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Since we're generally discussing recordings as opposed to performances, I agree with others that Four Blocks in the Snow is probably the best bootleg sound-wise (unless you want to count the raw multitracks of RAH). Other good ones are the recent release of Montreux 1970 that includes that new soundboard source (EVSD's "The Great Beast 666 - Standard Edition"), the recent matrix of 3/21/75, Godfather's "The American Return" matrix of 3/11/75, Southampton (of course), and LTTE (I agree with others that the Winston Remaster of this is probably the best audience recording of the band in terms of sound quality and atmosphere), to name just a few.

I also happen to love tapes like 4/28/77 where even though the sound quality is not the best, it's so atmospheric and brutal-sounding. You really get a sense of how LOUD it was in person.

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7 hours ago, ZepHead315 said:

Since we're generally discussing recordings as opposed to performances, I agree with others that Four Blocks in the Snow is probably the best bootleg sound-wise (unless you want to count the raw multitracks of RAH). Other good ones are the recent release of Montreux 1970 that includes that new soundboard source (EVSD's "The Great Beast 666 - Standard Edition"), the recent matrix of 3/21/75, Godfather's "The American Return" matrix of 3/11/75, Southampton (of course), and LTTE (I agree with others that the Winston Remaster of this is probably the best audience recording of the band in terms of sound quality and atmosphere), to name just a few.

I also happen to love tapes like 4/28/77 where even though the sound quality is not the best, it's so atmospheric and brutal-sounding. You really get a sense of how LOUD it was in person.

RAH 70 is the best but it's basically officially released so I don't count that show. The soundboard / multi track fragment from Long Beach 72 is my favorite, sonically. With audience tapes, I have several favs, of course Millard recs, but I think 2/12/75 AUD source is actually better than Eddie (ok, here it comes) ...it sounds a bit cleaner and more distinct, though perhaps not as atmospheric as Eddie . Copenhagen 79, Baton Rouge 75 , Bonzos Bday, Munich 73, Blueberry Hill stereo source 5. Then there's 9/23/71 ...the partial 7th source which is only the first third of the show. That may be my fav! Too hard to choose. 

Edited by porgie66

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5 hours ago, porgie66 said:

 I think 2/12/75 AUD source is actually better than Eddie (ok, here it comes) ...it sounds a bit cleaner and more distinct

Every single version of the best AUD source I heard, suffers from wow and flutter. Particularly noticeable in quiet numbers like the Rain Song. 

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Listening to 6/9/72 Charlotte right now.  HIGHLY underrated recording.  And the performance is just blistering.  Not as crazy as 6/14-15 or 6/19 but the playing is impeccable.  And the recording itself is fantastic.

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38 minutes ago, LedElvis75 said:

Listening to 6/9/72 Charlotte right now.  HIGHLY underrated recording.  And the performance is just blistering.  Not as crazy as 6/14-15 or 6/19 but the playing is impeccable.  And the recording itself is fantastic.

Agreed! That's an often listened to show for me. Early versions ran slow but speed corrected , that is a bitchin' show!!  I don't have a low gen to compare but TDOLZ version sounds as good or better than any other release I've heard, it just needs to be sped up quite a bit. I had EVs latest low priced release and it was at correct speed but sounded like a much higher gen tape or poor transfer. Dull and hissy. There is a no label cdr release that sounds brilliant, bright , clear, no noise reduction or heavy EQ. 

Edited by porgie66

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34 minutes ago, porgie66 said:

Agreed! That's an often listened to show for me. Early versions ran slow but speed corrected , that is a bitchin' show!!  I don't have a low gen to compare but TDOLZ version sounds as good or better than any other release I've heard, it just needs to be sped up quite a bit. I had EVs latest low priced release and it was at correct speed but sounded like a much higher gen tape or poor transfer. Dull and hissy. There is a no label cdr release that sounds brilliant, bright , clear, no noise reduction or heavy EQ. 

I've got the DADGAD remaster playing right now.  It is fantastic. Celebration Day is killer.  Makes me wish it was a regular part of that '72 set.

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4 hours ago, duckman said:

Every single version of the best AUD source I heard, suffers from wow and flutter. Particularly noticeable in quiet numbers like the Rain Song. 

Yep, that's true. I forgot about that...been a while since I listened to that tape. Still a very enjoyable listen to me.

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10 hours ago, porgie66 said:

Then there's 9/23/71 ...the partial 7th source which is only the first third of the show.

I thought the remainder of this source was recently uncovered and released on the unlabeled "Flying Rock Carnival 1971 Complete"? The general consensus over at Royal Orleans is that this bootleg uses the same 7th source for the whole of the show (minus a couple patches), only it seems to have undergone some extensive EQ and noise reduction for the latter two thirds. I agree with you on the sound of that source. I MUCH prefer it over the sound of the main source for 9/29. Plus (potentially unpopular opinion time), I think the 9/23 show is a better performance (at least for the first third) than 9/29. It's definitely underappreciated, at least among casual bootleg collectors imo.

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2 hours ago, ZepHead315 said:

I thought the remainder of this source was recently uncovered and released on the unlabeled "Flying Rock Carnival 1971 Complete"? The general consensus over at Royal Orleans is that this bootleg uses the same 7th source for the whole of the show (minus a couple patches), only it seems to have undergone some extensive EQ and noise reduction for the latter two thirds. I agree with you on the sound of that source. I MUCH prefer it over the sound of the main source for 9/29. Plus (potentially unpopular opinion time), I think the 9/23 show is a better performance (at least for the first third) than 9/29. It's definitely underappreciated, at least among casual bootleg collectors imo.

It's hard to believe that the remainder of that show that Empress Valley released on Flying Rock Carnival is from the same 7th source. The story was the master tapes were lost in a fire, after an earthquake in Kobe in 1995. Someone who is really knowledgeable about tape sources can comment on this in detail but to me it sounds like they took another source and tweaked it as much as possible to try to sound close to the first fragment. That old 7th source tape which was released on Watchtower as Rock Carnival , sounds way more natural and clean than the songs after Stairway on the EV's Flying Rock Carnival. 

Edited by porgie66

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2 hours ago, ZepHead315 said:

I thought the remainder of this source was recently uncovered and released on the unlabeled "Flying Rock Carnival 1971 Complete"? The general consensus over at Royal Orleans is that this bootleg uses the same 7th source for the whole of the show (minus a couple patches), only it seems to have undergone some extensive EQ and noise reduction for the latter two thirds. I agree with you on the sound of that source. I MUCH prefer it over the sound of the main source for 9/29. Plus (potentially unpopular opinion time), I think the 9/23 show is a better performance (at least for the first third) than 9/29. It's definitely underappreciated, at least among casual bootleg collectors imo.

Listen to the difference between Heartbreaker and WIAWSNB.   Heartbreaker sounds natural, dynamic and your get a sense of space, you can hear the audience when the music is low level.  WIAWSNB sounds dull, and noise reduced, , volume jacked up but none of the ambiance of the original 7th source tape. Maybe it is a transfer of the "newly found" remainder of the 7th source tape but in that case it's a shit transfer or the tape degraded, due to damage or time. Those first 7 songs of the 7th source are outstanding. Anyone know what's the deal with this??  For the full show I prefer EV's First Attack Of The Rising Sun (source 5) or Wendy's Meet The Led Zeppelin. 

 

 

 

Edited by porgie66

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16 hours ago, porgie66 said:

Listen to the difference between Heartbreaker and WIAWSNB.   Heartbreaker sounds natural, dynamic and your get a sense of space, you can hear the audience when the music is low level.  WIAWSNB sounds dull, and noise reduced, , volume jacked up but none of the ambiance of the original 7th source tape. Maybe it is a transfer of the "newly found" remainder of the 7th source tape but in that case it's a shit transfer or the tape degraded, due to damage or time. Those first 7 songs of the 7th source are outstanding. Anyone know what's the deal with this??  For the full show I prefer EV's First Attack Of The Rising Sun (source 5) or Wendy's Meet The Led Zeppelin. 

 

 

 

Why am I thinking the remainder of it was ruined/destroyed in a warehouse fire???  Maybe I'm just imagining that???!! Or thinking of a different tape and show altogether...

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23 minutes ago, LedElvis75 said:

Why am I thinking the remainder of it was ruined/destroyed in a warehouse fire???  Maybe I'm just imagining that???!! Or thinking of a different tape and show altogether...

See my earlier post. Yes, that was the story . Someone here with more specific knowledge could shed light on the discovery of the remainder of the tape. Who made the claim that this was the remainder of the 7th source? EV? Was it a dub of the master that was hoarded? 

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40 minutes ago, porgie66 said:

See my earlier post. Yes, that was the story . Someone here with more specific knowledge could shed light on the discovery of the remainder of the tape. Who made the claim that this was the remainder of the 7th source? EV? Was it a dub of the master that was hoarded? 

Oops-completely missed that post.

My bad:run:

 

Sounds like an entirely different (tweaked) source to me.

Edited by LedElvis75

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2 hours ago, LedElvis75 said:

Oops-completely missed that post.

My bad:run:

 

Sounds like an entirely different (tweaked) source to me.

Doesn't it??!!  It's possible it's a dub of the same source , only degraded over the years so they had to do a lot of enhancement and noise reduction. I dunno. The shit sounds very different to me. 

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On 21.9.2017 at 9:35 PM, porgie66 said:

It's hard to believe that the remainder of that show that Empress Valley released on Flying Rock Carnival is from the same 7th source. The story was the master tapes were lost in a fire, after an earthquake in Kobe in 1995. Someone who is really knowledgeable about tape sources can comment on this in detail but to me it sounds like they took another source and tweaked it as much as possible to try to sound close to the first fragment. That old 7th source tape which was released on Watchtower as Rock Carnival , sounds way more natural and clean than the songs after Stairway on the EV's Flying Rock Carnival. 

Twenty years ago I got my first Japan 71 bootlegs: Reflections From A Dream remastered (9/23) on TDOLZ & Smoke Gets In Your Eyes (9/29) on Mud Dogs. I was totally blown away by these superb performances & I am obsessed with the tour of Japan 71 ever since. For 9/23 I`ve got the the above mentioned Reflections..., Tokyo Tapes on EV,  First Attack of the Rising...on EV, Rock Carnival Not on Label & Rock Carnival on EV. I agree with you that the first third of the 7th source is incredible & sadly the sound declines afterwards. Also, the sound of sources 2,4, & 5 seem to weaken after the acoustic set. To my ears all the CDs that I know are heavily equalized, noise reduced and polished. For sound improvement the sky is the limit: I`d really love to hear Eat A Peach & Graf Zeppelin releases of 9/23- 9/29, as both of them are known for excellent & natural sounding releases!!! By the way, according to Louis Rey`s fantastic book "Live" the last song of 9/23 was Thank You, can anyone confirm this?
 
 
 

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1 hour ago, Autumn Moon said:
Twenty years ago I got my first Japan 71 bootlegs: Reflections From A Dream remastered (9/23) on TDOLZ & Smoke Gets In Your Eyes (9/29) on Mud Dogs. I was totally blown away by these superb performances & I am obsessed with the tour of Japan 71 ever since. For 9/23 I`ve got the the above mentioned Reflections..., Tokyo Tapes on EV,  First Attack of the Rising...on EV, Rock Carnival Not on Label & Rock Carnival on EV. I agree with you that the first third of the 7th source is incredible & sadly the sound declines afterwards. Also, the sound of sources 2,4, & 5 seem to weaken after the acoustic set. To my ears all the CDs that I know are heavily equalized, noise reduced and polished. For sound improvement the sky is the limit: I`d really love to hear Eat A Peach & Graf Zeppelin releases of 9/23- 9/29, as both of them are known for excellent & natural sounding releases!!! By the way, according to Louis Rey`s fantastic book "Live" the last song of 9/23 was Thank You, can anyone confirm this?
 
 
 

Thank You was rumored for a long time to have been played at 9/23, but it's been pretty much debunked. None of the circulating 13+(!) sources features it. There were pictures making the rounds that showed the band playing the instruments they usually played for this song (Page on Les Paul, Jones on organ), but it's been determined that they're from the Whole Lotta Love medley, specifically the Tobacco Road portion. Further discussion can be found here: http://www.royal-orleans.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=27872

I didn't even really realize until Porgie's analysis just how different the Rock Carnival source sounds after the first third. I knew the sound quality deteriorated a bit, but man someone EQ'd and noise reduced the hell out of it! One thing I'd really love to hear is an audience source for 9/29 that sounds as good as source 7 or source 5 from 9/23. The "soundboard" source is hard to listen to what with it being so unbalanced and flat sounding.

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4 hours ago, ZepHead315 said:

 

I didn't even really realize until Porgie's analysis just how different the Rock Carnival source sounds after the first third. I knew the sound quality deteriorated a bit, but man someone EQ'd and noise reduced the hell out of it! One thing I'd really love to hear is an audience source for 9/29 that sounds as good as source 7 or source 5 from 9/23. The "soundboard" source is hard to listen to what with it being so unbalanced and flat sounding.

I agree with you completely. Hearing the whole 9/29 show form a more balanced audience perspective would be awesome. 

Thanks for noticing the same disparity on EVs Rock Carnival. I assume the more recently discovered remainder of source 7 must've degraded , hence all the EQ and NR. What seems odd is they used the original source 7 for the first disc. I presume because it still reigns as the best tape for that night . 

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On 9.10.2017 at 0:51 AM, ZepHead315 said:

Thank You was rumored for a long time to have been played at 9/23, but it's been pretty much debunked. None of the circulating 13+(!) sources features it. There were pictures making the rounds that showed the band playing the instruments they usually played for this song (Page on Les Paul, Jones on organ), but it's been determined that they're from the Whole Lotta Love medley, specifically the Tobacco Road portion. Further discussion can be found here: http://www.royal-orleans.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=27872

I didn't even really realize until Porgie's analysis just how different the Rock Carnival source sounds after the first third. I knew the sound quality deteriorated a bit, but man someone EQ'd and noise reduced the hell out of it! One thing I'd really love to hear is an audience source for 9/29 that sounds as good as source 7 or source 5 from 9/23. The "soundboard" source is hard to listen to what with it being so unbalanced and flat sounding.

Thanks for your information about the Thank You mistery (a mystery, at least for me). And yes, an excellent audience source for 9/29 would be perfectly wonderful. Have you heard Wendy`s 2016 release "Live In Japan !971 929" yet? IMO the best SB so far plus a decent audience source. And this SB  release is anything but flat, if we refer "flat" to horrible sounding 1973 SBs.

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Winston did 929. Arigatou Osaka.

From the notes contained within it....

Remaster Notes: Hardest show I ever worked on. Used the best possible audio for each song.
Each of the Stage/SBD sources ran at different Sound/Pitch/Speed. It was like putting a jigsaw puzzle together, a BIG THANK YOU to Blackmikito, He really helped me get it right!
Sound: This is more of a Restoration than a Remaster, So I decided to try and give each source tonal balance and clarity.
It seemed the less I did the better it sounded. If your looking for a beefed up in your face version this isn't it, I would recommend Wendy's Fatally Wanderer instead.
Also would like to thank Pernod for his help early on.
So.. Is it Perfect? NOPE. But its the best I could do.

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1 hour ago, Autumn Moon said:

Thanks for your information about the Thank You mistery (a mystery, at least for me). And yes, an excellent audience source for 9/29 would be perfectly wonderful. Have you heard Wendy`s 2016 release "Live In Japan !971 929" yet? IMO the best SB so far plus a decent audience source. And this SB  release is anything but flat, if we refer "flat" to horrible sounding 1973 SBs.

Are you referring to this below? 

45 minutes ago, rm2551 said:

Winston did 929. Arigatou Osaka.

From the notes contained within it....

Remaster Notes: Hardest show I ever worked on. Used the best possible audio for each song.
Each of the Stage/SBD sources ran at different Sound/Pitch/Speed. It was like putting a jigsaw puzzle together, a BIG THANK YOU to Blackmikito, He really helped me get it right!
Sound: This is more of a Restoration than a Remaster, So I decided to try and give each source tonal balance and clarity.
It seemed the less I did the better it sounded. If your looking for a beefed up in your face version this isn't it, I would recommend Wendy's Fatally Wanderer instead.
Also would like to thank Pernod for his help early on.
So.. Is it Perfect? NOPE. But its the best I could do.

If so, I agree that it's the best sounding version of the show yet. When I say "flat", I mean that I don't get a sense of space from that source, at least during loud moments. There's very little echo and, while you can clearly hear the crowd between songs, you don't really get a sense that they're playing in a concert hall. Add to that Plant being buried at times, Bonzo's cymbals having a distinct "compressed" sound that sometimes overloads the mix, and a bizarre lack of top end and it's honestly hard to listen to at times. It's a shame because performance-wise, this show is maybe the best show of 71 and in the top 5 best Zeppelin shows ever. IMO if an audience source surfaced that sounded as good as the first third of the Rock Carnival source, it would instantly wipe the floor with the current main source for this show.

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On 12.10.2017 at 12:23 AM, ZepHead315 said:

Are you referring to this below? 

If so, I agree that it's the best sounding version of the show yet. When I say "flat", I mean that I don't get a sense of space from that source, at least during loud moments. There's very little echo and, while you can clearly hear the crowd between songs, you don't really get a sense that they're playing in a concert hall. Add to that Plant being buried at times, Bonzo's cymbals having a distinct "compressed" sound that sometimes overloads the mix, and a bizarre lack of top end and it's honestly hard to listen to at times. It's a shame because performance-wise, this show is maybe the best show of 71 and in the top 5 best Zeppelin shows ever. IMO if an audience source surfaced that sounded as good as the first third of the Rock Carnival source, it would instantly wipe the floor with the current main source for this show.

No, I like the Winston remaster 929 Arigatou Osaka, but I was referring to Wendy`s "Live In Japan 1971 929", which I think is second to none. I have read your criticism about the sound of the Winston remaster & recommend the Wendy release, IMO a really considerable improvement. Try it, you won`t be disappointed.

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For a band who's musical roots were deeply embedded in Chicago blues, I am surprised that Zeppelin had Chicago scheduled as an early tour stop both in 1975 and 1977 before they were REALLY warmed up performance-wise, especially when they were playing multiple nights there on both of those tours.  I am also surprised that no good soundboards or audience tapes seem to exist for those particular shows.  If there are some out there, could someone be kind enough to mention them here ?  Thanks in advance.  Being from Milwaukee, I would like to hear at least a couple of those Chicago shows in halfway decent sound quality.  My ears are attuned to bootlegs, but I would just prefer to hear something from those Chicago stops that doesn't sound like it's sloshed in mud.

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