hall-producer-and-songwriter-who-put-muscle-shoals-on-the-map-dead-at-85

[Strider]

Farewell Annie Laurie Starr...Gun Moll for the ages. R.I.P. Peggy Cummins. Born in Wales. Raised in Dublin.

http://variety.com/2018/film/people-news/peggy-cummins-gun-crazy-dead-dies-92-1202651015/

Edited January 3, 2018 by Strider

[IpMan]

10 hours ago, Strider said:

Farewell Annie Laurie Starr...Gun Moll for the ages. R.I.P. Peggy Cummins. Born in Wales. Raised in Dublin.

http://variety.com/2018/film/people-news/peggy-cummins-gun-crazy-dead-dies-92-1202651015/

Yep, she was one bad ass B***h.

[the chase]

Rest In Peace Producer / Engineer, the brilliant Chris Tsangarides aged 61. Chris worked with Black Sabbath Judas Priest Anvil, Lords Of The New Church to name 4 out of hundreds. You can see CT appear in This Is Anvil to witness what a consumate pro he was. 

Also Rest In Peace to original Moody Blues Flutist and 2018 Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Inductee Ray Thomas aged 76.