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02 related question for the older fans that were'nt there


Honeydripper

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I understand your point....and I though of all that...keep in mind, I do have a couple hundred Zep shows at my disposal ;) ,and i know all about their storied stage past. But IMO this is a different band froma different era. Age is the difference. To me ears it's P&P w/ balls. Take JPJ and Jason out of the picture and you have a semi decent 98 show. I was moved more by the spectacle of the thing than the actual performance. I don't care how many shows they do (if any at all) in 2008-9...whenever.....it's will never be what it once was. Not that I expect it to ever be. Sure it's great....but many are going on how this was one of their best shows ever etc.... I say no where close! I just wanted to see if any other of the older fans agreed or not.

I'm not sure that age is the difference. I think we'd have to have a few more shows before we could know that - I think of Cream's 2005 reunion, which I believe sounded extraordinary, in some ways not as good as the original incarnation at all but in some ways much better. Age meant that they were not able to play for as long, and were not tempted to experiment too much; but it also meant that they were tighter and more concise as musicians, with a deeper understanding of their craft. I wonder if Zeppelin on tour (even a short tour) would be the same.

The thing about the O2 gig was that it was a unique idea - never before in the band's history, to my knowledge, had they elected to play one show that would draw from their entire catalogue, would keep improv to a minimum, and would exist only as a kind of tribute to the past (in this case, not the past of the band, but the past of Ahmet Ertegun, if that makes sense.) If they'd done something like that in the seventies, we could compare. But they didn't. We can't judge them on the basis of what they did not set out to do. (Although we can, of course, regret that they didn't set out to do something different - and debate what that means. Was Jimmy afraid to improvise? Could Jason not handle certain songs that otherwise would have been played? Etc.)

I find your comment about "taking JPJ and Jason out of the equation" interesting. What are the implications of that idea? Suppose that half the songs on Physical Graffiti had been recorded not be Zep but by the honeydrippers - in other words, listen to those songs, but take JPJ and Bonzo out of the equation. Their presence on certain on certain tracks - Down By the Seaside, for instance - is minimal enough that it's not too much of a stretch to imagine it. Would we then hear those songs as something less than we do now? What if P&P hadn't gotten around to recording Stairway until the No Quarter days, when they decided to trot it out as album filler? One can ask these questions endlessly, and I'm not sure what the answers are. But I think that one can say of any gig - even the greatest Zeppelin concert ever played - "take JPJ and Bonham out of the equation, and it doesn't sound nearly as good." It only highlights the degree to which Zeppelin were a collaborative effort, greater than the sum of their parts.

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I really need to get to bed, but there's one other point I want to bring up before I do so.

I think the band knew, back in the day, when they went on stage, that they might create something beautiful and majestic, but that there was also a chance that they might flub it all and come across badly. And they knew that if they flubbed it they could always make it up again the next night (as they usually did). This time around, there was no next night. This was it. They wanted to be perfect, for the sake of the occasion. And so they had to be careful - to not take too many risks - because if something went wrong there was no revising the record. I think we have to remember that when we listen to the O2 gig - and then we can marvel at how well they pulled it off, given that restriction.

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First.I don't have the time or inclination to retort to your whole post because I disagree with a lot of it.

But I will say this.If you try to isolate this one performance I would put it right up there with the best.

I mean I only saw some youtube clips and that band sent chills up my spine,with the intro of "In My Time Of Dying" alone.

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After reading the posts, I must say that we have to remember that 02 was a reunion and even though rehearsed.... a reunion none the less. To me the show was great and a real credit to the band. As for generating new fans.... hard to say. I do think that the show has justified our old war stories and we should remember that Zep has alway's been generating curiosity amoung younger and older listeners. What this show proved to me is that they are more than capable of putting out new material that has some real passion attatched to it. Personally I hope that they do continue and we can compare notes . Don't forget that they were alway's gaining and losing fans even in their heyday. That's LED ZEPPELIN.... not afraid . This is the reason we talk about certain tours . We all have our favorite moments.... Let it continue

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Question: Would you have spent decades of your life dedicated to loving this band based only on the 02 performance??

My original love of Led Zep didn't come from any single event, come to think it nor has my love of anything. I've been intrigued by many things on first glance, reading, listening or viewing but never been in a situation where I was prepared to devote decades of my life to it. Even my marriage wasn't a "this is the girl I'm going to marry and spend the rest of my life with." Sure she intrigued me and I was attracted to her but to be honest and all romantic desires and wishes to the contrary it wasn't a thunderbolt to the heart and a certainty this was 'the one and only who'd love me only.'

My first reading of Dylan Thomas's "Under Milkwood" did nothing for me. It wasn't until I heard the radio broadcast with Anthony Hopkins that the play resonated in me. My first foray into opera doomed and it was only an urging by my future wife and her love of it that I ventured back.

If, and it's a big if, I was able to make every Led Zep date on any future tour and I had enough to base my opinions on then I could speak honestly about it. But to be honest anyway I came to Led Zep through the blues in much the same way I came at the Doors through Jim Morrisons poetry. Decades of my life has been devoted to this band based on what they have given over those decades. Considering Travelling Riverside Blues is one of my all time favourite Zep arrangements and that didn't appear to much later plus I find it difficult to attend concerts in my condition maybe I'm in no position to really offer any sound opinion on the matter.

One thing I do believe however, is the souls that had the ability to give us something like Stairway would have surely had their hearts in two places the night of O2 and I for one would be prepared to forgive them for the distractions of a friend missing from the stage and a second missing from the wings. Damn their age, damn their past glories and damn instant gratification today's world not only expects but demands. They stood, followed their dream and laid their creativity out on the line to be judged. Those who have never done so have no understanding of what that actually entails. How many armchair critics can boast of having done the same...

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I grew up with Zeppelin, when they were still around, at a very young age.

I find all this discussion more about the fans' posting here not so much about how Zeppelin at 02 were not the same but how these posters have to deal with their own aging.

Look, you will always try to find that feeling of your first love as a teenager but you will never get that feeling quite the same again, & you shouldn't. It's progression. It becomes something else.

I thought Zeppelin at 02 were great. I'm glad they didn't go off meandering into some 30 minute version of "D&C". I dreaded hearing the opening notes of "D&C" & was thinking to myself "Please don't embaress yourselves thinking it's 1973". They didn't. They kept the best elements of the live versions of the song & kept my intrest in UNDER 12 MINUTES THANK GOODNESS. I'd rather have a great orgasm in that time then have some spectacular to boring moments of sex in a half hour. They were concise, focused, & delivered... & still passionate.

Someone mentioned the Cream reunion earlier, same thing. I knew they weren't going to do a blazing version off "Crossroads" from 68', & why should they have? I got the record. What they did do was a gorgeous version off the obscure "We're Going Wrong" of which they would never have had the taste & discipline to pull off in their heyday. Somethings go with age & some things get better with age.

Which leads me to say I have never, NEVER, heard Zep in their heyday do a better version of "Kashmir" than at the 02. Fantastic! Not only was I shocked but I was just floored! And "For Your Life" & "In My Time Of Dying"... simply amazing.

I know they were well rehearsed but look at the lackluster reunions of the past. People may think they lacked spontanaity but that doesn't mean they lacked passion. They wanted this gig bad, you can taste it. That's we're I hear the passion, even more so than some boot from 75' 0r 77'.

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I've seen the 02 concert rated by some attendees to be within Led Zeppelin's all-time top ten concerts, and some have gone so far as to rate it as Zep's best ever. Can't say I'm surprised by their stunning displays of revisionism, just disappointed. Their simply nuts.

Not to diminish the accomplishment, but I can think of at least 20 performances which were far better.

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They were so HIGH from the experience, just everything surrounding it...that I have to believe some of them and their feelings. Maybe in retrospect they temper there exhuberance....but for the time being...I can imagine their zeal...if a bit much.

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I've seen the 02 concert rated by some attendees to be within Led Zeppelin's all-time top ten concerts, and some have gone so far as to rate it as Zep's best ever. Can't say I'm surprised by their stunning displays of revisionism, just disappointed. Their simply nuts.

Not to diminish the accomplishment, but I can think of at least 20 performances which were far better.

20?? I have more than 20 from 73 alone I love more.

Don't get me wrong folks..again, I'm not bashing 02....and I've been listening the hell out of it...and it's true, we do get instant gratification..also in the relm of the fact that within 3 weeks I had an audience recording which rivals the best aud's taped during Zep's entire run....Millard included.

And onother reason I carefully worded the thread for older folks who were not there........the ones who are'nt unaware of the "you had to be there" factor.....just like people in 77 walked out of the Seattle show thinking they just saw/heard the best concert ever.......listen to it now. The 02 was MUCH better than that....but nonetheless there is still the live visual spectacle factor involved. I felt the same walking out of all the post Zep Page shows....many of which I have either great aud or sbd and or vid of......and I never listen/watch them. It tends to diminish the personal feeling I got when I was there.........but on the other hand, if I were at a LA 72 show....and I listened to it today.....it would still floor me...and does to this day. I'm sorry, but 02 has already made it's way into the "Had to be there" category for me. I give all the respect in the world to the guys for pulling it off...it had to be scarier for them than just about any show they've ever done and the pressure of the media hype and lottery frenzy had to be overwhelming. They put on a great show...worth every last penny for every far away traveler in the house......but it's still an older less edgy less risk taking band......the one that has kept me still yearning for more 30 yrs later. If it were'nt for boots,...and the fact that more 27+ yr old never before heard of shows are still emerging from the shadows to this day I'd probably have lost the deep deep devotion I have to this band. The studio material is incredible enough, but also if i put into perspective.....that had I had 200+ 2-3 hr long Beatles concerts at my disposal, I'd still be more of a Beatles fan than a Zep fan. They were my first true musical love...and I love them still, but they are more limited in material than Zep......50 cd's of 40 takes of 1 song is not what I call enjoyable listening. It's interesting, but not something I'd put on to groove to while I have company over.

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Well, I think you kind of made my point: You have been "yearning" for this the past 30 years & it wasn't what you wanted it to be. What is after 30 years? I can walk into my old High School tomorrow, & despite the great times I had there, it's obviously not going to be the same. You can physically go home but that's about it.

I wasn't at the show. I got an audio copy of the show last week without seeing any footage, so I went into it with fresh ears & my eyes not giving myself a bias. Once again, I thought they were great, & guess what: it was only ONE, I repeat, ONE show it front of an audience. I think peoples' expectation on this thread are bit too much & quite frankly overly romanticized about the past. I've never seen ONE show so overly dissected... you would think it was the Zapruder/JFK film.

John Bonham died 27 years ago. Jimmy Page is 63 with midlength white hair. He will never wear a white poppy/dragon costume bare-chested on stage again & if he did he'd look like a fool. Robert Plant is 59 & looks like a California raisin. He hasn't hit those notes "properly" live since 72'.... 35 years ago. JPJ is an exception, he's pretty much the same as he always was... thus he's the one who really made a deal with the devil. Jason Bonham is not John Bonham & he never will be... he's Jason Bonham.

So once again those being "nitpicky": True, those who were at the show are probably on cloud9 & will remain there for sometime after experiencing something that they could only dream of... being at a Zeppelin show. They will romanticize & I probably would to. But the same applies in reverse too.... those stuck in the past romanticize too & I wasn't at those old shows either & not all is what the myth lives up to... the boots are proof of that. I do have ears & the majority of the old boots are uneven at best.

Led Zeppelin played a show in 2007 & it went off great. What's not to be happy about? Some people will never be fully pleased for some reason. The best piece of advice I ever got was "Don't be unhappy for what you don't have, but be thankful for what you do have". Led Zeppelin played in 2007 & I wasn't even there... but I'm thankful that they did. I have that.

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Take the show for what it was. I wasn't there but from what i've seen and heard it seems to me that they are very much alive and kicking. Personally I hope this is just the beginning of something new and fresh. Not saying this is the best ever show. But it's the best show i've seen in a long time. Maybe that say's something about me !!!!!

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I haven't read your posts to know...but DO you know of the extensive availability of Zep shows ? There are literally hundreds to choose from and other than those who 'say' this O2 show was the best ever....There's so many, many great shows..especially early on...that could be picked from.

There's already several lists here with people's opinion's on best shows throughout their career. If you ARE 'out of the loop' I suggest you search these out. Of the hundreds of shows you CAN hear...there are a bunch even you MAY pick...

You question just struck me odd...like you haven't heard the multitude of shows Steve may pick from....

...sorry if I barged in.

I've heard plenty. Was just curious to hear his personal opinion. And yours too. As i've stated I have a thing for the 71 tour , others have their opinions. All are welcome. Maybe I should have checked other posts, but we're here now

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I'd hoped you wouldn't consider my post an intrusion or perceived as a condescending attitude...It just seemed a question like that would come from someone who hadn't heard many shows. There are ALOT of people here who've only heard the 'standard' releases.....and I didn't mean it as a 'butt in'...I think you realize that with your return post....there's no bitterness in your comeback...

I have a thing for the '71 tour as well, that being the second and last time I saw Led Zeppelin. If you want my picks ... I'm very biased and truly like so many from their earlier years better than the O2 or show's in their latter half.

Here's just a few of my faves...even though I know I've mentioned some before, here or the other board...

4-24-69

4-27-69

6-27-69

7-6-69

7-21-69

8-31-69

10-10-69

1-9-70

3-7-70

9-6-70

9-19-70 (evening show)

5-3-71

9-9-71

9-14-71

9-29-71

11-25-71

2-19-72

6-11-72

6-25-72

6-28-72

10-2-72

I'll stop....these are just a few for me...

Would have to agree. All better than 02. The footage of 02 helps. Imagine if there had been footage to go with the above list.
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For those of us that have had a neverending thirst for live Zep for decades.....and have collected/heard countless recordings of Zeppelin in their prime....even finding brilliance on an off night........

After many listens of the 02 gig....from multiple sources.....I asked myself this question.

let's say you erase your memory of all the live Zep you have ever heard......including the official releases.....and the only live Zep you have ever heard was the 02 show.

Question: Would you have spent decades of your life dedicated to loving this band based only on the 02 performance?? I'm starting to lean towards no. :(

I know it's not popular right now to say this....and I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but IMO the 02 show was a "you had to be there" moment. I myself would have loved to have been there. But I'm not going to back down to anybody that says that show is even remotely close to a 70's show(not that I ever expected it to be) and I know that alot of the glorification of it has to do with the impact of 27 yrs off. To me the only thing worth talking about is the difference JPJ and Jason on a better sounding kit than his past kits made. This gig was like a 98 P&P show w/ BALLS. But the things that drew me to love live Led Zeppelin were no where to be found. The improvs, the lightning playing by Page, the interaction w/ Plant-Page.......it just seemed too reheased and subdued. No one can expect these old dudes to recreate what they did in their 20's....and the times have definitely changed......but to say they are much more than a shell of their former self would be pushing it IMO. The spectacle of the circumstances of the whole 02 show, the cool video screen treatment, the lighting, the screaming fans all leads to quite an exiting night.....but take that away and let the music do the talking, taking yourself away from the thoughts of what it must have been like to have witnessed it...just focusing on the musical performance itself......and halfway through, I find myself digging out a Japan 71 boot to go back to the reason why I've loved this band for so long.

What say you??

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What do you think? The best person to ask would be Brspled, she was at both shows (you'll note she is the YouTube poster of the second video) . What did you think, Celia? :)

Sam, I can't really compare both concerts, they were unique, each one of them.

On both of them I felt that it was as close as I'd be of really witnessing a LZ concert....but in both moments I was also aware that they were not THE Led Zeppelin. The P/P concert was the 100th concert they made on that tour...I'd say Jimmy, Robert, as well as Michael Lee and Charlie Jones had, at the time, worked out some of the weak points that have possibly happened by then. They were amazing, the concert was fantastic, but they weren't Led Zeppelin.

The O2 concert was a kind of dream-come-true event....but no matter how good they played, it was the first and only concert they made, so they didn't have the chance to real "oil the engine"....they were amazing, to be completely honest, better than I have expected. I was taken by the moment, and I haven't heard any boot on the concert so far...but I can say they were fabulous.

Yet they were not Led Zeppelin.

Well, I'm not an expert on boots, sooooooooooo far from it, the live recordings weren't what kept my love for the band alive for so many years. I wouldn't ever be able to judge a band, no matter how good they were on the studio, based on a live concert. Even Led Zeppelin had really bad moments back on their heyday.

All I can say is that those two concerts you posted the links of, well, they were fantastic.

And I love them for sentimental reasons.

B)

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Just out of curiosity.... What are your favorite shows ?

These are SOME of my favorite Led Zeppelin concerts:

San Francisco 4/24-27 1969

Texas International Pop Festival 8/31 1969

Montreux, Switzerland 3/7 1970

Inglewood 9/4 1970

Tokyo 9/23-24 1971

San Bernardino 6/22 1972

Tokyo 10/2-3 1972

New York 7/29 1973

New York 2/2 1975

Dallas 3/4 1975

Seattle 3/17 1975

Inglewood 3/25 1975

London 5/25 1975

Richfield 4/27 1977

Knebworth 8/11 1979

Frankfurt 6/30 1980

Post Zep Page

London 9/20-21 1983 Page ARMS Benefits

London 12/9 1984 The Firm

Costa Mesa 3/16 1985 The Firm

Detroit 5/2 1986 The Firm

Syracuse 11/4 1988 Page Solo

Tokyo 12/18 1993 Coverdale/Page

Auburn Hills 3/31 1995 Page/Plant

Sheffield 7/13/ 1995 Page/Plant

London 3/25 1998 Page/Plant

Pittsburgh 7/1 1998 Page/Plant

London 10/30 1998 Page/Plant

Tinley Park 6/24 2000 Page/Black Crowes

Post-Zep Plant

Montreal 9/8 1983

Dallas 9/22 1983

Colchester 1/30 1988

Philadelphia 5/23 1988

Muskogee 11/26 1990

Seattle 10/4 1993

Moira 10/31 1999

Luzern 7/24 2000

Goteborg 4/27 2001

Cardiff 10/9 2002

Bergen 4/26 2003

Cleveland 11/7 2004

London 4/4 2005

Staffordshire 8/21 2005

Post-Zep Jones

Cologne 11/9 1999

Pasadena 3/30 2000

Chicago 11/24 2001

Tokyo 8/29 2003

Alexandria 8/19 2004

I'm waiting to receive multiple sources of the 02 so I can revisit the performance and

try to arrive at a fair, more objective assessment.

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These are SOME of my favorite Led Zeppelin concerts:

Post-Zep Jones

Pasadena 3/30 2000

http://danvollmer.fotopic.net/c231685.html

;):P I've got a great story about this show.....(if on your recording Jones comes out and remarks about the mic stand being too high...and how it must be some practical joke about his being short......it was I that reached up and loosened his mic stand and lowered it when he could'nt :P He then asked if I wanted to go on the road w/ them.(jokingly of course) ...(I was literally no less than 5-10 ft away from him the whole show...it's a tiny place)....I need to get my ass to bed...will post it tomorrow. And Steve......I need a copy of that show!!! ;)

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^ nice shots Dan !! I saw Jonesy 9 days before that in Nashville. I was the closest to him, right up underneath him. His mic stand was good though...so the way I got to be involved with him was when I fired up a big fat fresh stinky one..and it wafted up to him and he remarked about it in between songs....about how some things NEVER change ! hahaha..I've got the show, my buddy recorded it...3-21-00....great show !!

I embarrassed Nick Beggs though...I shouted out Too Shy...when he was introduced....he didn't seem to like the Kajagoogoo reference.....I like that band !! hahagoogoo !! :lol:

Sweet!

I also saw him the night before on 3/29 in Springfield Va at Jaxx....up front and center again.

It was after the Pasadena show where I guess he felt the place was small enough for him to do a quick meet and great w/ the fans afterwards. A 40-50 yrd long line gathered at his gold colored tourbus. Everyone in line had gone back to their cars to grab Zep stuff for him to sign. People also only asked him Zep questions...which he did'nt seem too thrilled to be answering for the 1000'th time. He was barely looking up at people when they got to him. When my turn came I had him sign my copy of Zooma and also asked him if he could have the rest of the band sign....then he looked up to see me.....again. I asked about the tour, and working w/ DGM....and he smiled and spent a few minutes w/ me.....he seemed genuinely delighted that at least one person there seemed to give a crap about what he was doing now and did'nt mention Zeppelin once. A very laidback softspoken and highly aware/intelligent guy!!! :) Once he got back to the others in line, I stood next to the bus chatting w/ Hugh Manson, who I had met the night before at the merch table. He gave me his biz card.

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http://danvollmer.fotopic.net/c231685.html

;):P I've got a great story about this show.....(if on your recording Jones comes out and remarks about the mic stand being too high...and how it must be some practical joke about his being short......it was I that reached up and loosened his mic stand and lowered it when he could'nt :P He then asked if I wanted to go on the road w/ them.(jokingly of course) ...(I was literally no less than 5-10 ft away from him the whole show...it's a tiny place)....I need to get my ass to bed...will post it tomorrow. And Steve......I need a copy of that show!!! ;)

I need to call it a night too, but I've got a 2nd gen DVD-r from Pasadena. It runs 62 mins and sound quality is an 8 out of 10. It was filmed using a Hitachi 8mm camcorder.

I'll dig for it tomorrow. Wouldn't it be something if this tale was recorded for posterity?

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I need to call it a night too, but I've got a 2nd gen DVD-r from Pasadena. It runs 62 mins and sound quality is an 8 out of 10. It was filmed using a Hitachi 8mm camcorder.

I'll dig for it tomorrow. Wouldn't it be something if this tale was recorded for posterity?

If you have vid...I'm definitely in it!! ....the stage there is barely waist high off the ground. Ohhh, I'm salivating at the prospect of there being video of me lowering JPJ's mic stand. :banana::lol::lol:
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If you have vid...I'm definitely in it!! ....the stage there is barely waist high off the ground. Ohhh, I'm salivating at the prospect of there being video of me lowering JPJ's mic stand. :banana::lol::lol:

On at least one of his European tour dates in 1999 they had a single camera mounted

near the soundboard. I'm willing to bet he's got several pro-shot solo gigs in the vault.

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Well, I've pulled the film out of the vault. It runs 68 mins 26 secs. Skimmed thru it, and just prior to 'Crackback' he says "I can't get the angle of these mics, you know.

It's like..." (makes mocking pose)

Another interesting thing about this film is the taper goes onstage late in the show to get the crowd reaction. If your within the first three rows on the left side there's a good chance your on this tape.

At the end of the gig JPJ spots someone holding up a piece of paper, which he takes. It

reads in black marker "We want to sing Happy Birthday to Hugh!" JPJ leads everyone in a joyous rendition, before they all exit stage right.

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